rebuild suggestions (on a budget!)
21-02-2010, 10:17 PM
#1
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rebuild suggestions (on a budget!)
Hi peeps looking for some thoughts and suggestions regarding the following from todays adventure.
After finally getting my new hybrid turbo fitted to my S2 (now running 15psi up from a perfectly manageable 10psi on std smokey T3) I managed to get to a track day today however only managed a couple of laps with the car feeling progressively slower than before until pulling into the pits and boom head gasket failure and loss of oil pressure. Yet to find out the damage but suspect gasket is fooked anyway although the car never came close to overheating and had managed over 100 miles the day before though,
gutted!
Am hopefull that I can strip the head and block and get them machined and replace the head gasket (was a proper Ford one I had used) however as mentioned without knowing the full extent of the damage I won't know the cost involved yet so planning on doing as much myself as possible.
So because it needs fully stripped now my mind turns to considering a budget rebuild because I think it needs a new FMIC anyway due to running the standard one which may not have helped matters so need to factor this into the rebuild costs.
For now my linitial ist is as follows;
FMIC & fans
Cometic HG
New head bolts
Skim head & deck block
Remove pistons possibly replace rings and bearings and new cap bolts
New or refurbished oil pump?
New sump and gasket (old one beginning to seep)
Have crank checked and reground if necessary
Ideally new or steel rods if £ allows
Check and reface flywheel if necessary or replace
Low profile trolley jack (old one broken anyway)
Engine stand possibly
Silicone coolant hoses
Dont think I wanna go ZVH because its more effort and cost and think that due to the torque increase a new clutch and eventually new box will be needed which all means even more £££££ so would like to keep it as a 1.6CVH for as long as possible.
CheeRS
After finally getting my new hybrid turbo fitted to my S2 (now running 15psi up from a perfectly manageable 10psi on std smokey T3) I managed to get to a track day today however only managed a couple of laps with the car feeling progressively slower than before until pulling into the pits and boom head gasket failure and loss of oil pressure. Yet to find out the damage but suspect gasket is fooked anyway although the car never came close to overheating and had managed over 100 miles the day before though,
gutted!Am hopefull that I can strip the head and block and get them machined and replace the head gasket (was a proper Ford one I had used) however as mentioned without knowing the full extent of the damage I won't know the cost involved yet so planning on doing as much myself as possible.
So because it needs fully stripped now my mind turns to considering a budget rebuild because I think it needs a new FMIC anyway due to running the standard one which may not have helped matters so need to factor this into the rebuild costs.
For now my linitial ist is as follows;
FMIC & fans
Cometic HG
New head bolts
Skim head & deck block
Remove pistons possibly replace rings and bearings and new cap bolts
New or refurbished oil pump?
New sump and gasket (old one beginning to seep)
Have crank checked and reground if necessary
Ideally new or steel rods if £ allows
Check and reface flywheel if necessary or replace
Low profile trolley jack (old one broken anyway)
Engine stand possibly
Silicone coolant hoses
Dont think I wanna go ZVH because its more effort and cost and think that due to the torque increase a new clutch and eventually new box will be needed which all means even more £££££ so would like to keep it as a 1.6CVH for as long as possible.
CheeRS
22-02-2010, 09:34 AM
#2
Did you just turn your boost from 10psi to 15psi without having it setup by a tuner?? If so that will be why it failed 
FMIC & fans
Cometic HG No stay Ford proven for 350bhp+
New head bolts
Skim head & deck block
Remove pistons possibly replace rings and bearings and new cap bolts Certainly bearings as it's about £90 for a full ACL set!
New or refurbished oil pump? New
New sump and gasket (old one beginning to seep)
Have crank checked and reground if necessary
Ideally new or steel rods if £ allows No point getting new stock rods, but steel one if you can yes, although you will need your pistons machining to fit, or new forged pistons
Check and reface flywheel if necessary or replace
Low profile trolley jack (old one broken anyway)
Engine stand possibly
Silicone coolant hoses
FMIC & fans
Cometic HG No stay Ford proven for 350bhp+
New head bolts
Skim head & deck block
Remove pistons possibly replace rings and bearings and new cap bolts Certainly bearings as it's about £90 for a full ACL set!
New or refurbished oil pump? New
New sump and gasket (old one beginning to seep)
Have crank checked and reground if necessary
Ideally new or steel rods if £ allows No point getting new stock rods, but steel one if you can yes, although you will need your pistons machining to fit, or new forged pistons
Check and reface flywheel if necessary or replace
Low profile trolley jack (old one broken anyway)
Engine stand possibly
Silicone coolant hoses
22-02-2010, 11:17 AM
#4
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The car had been setup in Dec by Sitech and was flying on the standard T3 but got smokey after ragging it on the track about a week later.
Rebuilt the head in Jan as a precaution and fitted new Ford gasket, in hindsight should have skimmed head and decked the block then.
After that went up to Sitech again for a check over to see if things were good and they were but new turbo required which they fitted on Sat morning before the track day. Simon took it for a run and said everyhting seemed ok and the engine had been proven to be very strong before. Dunno what he did as I never went with him on the run but he did mention that he turned the boost up.
Drove it 100 miles home and went very well but at idle the oil light was flickering and seemed like it wanted to cut out. Noticed there was oil spilled at the corner of the rocker by the filler cap and so replaced the cap with a new one thinking that perhaps the increase in boost was lifting the cap.
On Sun morning waiting to get into the track the oil light flickered again and cut out at idle and would not start without a jump so perhaps the starter wiring is showing its age but was never a problem before the new turbo was fitted . I turned the idle speed up to 950 ish which stopped the oil light flicking and left it running with the fan swtiched on and the temp gauge read at the bottom of the normal (as usual) so everything seemed ok.
Ran a couple of warm up laps and after the green flag I went for it but the power was not there like before and felt progressively slower so pulled into pits and it began knocking slightly and the rest you know. Simon was there on the day and mentioned that the cooling system could have over pressurised hence the result.
Tried starting later once back at the garage and the starter relay just clicked away so its parked up waiting to be stripped, cheeRS.
Rebuilt the head in Jan as a precaution and fitted new Ford gasket, in hindsight should have skimmed head and decked the block then.
After that went up to Sitech again for a check over to see if things were good and they were but new turbo required which they fitted on Sat morning before the track day. Simon took it for a run and said everyhting seemed ok and the engine had been proven to be very strong before. Dunno what he did as I never went with him on the run but he did mention that he turned the boost up.
Drove it 100 miles home and went very well but at idle the oil light was flickering and seemed like it wanted to cut out. Noticed there was oil spilled at the corner of the rocker by the filler cap and so replaced the cap with a new one thinking that perhaps the increase in boost was lifting the cap.
On Sun morning waiting to get into the track the oil light flickered again and cut out at idle and would not start without a jump so perhaps the starter wiring is showing its age but was never a problem before the new turbo was fitted . I turned the idle speed up to 950 ish which stopped the oil light flicking and left it running with the fan swtiched on and the temp gauge read at the bottom of the normal (as usual) so everything seemed ok.
Ran a couple of warm up laps and after the green flag I went for it but the power was not there like before and felt progressively slower so pulled into pits and it began knocking slightly and the rest you know. Simon was there on the day and mentioned that the cooling system could have over pressurised hence the result.
Tried starting later once back at the garage and the starter relay just clicked away so its parked up waiting to be stripped, cheeRS.
22-02-2010, 11:27 AM
#5
The car had been setup in Dec by Sitech and was flying on the standard T3 but got smokey after ragging it on the track about a week later.
Rebuilt the head in Jan as a precaution and fitted new Ford gasket, in hindsight should have skimmed head and decked the block then.
After that went up to Sitech again for a check over to see if things were good and they were but new turbo required which they fitted on Sat morning before the track day. Simon took it for a run and said everyhting seemed ok and the engine had been proven to be very strong before. Dunno what he did as I never went with him on the run but he did mention that he turned the boost up.
Drove it 100 miles home and went very well but at idle the oil light was flickering and seemed like it wanted to cut out. Noticed there was oil spilled at the corner of the rocker by the filler cap and so replaced the cap with a new one thinking that perhaps the increase in boost was lifting the cap.
On Sun morning waiting to get into the track the oil light flickered again and cut out at idle and would not start without a jump so perhaps the starter wiring is showing its age but was never a problem before the new turbo was fitted . I turned the idle speed up to 950 ish which stopped the oil light flicking and left it running with the fan swtiched on and the temp gauge read at the bottom of the normal (as usual) so everything seemed ok.
Ran a couple of warm up laps and after the green flag I went for it but the power was not there like before and felt progressively slower so pulled into pits and it began knocking slightly and the rest you know. Simon was there on the day and mentioned that the cooling system could have over pressurised hence the result.
Tried starting later once back at the garage and the starter relay just clicked away so its parked up waiting to be stripped, cheeRS.
Rebuilt the head in Jan as a precaution and fitted new Ford gasket, in hindsight should have skimmed head and decked the block then.
After that went up to Sitech again for a check over to see if things were good and they were but new turbo required which they fitted on Sat morning before the track day. Simon took it for a run and said everyhting seemed ok and the engine had been proven to be very strong before. Dunno what he did as I never went with him on the run but he did mention that he turned the boost up.
Drove it 100 miles home and went very well but at idle the oil light was flickering and seemed like it wanted to cut out. Noticed there was oil spilled at the corner of the rocker by the filler cap and so replaced the cap with a new one thinking that perhaps the increase in boost was lifting the cap.
On Sun morning waiting to get into the track the oil light flickered again and cut out at idle and would not start without a jump so perhaps the starter wiring is showing its age but was never a problem before the new turbo was fitted . I turned the idle speed up to 950 ish which stopped the oil light flicking and left it running with the fan swtiched on and the temp gauge read at the bottom of the normal (as usual) so everything seemed ok.
Ran a couple of warm up laps and after the green flag I went for it but the power was not there like before and felt progressively slower so pulled into pits and it began knocking slightly and the rest you know. Simon was there on the day and mentioned that the cooling system could have over pressurised hence the result.
Tried starting later once back at the garage and the starter relay just clicked away so its parked up waiting to be stripped, cheeRS.
Low oil pressure at idle, knocking, oil out of filler cap, and progressively down on power are all classic signs of a heavily worn bottom end
22-02-2010, 11:45 AM
#6
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Thanks Karlos, I want to get my spec up to around 220bhp eventually with new management saw a package for Wossner steel rods and forged pistons including rings and ARP 2000 bolts for the big end for £900 on ebay earlier today. Will have a look for steel rods, bearings and rings and bolts separately. How much roughly is it to machine the pistons to accept steel rods.
What suppliers would you recommend or avoid lol cheeRS
What suppliers would you recommend or avoid lol cheeRS
22-02-2010, 12:22 PM
#7
That is about the going rate for those mate, but I would recommend staying standard CR I know the ebay listed ones are low comp, and for your target BHP of 220 low comp is not needed.
I think I bought my ACL bearings from ebay too... if not Burton Power sell them.
My local engineer wanted about £100 to machine my Mahles to fit Pec rods.
Something to bare in mind before you buy your pistons, is to check for bore wear!
If there is any lip at all at the top of the bore then you will need to go at least 0.5mm oversize pistons and a rebore to suit. Or source a low milage bottom end.... but this is not easy, I went through 4 blocks before I managed to find one with no wear!
I think I bought my ACL bearings from ebay too... if not Burton Power sell them.
My local engineer wanted about £100 to machine my Mahles to fit Pec rods.
Something to bare in mind before you buy your pistons, is to check for bore wear!
If there is any lip at all at the top of the bore then you will need to go at least 0.5mm oversize pistons and a rebore to suit. Or source a low milage bottom end.... but this is not easy, I went through 4 blocks before I managed to find one with no wear!
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23-02-2010, 12:16 PM
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Have been offered an St170 bottom end c/w crank, forged pistons and rods but may need bearings, head gasket , bolts etc for a comparible price to a full rebuild of the standard CVH bottom end. What do you guys think, sounds stronger and more reliable in my mind anyway?
23-02-2010, 10:24 PM
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Noticed on my engine I have the hole in the front of the block (for a CPS?) does this mean its an EFI block?
The chassis itself is an EFi XR3i so likely it could be but question is assuming the block internals are from the EFi XR3i how compatible are they with the RS turbo. Are they the same or different?
The chassis itself is an EFi XR3i so likely it could be but question is assuming the block internals are from the EFi XR3i how compatible are they with the RS turbo. Are they the same or different?
28-02-2010, 10:31 PM
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One more thing...the car will not turn over and the starter relay just clicks away. I can turn the crank by hand so its not seized.
What could have caused this because it seems to have happened in conjunction with the bottom end damage i.e rough at idle, low oil pressure cut out and then would not start without a jump (did this twice on the day)
Before the turbo was fitted it worked no problem. Does the alternator not charge on idle ? By the way recent new battery, alternator and starter motor.
What could have caused this because it seems to have happened in conjunction with the bottom end damage i.e rough at idle, low oil pressure cut out and then would not start without a jump (did this twice on the day)
Before the turbo was fitted it worked no problem. Does the alternator not charge on idle ? By the way recent new battery, alternator and starter motor.
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