Rick

Mike - what manifold were you using - sweedish?

And what are you using now?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Everything is detailed in my resto thread .

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I DO and so do Nissan!!!

GARETH T

but aint you both after different things?

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

pmsl

markk

iTrader: (2)

but alot of the big jap tuners martin take them off for a large single throttle body do they not ??

rapidcossie

For ULTIMATE power and nothng else a massive single throttle is prefered i think but as i said earlier, the individual throttles effect alot more than just throttle response.

Anyone ever seen how well a car revs on them

Rick

That is most proably due to the fact that the size of the throttle bodies is not large enough for a goven power level. A single TB is much cheaper to use as a replacement.

markk

iTrader: (2)

some how i dont really think that would be relevant when spending the sort of money it cost to get 'that' much power.

Rick

I think it would. It takes a lot of skill to make a multi barrel inlet. Why bother when you get the same figures on a much simpler cheaper design.

markk

iTrader: (2)

so if you are spending 15k on a new engine build and the builder said or another 2k you can have the best throttle system in the world, would you say no, ' i think i will just have a single throttle body' thanks ?

Rick

Lol, yea but it doesn't always work like that. A lot of people build their engines up over time. Then it may come apparant that the inlet is holding them back, so they put on an affordable one which will do the job very well. Customers like power figures, and the single inlet is going to give it to them.

markk

iTrader: (2)

i can see what your saying, but the people who are buying this inlet are not building there engines over a long period, they are having it done by a pro here and now as the cost is huge for it, and not for compeomise ( or so they think ) so is it one large , or four relativley large

if i thought that i would gain from ITB's then i would do it, but i dont, i dont need to pay somebody to do it i could do it myself, and the parts cost is not that great on the grand scheme of things.

only proving will tell !!

Rick

defo

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I think you will find that a lot of the Skyline tuners shy away from the ITB due to the fact that it needs an ECU capable of doing multiple maps, as it has to have a COMPLETELY different fuel and ignition map for every 10° of throttle opening - something only the top flight ECUs can do. Hence the ITBs of the Skyline's are scrapped (and also because I don't think they know how to map them with these on either).

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

WTF has an ITB set-up got to do with that?

Martin's would rev to 9k if he wasn't too scared (and currently revs to 8500), as does mine, so where did you get that info from ?

Stavros

ROFL@Revs faster with ITBs on it What relevance has that got to do with it Not unless the single TB was a massive restiction.
Its like that on a n/a engine with a shit inlet manifold, but turbos are a bit different

The reason they go to single throttle on skylines is NOTHING to do with mapping mike, all the ECUs can handle it, even the most basic ones.
Hardly any run a big single throttle unless going for MEGA power.

The 6x TBs are good for mega power anyhow, and bigger ones are available for em too.

Reason people often bin them off is its a shitload of complexity, esp with regard to the idle valves etc etc, esp when at that level the extra response from having the throttles closer to the inlet valves isnt really noticable.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

It is noticable if mapped properly

GARETH T

when is it noticable though? reving from idle with no load on the engine?

or from 4000 rpm, loaded up engine?

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

next people wil be saying single point injection is better than multipoint.
Personaly I think these should be fly by wire and vary the inlet throat size relative to engine speed and boost

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You only have to wait a few weeks and I will let you know the answer .

GARETH T

but you wont be doing a back to back test mike, as you wont try your new engine with a single throttle body,,, so the test is void

GARETH T

totally agree

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

if you can find a mapper
some people used to complain that an old 2764 chip was only £3 and they are not paying 150 for a chip ,what will they say now that you don't even get a chip just a download

GARETH T

i wanna try and find a mapper for my camless engine

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

Gareth camless engines have been out since noah was a lad they are known as 2 strokes

GARETH T

wasnt only steam engines around when you was a little one tony?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Gareth,
I keep TELLING you that there is VERY little difference between the two engines, so why do you keep mentioning this ?

Where do you think the HUGE difference is that's going to make the test null and void?

GARETH T

if theres a difference,,,, its void simple

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

Gareth if the test results are good are you going to get an M.I.S to go with your Pectel T6 or is your T6 wasted on your spec

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Well I think I know my engine well enough to know whether the manifold has made a difference .

GARETH T

it is a waste,,, as ! i mapped it,,,, and 2 i dont know how to map

rapidcossie

Mike and Stavros..

I have seen turbo'd 16v engines TRANSFORMED with the use of individual throttles.

The way the engine revs and how it makes its power.

Is this thread not discussing the advantages of ITBs?

Rick

Mike/Gareth

Mike - i am looking forward to the test very much I take it the MIS has fat runners? Have your ports been enlarged, or does the MIS taper to match them. How do the ports vary from the old engine?

However, Gareth is right - the test is void I realise you probably have little interst in putting it on a single body - just to see - but that would be the only true way.

With regars to the map needing to be changed every 10degrees - i have been a strong advocate of this for a long time - not the 10 degrees bit, but the fact that the throttle effectively changes the VE of the engine.

Rick.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Rick,
Obviously you didn't both looking at my post in the resto section, as mine is NOT an MIS manifold. The MIS manifold runs a single TB. Martin has basically bastardised his MIS manifold to have ITBs fitted (brave man ).

My inlet is totally port matched, as the Mountune one (designed for 300bhp) only had 24mm ports. These have now been matched and are the exact same as the head intake ports (27.5mm). Photos of all this machining are in my resto thread . With the ITBs open, there is a clear path straight to the valves .