fordsportjay

iTrader: (6)

right,if for instance i had a car which had clearly been re-shelled as the shell has no number and has clearly never had a number stamped in it-is it better to leave it like that or get it stamped in.if its the latter does anyone know anyone who could do it-ie correct stamps.

its an old car that is on the list as damage repaired years ago,plus i have the old piece of floor with the original stamped number.

would you
a) get it stamped in properly
b) leave it blank but keep the piece of floor as proof of the reshell


anyone had any experience in this.im sure there are loads of rs turbo guys out there who have re-shelled their cars.

just curious.......the other post on here tonight has got me thinking
jay

fordsportjay

iTrader: (6)

surely someone..............

when i worked at a large insurance bodyshop and did a couple of re-shells-they were never stamped before going out,so i can only presume this is ok?

did a ford ka x2,pug 306,rover 400.and land rover discovery

Damo V

be careful... I would speak to plod about this, as if they ever check the car over as a matter of course, could end up causing you alot of grief..

They can and will stamp the floor for you

CharlieMac

Get in touch with yer local friendly plod office, a bit of advice though dont go on a busy weekend evening, they'll be too busy t give ya a decent answer! A mate o mine had this problem with a rallycar that he bought, he ended up having to register the car wi a Q reg cos he couldn't proove the origins of the shell that it was re shelled with. You are only entitled to use the original reg number on a brand new un-registered shell, whereas a second hand pre registered shell would mean you having to proove where the rest of the major components of the car came from in order to give the car an identity. The DVLA website tells ya all about it, I looked in to it when I was doing the same thing mysel, I still not got the car on the road so havent done it myself yet. Good luck wi the reshell m8

Jayen4

Hmmm....... Well,the last time I re-shelled a car,I used a 'previously registered' shell. I re-built the car and transferred the vin plates and other trim code plates etc,to the 'new' shell. I cut out the piece of floor pan,with the original chassis number on it and kept that to one side,before I cut the old shell up.
Now, when I put the car back on the road,I got a notice from the police,to take the car to their workshops,for inspection. They went over the car with a fine toothcomb and said that apart from the 'wrong' chassis number,on the floor,you would never know that it was a 're-shell'. The only advice they gave,was to trim the piece of floor,from the old shell and either weld or pop rivet it over the number on the donor shell. After that,they were completely happy.
Hope this helps you .....

P.S. It might help if you keep purchase receipts and some photographic evidence,that you have carried out a 're-shell' job and for what reason. You should have no bother,that way.....

Damo V

That information seems slightly misguided IMO, as that is "ringing"/concealing/changing the identity of the previously registered shell, which is illegal, regardless of whether the shell is stolen...

They SHOULD have pulled you up on it and put the car on a Q plate.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

the new shell, would have to be 'new'.

if used,then there should have been a chassis number in it,if there is not....why!

either stolen or been taken out so it cannot go back on the road.

As far as i know you cannot 'Q' plate a car in Liverpool anymore.

if you have a car which cannot be traced then it will be crushed.

better to get in touch with the DVLA Jay.

Jayen4

That information is NOT misguided !! It IS fact !!
I should have said that the car was a 'rolled' one and therefore a 'write off' AND the replament shell was bought from a licensed salvage yard.

So it was NOT ringing ! .......It was perfectly acceptable practice,then and still is,as far as I know ! And it should NOT have been put on a Q plate,as I had all the correct docs for the original car...... The police were happy with it,so that's all that mattered to me.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

as long has the new car has numbers on it then it should not go on a q-plate as they can determie the age of the shell, and also the donor parts going on it.

fordsportjay

iTrader: (6)

the car actually had the old piece of floor tacked in-which made me remove it to see if there was another number undeneath-which there isnt.so im wondering if it was done that way originally-the car was re-shelled many years ago by the look of things-probably when it was only 1/2 years old and if it was done by a proper bodyshop then it would not be registered as a re-shell on hpi as it wasnt written off.

i think ill put the bit back in the floor.[/quote]

-scar-

No mate - what you have done is actually Illegal. If you reshell a car in to a previously used shell then the car should be given a Q plate in accordance with DVLA rules. Plod have f-all to do with it as in the end of the day it is down to the DVLA.

As for reshelling in to a previously unused shell - this is acceptable and the vehicle can retain it's original VRM.

If you take the car to a DVLA testing centre (SVA centre) they wil check over your work and verify what you have done is fine and re-stamp the new shell for you.

Iain Mac

I agree with Damo, Dave and Scar.

There is no legitimate reason to change the VIN number on a used shell.

Use of a second-hand shell is expressly forbidden under the registration rules, and Plod should have noted the use of a secondhand shell and then DVLA would either allocate a Q plate or may allow the use of the reg number and identity applicable to that shell if you managed to convince them you had actually repaired that car with enough of its own parts (brakes, steering, suspension, etc)

It sounds like, in your case, you have benefitted from a mistake by a cop, but I doubt another one would take your explanation if the ID of the car ever came into doubt.

Anyone looking at a car with a chassis number welded (or pop-rivetted!!!) over another is going to ask "WHY?. Incidentally, the chassis number MUST be stamped into the structure of the car, with a seperate plate attached showing the same number in another location.

Back to the original question - if the shell is brand new it won't have a chassis number from the factory. You contact the Local Vehicle Licencing Office, tell them you have reshelled a car and produce the paperwork and receipts along with the aplication form. They issue a chassis number, and you (or your garage) stamp that in, get the car MOTd, take it for an SVA test - both of which are done by chassis number, not reg number and confirm to LVLO that the number is now stamped in - then they issue a reg number - either the original one, or an age-related one. Or a Q if they are unsatisifed.

fordsportjay

iTrader: (6)

the car has not been recently re-shelled or done by myself.it was done many years ago by the condition of the shell underneath-(rust/wear and tear etc).the car was cat d listed some 6/7 years ago but i know what damage was done then and can see the repairs to the shell,so it was reshelled before then-may try to trace the previous owners to get to the bottom of this

Iain Mac

Lots of pro bodyshops doing a reshell either wouldn't bother stamping the shell or just whacked the old number in. Neither is correct but it did/does go on.

JohnP001

Hmmmm, interesting. My Escort Cossie has two vin numbers stamped into the floor pan. The top one has XXXXX through it, and the bottom one which you can read matches with the Vin plate in the engine bay and with the engine block number. I've had the car for 6 years now, and all receipts and history from the previous owner. Should I be worried??

Jayen4

Look,Fordsportjay, What I have told you IS correct!! I don't care what all the others are saying,I have done enough re-shells in my time to KNOW what was acceptable! Over a 2 year period,I re-shelled about 6 or 7 cars,all done in the same manner and 3 of those were called in for inspection......ALL of them passed this inspection and I was told categorically,by the 'Stolen Vehicle Squad' that this particular method was perfectly acceptable. ...... So who knows best,you lot or the specialist division of the Police ??
If your car was done years ago,then it is perfectly O.K.

Jayen4

No,not at all. Someone has simply used a secondhand shell,to save money!!

fordsportjay

iTrader: (6)

sounds good to me-i thought it was ok as we did a pug 206 when i was working for a large insurance bodyshop and the insurance inspector told us to weld in the old chassis number,if i remember right.

ill leave it as i got it with the old piece fitted where the number should be-especially now im satisfied there is/was no number underneath.

how many mk2 escorts are there with no chassis number???????
how many mk3/4 escorts are there with welding repairs around the seat bases????????

Damo V

So long as the vin with XXXXX through it isnt stolen, though it still should have theoretically been out on a Q, but back then they prob werent too bothered/particular about it

Damo V

If you transfered the reg/v5 from the rolled vehicle onto another shell, with a different VIN, that is ringing, simple as...

Now had you transfered all your "rolled" bits over to the salvage shell and got the VIN/V5 sorted for the salvage shell and put on the salvage shell reg plates too thats ok...

Somebody somewhere has misled you

Jayen4

No,Damo,You're wrong !!

The reason why it's legal and above board to keep the 'rolled car's' I.D. is because the whole process revolves around how much of the original car is re-cycled into the 'salvage shell'. In my cases, I re-used around 85 /90% of the original cars parts.................. Therefore,the car is more 'original car' than 'salvage shell' car. Do you understand the distinction ??

Plus,using your ideaology, what if the salvage shell car was itself re-shelled and returned to the road ?? You can't have 2 cars running around,on the same I.D. can you ?? Now THAT is ringing !!
Am I clear ??

cossie350

My cossie is on a motorsport shell and hasnt ever had a floor number stamped onit my number is stamped on the front strut, never had any probs............

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

From DVLA website:

"In order to retain the original registration mark:

*

Cars and Car-Derived Vans must use:

The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or

A new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer/manufacturer (e.g. receipt)

And two other major components from the original vehicle - see list below

* Suspension (front & back)

* Axles (both)

* Transmission

* Steering Assembly

* Engine

If a second-hand chassis/monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a ESVA/SVA test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated."


The only way to get round this legitimately it seems is to make some body shell changes and register it as a kit car.

Jayen4

Yes,but what I was talking about,was from before the days of the SVA test !! If I remember correctly,the SVA test was only introduced in '04....

The current situation re the use of second hand shells is pure politics !! There was a right old furore,in the kit car world,where it looked like all the kit car manufacturers would be put out of business by these bloody stupid rules !! Luckily,after a lot of hoo ha,they got a concession,which was incorporated into the regulations.

If you read the item,that you took from the DVLA website,it sort of contradicts itself !! Some of the 'salvage shells' are very little damaged anyway. It was only the insurers going over the top (as per usual),which put these shells out there in the first place.

Think about it......... Why are cars written off ?? Because the insurers price all replacement parts at retail and calculate labour at the top rate,too!! Why is it,that small workshops can repair these cars properly and safely and still make a profit on them ?? Because they don't charge astronomical rates and where possible repair bent bodywork or use 'used' parts ! Even some of the insurance companies are now condoning the use of used parts,but they don't want you 'freelancing'.They want to control the whole system....bloody hypocrites!!

Where do you think all the salvage vehicles come from ?? From the Insurers,of course ! So they are very well aware of what goes on........ Like I said,they are just playing politics,now !

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

But these rules would be applied to a car TODAY if it was found to have non matching VIN's.

Today the only way round this is the new shell route or kit car route where you will end up with an "age related registration" that you can transfer your oldplate to.

Also there is much greyness with the word "new" sometime meaning "as new" or "reconditioned to as new standard". The same goes with "unmodified" being interpreted to mean structurally unchanged, ie bodykits and a weld in cage ok as they could be removed in theory, or with the shell being new from ford as in the motorsport shells.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

not what i got told years ago.

as long as the new used shell has numbers in it,so they can determine the age,and as long as you use most parts of the donor vehicle,then it will go on an age related plate.

if no numbers in the shell,they don't know the year,so, it will go on a q plate.

i think it is the law for all cars to have chassis numbers in them too.

not sure about all these older cars with no numbers in them.

Jayen4

Yes,it's all getting un-neccessarily (sp) complicated !! That's why our insurances are going through the roof !

cossie350

Um im really confused now Is my motorsport shell with the vin stamped on the strut ok then

-scar-

Yes it is stamped in a structural location. They sometime also stamp them on the B pillar.

As warrenpenalver and Damo have aslready stated - the rules in a nutshell - reshell with a used shell and it goes on a Q - use a new shell and you can keep your VRM and VIN.

DUDE_SWEET_FRST

not illegal to cut the chassis stamp from a car, but it is illegal to put it on another

Damo V

Dont quite see how you worked that out but never mind... the DVLA website has proved I am right