Mgore

Hi Guys,
I recently purchased a 2012 Mondeo Titanium x Sport 2.0 and have an issue which has seen it back to the dealers 4 times without any resolution!
The problem is that the car starts fine, I set off, then as I depress the clutch to go into second gear, the engine revs rise (I gather this is an anti stall mechanism?), but once in second and I depress the throttle to accelerate away, the power just drops off and the car lurches! I can drive through it by driving like an 18 year old, but I'm more interested in a smooth drive with reasonable economy!
This fault is driving me mad and I have tried to reject the car with the dealers, but they have refuted the issue.
They have tried the following:
Re-installed the latest software, replaced the fuel filter (claiming the car has had 'bad fuel' sometime in the past), RE- RE applied the latest software, and checked for non existent error codes!
I have read elsewhere that this could be the anti stall, or the traction control system that reduces how much power you can put down in first and second gear which would explain why the fault is only evident in the bottom gears?
Please help SOMEONE!! I don't want to be stuck with a car that I hate to drive as it is otherwise fantastic! I need an answer soon as I cant get hold of Ford Technical??
Thanks in advance!!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

2nd on the Mk4 is a little on the high side. so it does require a few more revs than you'd expect. What RPM are you changing up at?

Mgore

Hi Dan,
Thanks for getting back to me.
I'm changing at 'usual revs', and as the revs rise anyway as part of the 'anti stall', its probably around 1000 -1200 RPM.
The hesitation feels as if the ignition has been cut though, its that severe!

Carlos-Titx

I'd say that's a bit low. I've had this in mine (2007) when changing very low revs. Not as bad as what you explained but I change up at 1500 or more and no issues.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I'd definitely hold onto the revs past 1500rpm. Not ranting it, but changing up higher than you'd expect. I often need to dip into 1st, when I'd have expected 2nd to have been ok (pulling away from a slow pace). It's a foible of the car.

Mgore

Thanks Dan, but having tried the car on the way home tonight, revs are nearer to 1800 - 2000 rpm, but still get this big 'lurch' as power drops off as I change up from first to second.
I can drive through it, but that means steaming along, spinning wheels and revving the motor! I've had two courtesy cars while the mondeo has been in (for over 4 weeks in total!), neither of which exhibited the slightest hesitation through the gears (neither were Mondeo's in fairness!) and in over 30 years of motoring and 13 years in the motor trade, have I driven a car this annoying!
The problem seems to be that as I depress the clutch in first and go to change into second, the revs rise on their own (I tried taking my foot off the throttle and it still does it, but ONLY in first to second?), then once in second, revs still around 1800 - 2000, the engine just drops off!! Could it be an issue with the 'fly by wire' throttle pedal or the throttle body itself?

The next step according to the dealer is that I need an independent engineers report!
I'd rather speak to Ford technical direct, but nobody seems to have their contact details??
I feel a bill coming up...!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

I checked mine last night and I change up between 2-2.5K, and do so smoothly, without any hesitation, jerkiness, or ranting of the engine.

I'd strongly suggest you drive a different Mondeo to make sure it's your car that has the issue (which it does sound like) Have the mechanics at Ford not taken the car out? Surely if it was as pronounced as they say, then it would be obvious there was a fault?

Mgore

Thanks Dan,
I have owned two mondeo's in the past and had none of these issues?
A friend of mine has a 140 Zetec, and has none of these issues although I've not driven it myself..
Even if I try with higher revs, I've ascertained that the 'jerk' is still there, just not as noticeable.
As for the Ford main dealers it went into last week, I really don't know if they road tested it, but there weren't many miles on the trip!
I was told they checked it on the meter, but as there were no error codes, didn't believe there were any problems! It did take a full week though!!

I am seriously considering getting it on a dyno as my last car, a Mazda 6 130 ts2 seemed a lot more powerful than this 163?? As a 'sports' edition I would have expected a nippier drive!

Thanks once again for the advice Dan.

BTW, what sort of fuel economy are you seeing? If I take it really easy, I used to get 40+ mpg, but since the ECU had the latest firmware / mapping software applied, it's now closer to 35!

Carlos-Titx

I get about 39 around town. 50 or more on motorway.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

I'm averaging 36mpg which is mainly country lanes and town driving. I get over 40 on a gentle cruise. But mine's a humble 140.

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't happen in a 1.8, isn't that right Dan :-D

black_jack

The mk4 163ps is a bit "gutless" and you have to "thrash" it in 1st so it does not drop out of the power in 2nd/ or there is a "knack" to it, the 140ps has a little bit better bottom-end /midrange power/torque so is not quite as bad, if you get the car remapped it can give it better torque low-down which also may mean less gearchanges and it may pull the next gear up (eg 2nd instead of 1st at junctions if the car is "rolling")

A tuning box can also boost bottom end power (often more than a remap) these often get negative press but i used one for years with no problem and it made a massive difference to the low- down torque (you get what you pay for with tuning boxes, mine cost Ł330, a Ł7 would not have worked so well)

Carlos-Titx

Noticed mine is gutless although its a 2.0 when changing at the revs you say.

There was nothing there in 1st or 2nd at those revs.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

You're right, he wouldn't have these problems, as the car would be in the garage with a host of other issues!

the_frozen_one

iTrader: (1)

left the door open for that one

Mgore

Thanks for all your feedback guys, its really useful.

As an update, Ive just been on a trip down to Cornwall for the week, and the car has returned the following - Motorway journey, non stop from Merseyside to Peranporth, a miserable 42 MPG. That was at a steady cruise controlled 65 mph too. It averaged 35 pottering around Cornwall, and then returned a miserable 39.5 MPG on the return home today. again non stop at 65 - 70 Mph! Not impressive figures for an oil burner!

The hesitation is still there, and hasn't improved with the run (so bang goes my theory of a blocked particulate filter!), but it is still totally unpredictable and I even detected some hesitation in third which I've not felt previously?

The next step has to be an AA or RAC engineers report unless anyone thinks its worth putting it on a dyno to see where the drop off occurs??

Still frustrated...!!

Carlos-Titx

I'd go with the dyno option myself.

They ain't great figures.

You live in merseyside? River side racing (formerly vanquish performance) have a dyno or ring stu at MSD in Blackpool (best option IMO.)

Mgore

Thanks for the advice Carlos

black_jack

Pottering about on the motorway at 65mph (probably in top) is not going to clear out the DPF - whats the revs at that speed? - under 2k?. To give it a proper "italian-tune-up" involves red-lining it through the gears, driving it hard, for long enough to get the DPF hot

It is well known that using the cruise control has a negative effect on MPG, it cannot anticipate traffic etc, it opens the throttle wide going uphill, etc etc 6th may be a bit high for 65mph, (engine may be "out of the power") 5th may be better, especially uphill, if you change down early before a steep hill, you will use less throttle/ therefore less fuel, if you lift off the throttle early when you know you must slow down and stop, you will use less fuel, and braking less means less momentum is wasted, using the heater can take a lot of heat out of the engine in winter (diesels are more efficient when hot - and the MPG goes down when warming up/ running cool) and the AC can waste fuel around town in summer (less so at a steady speed)

If the avarage MPG is low (due to driving arownd town etc) it will give a low avarage reading, if you reset it before a long "economy" run the figure displayed will go up

Often modifications (remaps etc) can improve the mpg as well as the performance on a turbo-diesel

Fords claimed power is at the crank, in PS - the dyno will only read the power at the wheels, and flywheel power is "guessed" every different dyno might get a different reading, even the same dyno morning to afternoon may give a different reading, unless the measured power is very bad/ low, the dyno results will be meaningless and only useful for before/ after comparisons on the same dyno (for remaps/ modifications/ setup etc) dyno time / runs can be expensive - best to get a remap done at the same time

Carlos-Titx

Cruise control won't open the throttle fully uphill. If it did you would speed past what its set at.
Using it correctly won't make any difference to your mpg. Unless you resume it from 40mph and it was set at 70mph.

black_jack

The cruise control simply opens/ adjusts the throttle to maintain its set speed - if full throttle is required (eg - up a very steep hill) it will use full throttle to reach/ maintain its set speed

In tests it made a difference in MPG (the MPG was worse when cruise control was used)

Churtz

Sorry to drag up an old post. Did you ever find a resolution to this? Mine does exactly the same!!!

Thanks. Matt

Mgore

Hi Matt, after a lot of aggravation, and getting nowhere with Ford, I finally managed to get the car looked at by Peoples Ford in Liverpool who kindly updated the ECU software to the (then) latest version and the transformation was phenomenal!
the car was faster, more responsive and most importantly of all, there was no trace of hesitation.
based on my experience, that would be the first thing I would suggest if you have the same issue?
good luck!

lardyb

Hi Mgore.
Just been reading through the thread and would be interested to know how much Peoples charged you.

I have had Mazda 6 185 sports for the last 10 years and remember the first one had a similar issue to this, although nowhere near as pronounced. Got the same from the dealer...............'don't know what you're talking about'. Mind you EGR and DPF issues were mind blowing.
Despite the fact that I have been driving and riding bikes for over 40 years averaging over 30k miles?

My Mondeo is the 2.0 140, (with a high mileage due to time and finances), and it's an absolute slug so was wondering whether it was worth the cost for my sanity.

Thanks in advance.
Barry