JjCoDeX75

Hi guys

See bottom of the thread for the solution ......



I have reposted, as the other thread went a little off topic! (my fault)

I tried the voltage test that was suggested, and it the multimeter read 4.94 volts between pins 11 and 17. Unfortuntately it doesnt vary much with more or less throttle.

What we know -

1. I have just changed from a L6 to a L8 ECU.
2. I changed the TPS to a PF09 and swapped the outer wires on the sensor, as instructed.


So is the sensor knackered? Or am I testing the wrong pins?

Would I know on the running of the engine if the TPS was knackered?

HELP?

Thanks guys

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Measure the voltage between:

30 and 17
30 and 11
11 and 17

Do each one with no, part, full throttle

And post the 9 results up.

JjCoDeX75

Will do...

JjCoDeX75

Right - results as follows;


0 Throttle 1/2 Throttle 1 Throttle
30 and 17--------------0-----------------0---------------0
30 and 11-------------4.95-------------4.95------------4.95
11 and 17-------------4.95-------------4.95------------4.95



I am guessing that this isnt good

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No, thats not good, its just not working at all.

Possibly a broken wire on pin 17 between it and the ecu, or possibly you swapped the wrong wires over, if its not those, its the sensor fucked, I could meet you for a pint and try swapping it for mine if you want?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Actually, i dont think it can be a broken wire on pin 17, as then it would be open circuit and read as 0 between it and pin 11.

So looks like the tps is knackered, but that seems highly unliklely.

Have you tried a resistance meter on the TPS itself?

Did you do these tests at the TPS end or the ECU end?

Jim Galbally

ive had similar results from an incorrectly wired map sensor. it's possible you have the pins wrong on the TPS.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It IS the wrong way round actually I think Jim mate.

It should be 5v at pin 30, and he has 0 it would appear.


Try between pin 30 and ground JJ, and between pin 11 and ground, with both a resistance meter and a volt meter.

you should get

30 vs ground on volts = 5
30 vs ground on resist = >0
11 vs ground on volts = 0
11 vs ground on resist = 0

Richie.

iTrader: (5)

Ant use ?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

None at all mate, but im sure he will appreciate the effort

Richie.

iTrader: (5)

Pin 17 is Black with a Red trace (TPS signal into ECU)

Pin 30 is Red (5 Volt feed into TPS from ECU)

Pin 11 is Brown with Green trace (Earth/Negative feed to TPS from ECU)

Note; Pin 11 also feeds the Air and Coolant temp sensors with an ECU earth supply as well as the TPS.

JjCoDeX75

I will try -

Right results;


30 vs ground volts - 4.96
30 vs ground on resist - 0 (dont understand gauge, but didnt move)
11 vs ground on volts - 0
11 vs ground on resist - 08.7 (not sure on this one!)

When I apply throttle, none of the above figures change at all! They all remain constant



Strange that it is the wrong way round given that I specifically changed it. I changed the outer two wires - unless I put the socket on wrong way round (unlikely!)

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If 30 vs ground is giving you 5v, thats correct.
30 vs ground = open circuit, thats correct
11 vs gorund = 0v, thats correct
11 vs ground = very small, thats correct


If its not changing between 30 and ground or 11 and ground when you apply throttle, thats correct.



Sounds like it might be the TPS is broken.

JjCoDeX75

Thanks matey - that is useful. So by my reckoning, the figure between 11 and 17 for voltage should at least vary between throttle positions. All is pointing to a faulty sensor at this point then!

OR - a bad connection between the TPS and the ECU on the wiring......

That said - if it was a bad wire, you would expect the default position to be 0v, not 5v

JjCoDeX75

Hmmm

I bought the TPS from Mr Finch. I wonder if it is worth having a chat. I need to be sure before I discuss this with him

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

As you move the throttle:
reading between 11 and 17 should change
reading between 30 and 17 should change
reading between 30 and 11 should NOT change


Is pin 17 at 5v when versus ground?

If so, thats either:
short between 17 and 30
fucked TPS

Richie.

iTrader: (5)

Had a problem with my mates recently after we had the pins out of the plug. When we pushed the plug on it was pushing the pins back out

JjCoDeX75

So how does the car know when I go to WOT then?

Why is the car running well at all if the TPS is rodgered?

JJ

Jim Galbally

limited operation strategy

Jim Galbally

which i just rememebred that cossies don't have

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It thinks you are at full throttle all the time if its seeing 5v

Only Stu could tell you how his chip behaves at WOT all the time.

I would expect it to:
over fuel off boost
never going into closed loop


but im guessing here mate, the closed loop entry criteria may only be set against RPM vs MAP and not versus TPS at all.

Disabled Account

Cossie's can and will run even with the TPS * disconnected.......I only know this because I forgot to connect my TPS up once and for a couple of days I wondered why throtle response was "sluggish"............Had a close look and found the TPS dangeling in mid air, reconnected it and all was fine again.

* It is a dangerous condition to leave the TPS off, because IIRC Stu once commented on here that an engine could melt without the correct TPS signals reaching the ECU.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Biggest problem without it is that when you go WOT, it should increase fuelling, but it wont

JjCoDeX75

Hmmmmmm

This is concerning.

When I had the throttle on the bench, resistance deffo varied through the movement of the throttle - (this was disconnected from the loom etc)

I am incresingly concerned by the comments - I will probably take it to pieces again, and make sure that the connector is seated correctly etc.

Anyone know how to test the TPS when it is off the throttle body?

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Like you did mate!

JjCoDeX75

Doh!

Good job there is no damage!!!!

This is presuming that the tps is deffo not working

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

JJ

If you are free at the weekend, meet up with me, we can try swapping things about, my car will tell me if the TPS is working or not as I can see the actual value in degrees on my mapping software.

JjCoDeX75

Hi matey

I would like to , but I am in Newquay with wifey.

I have found the below in my Sierra Cosworth technical diagnosis information.....



Given the potential consequences, I am going to carry out full tests tonight.

Shame - I am going to have to learn to use a multimeter properly now to test resistance!!!!

JJ

JjCoDeX75

Also, to add,

given that the volt out for the centre position is 4.95 at WOT, mine basically thinks it is permanently at WOT. Given this, it is more likely to be running rich, rather than lean! This should somewhat limit the damage to the engine.....

Discuss

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes

you have a wideband dont you anyway mate?

JjCoDeX75

Yes, though sensor is fucked - still waiting for new one to arrive.

I must admit, I wouldnt describe the throttle as sluggish though -

I am having what can technically be described as a bad sensor day!

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

When are you back home from newquay mate?

JjCoDeX75

Not sure - but on Sunday I think

JJ

JjCoDeX75

B9KOS - You win the smug hat award!

It was exactly the same problem that you were having - the wires where they had been removed and replaced were being pushed out of the clip, and as such, the sensor was not being powered properly!

Lesson learnt.

Put in properly, and re-tested, and hey presto! All working fine!

Another lesson for all, if the Throttle switch aint working, the L8 defaults to 5v (ie WOT) This helps reduce engine damage in bad throttle situations!

Thats a bloody relief all things considered!

Now I may find out how efficient the closed loop system can be! I only hope that the over fuelling hasnt killed the brand spanking sensor!

JJ

JjCoDeX75

Sorry to ressurect this one guys, but I have still a few issues relating to idle only.

TPS is now working, but the setup is not quite right. I note that the base voltage should be 0.6. Mine is lower at 0.14. Do you think that this would throw the ECU a curve ball? My gut would say no, as it is low, not high, but we will see.

I am having trouble with the car running too rich at idle.

JJ