Head Gasket choice
28-12-2011, 09:24 PM
#1
ST170
Thread Starter
Head Gasket choice
Hi all,
I've noticed this has been mentioned a few times before but just wanted some fresh opinions.
Going to be running a 1.6 CVH with +1.5mm Accralites, Hybrid T3/4 turbo at 1bar/14psi. Hoping to achieve 240bhp~
Got some ARP head stud and nuts and already have a Payen gasket kit. I've been recommended to look at getting a Cometic or a Spesso HG.
Has anyone used the above combination with good reliabilty? A lot of people recommend standard gasket and bolts but seeing as I have ARP maybe it's worth getting one of the above?
Head will be skimmed ofc.
Many thanks
I've noticed this has been mentioned a few times before but just wanted some fresh opinions.
Going to be running a 1.6 CVH with +1.5mm Accralites, Hybrid T3/4 turbo at 1bar/14psi. Hoping to achieve 240bhp~
Got some ARP head stud and nuts and already have a Payen gasket kit. I've been recommended to look at getting a Cometic or a Spesso HG.
Has anyone used the above combination with good reliabilty? A lot of people recommend standard gasket and bolts but seeing as I have ARP maybe it's worth getting one of the above?
Head will be skimmed ofc.
Many thanks
28-12-2011, 09:32 PM
#3
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Standard RS turbo head gasket is usually best.
The MLS type head gaskets (Cometic) require a near mirror finish on both the head surface and block surface. Most shops do not provide the required surface finish for success with Cometic gaskets.
The MLS type head gaskets (Cometic) require a near mirror finish on both the head surface and block surface. Most shops do not provide the required surface finish for success with Cometic gaskets.
28-12-2011, 10:41 PM
#4
ST170
Thread Starter
I'm tempted to sway for the Cometic gasket providing we can get a good enough finish on the head and block. Burton have the following on the product page: A surface finish of 50 microinches or finer is recommended for a proper gasket seal. Anything rougher may result in gasket failure.
I'm no metalworker so have no idea what that means in real world terms, We have a few local engine services places that I can speak with to see what they say.
Otherwise I'll go with standard Payen, Spesso seems far too rare to acquire.
I'm no metalworker so have no idea what that means in real world terms, We have a few local engine services places that I can speak with to see what they say.
Otherwise I'll go with standard Payen, Spesso seems far too rare to acquire.
29-12-2011, 07:16 AM
#7
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With 1bar boost no need for uprated gasket, standard is fine. How ever i dont believe you will reach 240bhp with 1,6cvh and 1 bar. 1,5bar+ maybe and then metallic (Cometic) gasket is always good joice.
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29-12-2011, 08:21 AM
#9
ST170
Thread Starter
It's the same turbo you'd find on an RS500 Sierra, I don't see why it shouldn't make 240bhp 
around 200 would be plenty anyways.
I don't mind investing money where it's needed but if a standard gasket will do just fine then I don't see the point in spending another £90 on a headgasket plus all work associated with getting the faces to a good enough standard for the Cometic one.
around 200 would be plenty anyways.I don't mind investing money where it's needed but if a standard gasket will do just fine then I don't see the point in spending another £90 on a headgasket plus all work associated with getting the faces to a good enough standard for the Cometic one.
29-12-2011, 10:55 AM
#12
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Last edited by bomsch; 29-12-2011 at 10:59 AM. Reason: someone is wrong on the internet :)
29-12-2011, 11:06 AM
#13
ST170
Thread Starter
If it's 1.5mm overbore the standard gasket should still fit?
The bore on a standard gasket is 86.7mm and the new pistons will be 81.5mm.
And We're going to use a Kent CVH36, not a Piper cam. Either way, we'll see how much power it will make sooner or later, just want to make the right gasket choice.
The bore on a standard gasket is 86.7mm and the new pistons will be 81.5mm.
And We're going to use a Kent CVH36, not a Piper cam. Either way, we'll see how much power it will make sooner or later, just want to make the right gasket choice.
29-12-2011, 12:16 PM
#15
PassionFord Post Troll
standard all the way mate , fact , christian and beccys one was 360bhp and ran a standard head gasket to my knwoledge - from memory and looking at the pics aynway
29-12-2011, 12:58 PM
#17
ST170
Thread Starter
Cool, thanks guys.
Will use the Paen gasket and ARP studs. Will be making sure to re-torque after each heat cycle, want to give this engine every chance of success
Will use the Paen gasket and ARP studs. Will be making sure to re-torque after each heat cycle, want to give this engine every chance of success
31-12-2011, 08:50 PM
#21
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
I consider 100 hp per cylinder low power.
If you have ARP studs use them - what type of engine fasteners are used on endurance race engines? Guess what ARP
If stretch to yield fasteners were better they would be used on all types of racing engines where cost is no object.
Saying the ARP studs that most racing engines use cause failures is just nonsense.
I have even seen Cometic gaskets called shite - totally nonsense. These are fantastic gaskets - when used correctly (super fine surface finish on head and block).
We have had this discussion many times before.
02-01-2012, 04:49 PM
#23
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Hello Karlos,
Since the escort cvh turbo is a very low cost car for beginners to "do it themselves", there is a much higher probability that installation procedures are not followed correctly.
This leads to a high percentage of "failures".
Not near as many "inexperienced" or first timers attempting to modify Cosworth engines or other higher value builds - thus less failures.
Just my opinion of course.
Cheers
Since the escort cvh turbo is a very low cost car for beginners to "do it themselves", there is a much higher probability that installation procedures are not followed correctly.
This leads to a high percentage of "failures".
Not near as many "inexperienced" or first timers attempting to modify Cosworth engines or other higher value builds - thus less failures.
Just my opinion of course.
Cheers
02-01-2012, 09:08 PM
#25
ST170
Thread Starter
I don't wish to start some kind of argument but has anyone actually proven that the ARP bolts are the cause of failure?
I've had a look and can't see anything and as always there are lots of conflicting statements.
I personally (and the chaps at the workshop) don't see why if the ARP bolts are correctly torqued and re-checked after the first few heat cycles, why they would cause it to fail? Yes the two halves of the engine are different materials but the ARPs should be strong enough to keep it in place and provide enough clamp to keep it all together under pressure.
I've had a look and can't see anything and as always there are lots of conflicting statements.
I personally (and the chaps at the workshop) don't see why if the ARP bolts are correctly torqued and re-checked after the first few heat cycles, why they would cause it to fail? Yes the two halves of the engine are different materials but the ARPs should be strong enough to keep it in place and provide enough clamp to keep it all together under pressure.
02-01-2012, 09:52 PM
#28
I don't wish to start some kind of argument but has anyone actually proven that the ARP bolts are the cause of failure?
I've had a look and can't see anything and as always there are lots of conflicting statements.
I personally (and the chaps at the workshop) don't see why if the ARP bolts are correctly torqued and re-checked after the first few heat cycles, why they would cause it to fail? Yes the two halves of the engine are different materials but the ARPs should be strong enough to keep it in place and provide enough clamp to keep it all together under pressure.
I've had a look and can't see anything and as always there are lots of conflicting statements.
I personally (and the chaps at the workshop) don't see why if the ARP bolts are correctly torqued and re-checked after the first few heat cycles, why they would cause it to fail? Yes the two halves of the engine are different materials but the ARPs should be strong enough to keep it in place and provide enough clamp to keep it all together under pressure.
But as the stock bolts are proven for over 350bhp I see no reason to use anything else, what is there to gain?! lol
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