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Yb Running problem when hot

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Old Feb 6, 2013 | 11:54 PM
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Default Yb Running problem when hot

3 hours ago at 11pm I finished my 3 door 1.6gl 1986 sleeper with a cosworth yb engine and drivetrain from a sapphire 4x4. Im documenting the build, so expect expect a project thread soon.
After 20 minutes of perfect running except for a 1500 rpm idle, the engine starts to run like its not getting enough fuel above 3500rpm. It's stuttering and is cutting out. If I turn it off and start it again without waiting it runs ok for about 5 minutes and then it displays the same problem.
The engine and ecu are oem and no modifications have been done to it. The fuel pump is good enough for 300hp.
I tested 2 wiring harnesses, so that shouldn't be a problem.
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 07:02 AM
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At a guess I would say it is the ect sensor
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 10:21 AM
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When you give it some throttle do you still see the same bad running otherwise it could be stationary valve playing up . ( there you mention high start up RPM )

Steven
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 04:28 PM
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I think I found the problem. The previous owner of the engine/car admitted that he got the same problem after changing the MAP sensor with a similar one from Fiat Coupe Turbo.
So I probably need a new 2bar MAP sensor Marelli APS02/03. As I understand it's no longer available should I look for a replacement or try to find an original one?
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Old Feb 7, 2013 | 09:55 PM
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I have a replacement for a year now, no problems yet.
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Old Feb 8, 2013 | 11:18 AM
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I've just put a map sensor from my spare Ghibli engine. It works perfectly, the idle is fine, there's no more smell of gasoline and the stuttering above 3500 is gone.
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Old Feb 8, 2013 | 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Heypacha
I've just put a map sensor from my spare Ghibli engine. It works perfectly, the idle is fine, there's no more smell of gasoline and the stuttering above 3500 is gone.
But is it the same? Fitting a different kind will have a different scale, so can potentially destroy your engine.

Martin
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Old Feb 8, 2013 | 01:01 PM
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Do you know the correct model number for the 4x4 Sierra?
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Old Feb 8, 2013 | 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
the only difference as stated is that one will measure to 3 bar (absolute pressure = approx. 2 bar above atmospheric pressure) and the other up to 5 bar.

generally, map sensors are supplied with a voltage (say 5V) and then their resistance changes with pressure so that the voltage measured across them varies, say from near enough 0V (0.25V) (very high resistance) at near enough 0 bar absolute (which is a vacuum, so created by the sucking of the engine against a closed throttle) to 5V (4.75V) at 3 or 5 bar (very low resistance).

so for a 3 bar sensor, you have a scale of 5/3 = 1.67 V / bar
and for a 5 bar sensor, you have a scale of 5/5 = 1 V / bar

your ecu is a digital device and needs to convert this device into a digital signal made up of 1's and 0's. this is done by a digital to analogue (d/a) converter, and depending on the ecu, this converter has a certain resolution, e.g. 16 bit. this resolution means how many 1's and 0's the digital number can be made up of. 1 bit can be either 1 or 0, 2 bit can be 00, 01, 10 or 11, etc.

therefore for a 2 bit d/a converter, you can see that the voltage signal can only be divided into 4 numbers so it cannot really see the difference between the 1V (approximately 1 bar on a 5 bar / 5V) and 1.2 bar / V or whatever.

therefore if you are only running 2 bar boost on a 5 bar sensor, the resolution of the d/a converter means what you are trying to measure will not be as accurate as if you were using a 3 bar sensor.

so it should be clear that you should use a sensor appropriate to the boost range that you are running.

having said that, i don't know what the resolution of the d/a converter is in a ford or marelli ecu. if it's 16 bit, you can see that the range can be divided into 2^16 (over 65,000) so it shouldn't make a lot of difference what sensor you use. if it's just 8 bit, this goes down to just 256 (still just 0.02 V or 0.02 bar on a 5 bar sensor which is still good enough). 4 bit is just 16, so 0.3 bar which is not really good enough.

hope this helps. if any mistakes spotted by anyone, please feel free to correct me (values used are not totally accurate, just to give an idea), and voltage values do not necessarily apply to any particular car, just an otline of the principle.
If I understand ForeigneRS correctly all the map aps02/03 sensors that are 2bar have the same scale. So in theory they should all work if they fit. I previously had a 2.5 bar sensor from a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo that had a different scale.

I also think I found the correct aps 02/03 marelli sensor number for the sierra cosworth: 1793
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