Well.......CAUSE FOUND!!!!
02-10-2009, 09:46 AM
#3
More pics on this thread https://passionford.com/forum/ford-e...0396-well.html
Dont think it's Det mate, i'm no expert but it looks like too much material was taken from behind the valve seat if you look at the second pic in this thread.
Dont think it's Det mate, i'm no expert but it looks like too much material was taken from behind the valve seat if you look at the second pic in this thread.
Last edited by Karlos G; 02-10-2009 at 09:48 AM.
02-10-2009, 10:01 AM
#5
Considering how hot it would have to be for that to happen I think the head would have cracked first, or at least blown the gasket! lol 
Oil and water temps have always been ok (I have gauges, and MS logs the water temp also), no long periods of high constant revs, i'm very aware of things like temps as this engine has cost me alot of money so i'm always careful with it.
Again if you look at the second pic does it not look like too much material has been taken away from behind the seat??
Oil and water temps have always been ok (I have gauges, and MS logs the water temp also), no long periods of high constant revs, i'm very aware of things like temps as this engine has cost me alot of money so i'm always careful with it.
Again if you look at the second pic does it not look like too much material has been taken away from behind the seat??
02-10-2009, 10:06 AM
#6
..BS Motorsport..
no expert bud, just going by what Karl told me when he did mine, he mentioned he'd rather I didnt put it on a rolling road as the excess heat and constant high revs had been know to weaken the seat and lead to premature failure, that was a few years back mind.
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02-10-2009, 12:25 PM
#15
Custom
that's not good, also i was reading back the thread when you got the head about you saying its got bronze guides and they look standard
is there any damage to the inlet side you got any pictures of the below the inlet valve ?
is there any damage to the inlet side you got any pictures of the below the inlet valve ?
Last edited by LEE-RS; 02-10-2009 at 02:05 PM.
02-10-2009, 12:30 PM
#16
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Hi karl, as i said in your other thread it looked like a valve seat may have dropped as the damage is quite severe for any det etc. i would like to have a look at the valve seat grind and give you an opinion on why it failed if you want me to let us know.
it has been known if you have the head faced it will lower the amount of alloy to hold in the seat. a few cossies have dropped valves due to over skimming.
it has been known if you have the head faced it will lower the amount of alloy to hold in the seat. a few cossies have dropped valves due to over skimming.
02-10-2009, 02:25 PM
#17
Am I right in thinking Timing would have to be too retarded for high EGT's?
Me!
Hi karl, as i said in your other thread it looked like a valve seat may have dropped as the damage is quite severe for any det etc. i would like to have a look at the valve seat grind and give you an opinion on why it failed if you want me to let us know.
it has been known if you have the head faced it will lower the amount of alloy to hold in the seat. a few cossies have dropped valves due to over skimming.
it has been known if you have the head faced it will lower the amount of alloy to hold in the seat. a few cossies have dropped valves due to over skimming.
NMS have asked me to send it to them so we'll see what they have to say!
02-10-2009, 02:43 PM
#18
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02-10-2009, 02:57 PM
#20
Karl - This is why we have our opinion that timing need to be set in one of two places. Rolling road or engine dyno.
Retarded timing = high EGT's
However, without measuring the effects of timing changes, you couldn't ever really truly know where the optimum point is. On the dyno, you can make timing changes, whilst monitoring power/torque output and EGT's (or if thats not available, the physical appearance of the turbo/manifold) which goes a long way towards gauging advance/retard and whats actually beneficial.
Really, in my opinion, the engine will be at its happiest in terms of safety and temperatures close to the point where it makes most power. OK, if you're peak power is at or close to the limit of internals etc, then thats not entirely true, but generally thats the case.
Retarded timing = high EGT's
However, without measuring the effects of timing changes, you couldn't ever really truly know where the optimum point is. On the dyno, you can make timing changes, whilst monitoring power/torque output and EGT's (or if thats not available, the physical appearance of the turbo/manifold) which goes a long way towards gauging advance/retard and whats actually beneficial.
Really, in my opinion, the engine will be at its happiest in terms of safety and temperatures close to the point where it makes most power. OK, if you're peak power is at or close to the limit of internals etc, then thats not entirely true, but generally thats the case.
02-10-2009, 03:03 PM
#21
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Karl - This is why we have our opinion that timing need to be set in one of two places. Rolling road or engine dyno.
Retarded timing = high EGT's
However, without measuring the effects of timing changes, you couldn't ever really truly know where the optimum point is. On the dyno, you can make timing changes, whilst monitoring power/torque output and EGT's (or if thats not available, the physical appearance of the turbo/manifold) which goes a long way towards gauging advance/retard and whats actually beneficial.
Really, in my opinion, the engine will be at its happiest in terms of safety and temperatures close to the point where it makes most power. OK, if you're peak power is at or close to the limit of internals etc, then thats not entirely true, but generally thats the case.
Retarded timing = high EGT's
However, without measuring the effects of timing changes, you couldn't ever really truly know where the optimum point is. On the dyno, you can make timing changes, whilst monitoring power/torque output and EGT's (or if thats not available, the physical appearance of the turbo/manifold) which goes a long way towards gauging advance/retard and whats actually beneficial.
Really, in my opinion, the engine will be at its happiest in terms of safety and temperatures close to the point where it makes most power. OK, if you're peak power is at or close to the limit of internals etc, then thats not entirely true, but generally thats the case.
i wish it was put like that for me lol
02-10-2009, 03:03 PM
#22
Custom
02-10-2009, 03:03 PM
#23
More pics, inlet side is fine.....
Looks like Bronze inserts to me?........
Close up of the exhaust port......
Another thought, if I had high enough EGT's to unseat the valve seat would I not be seeing a nice glowing manifold/turbo? Never even after a good run have I had it happen, and i've pulled over and opened the bonnet to look for that very reason.
Looks like Bronze inserts to me?........
Close up of the exhaust port......
Another thought, if I had high enough EGT's to unseat the valve seat would I not be seeing a nice glowing manifold/turbo? Never even after a good run have I had it happen, and i've pulled over and opened the bonnet to look for that very reason.
02-10-2009, 03:06 PM
#24
Karl - This is why we have our opinion that timing need to be set in one of two places. Rolling road or engine dyno.
Retarded timing = high EGT's
However, without measuring the effects of timing changes, you couldn't ever really truly know where the optimum point is. On the dyno, you can make timing changes, whilst monitoring power/torque output and EGT's (or if thats not available, the physical appearance of the turbo/manifold) which goes a long way towards gauging advance/retard and whats actually beneficial.
Really, in my opinion, the engine will be at its happiest in terms of safety and temperatures close to the point where it makes most power. OK, if you're peak power is at or close to the limit of internals etc, then thats not entirely true, but generally thats the case.
Retarded timing = high EGT's
However, without measuring the effects of timing changes, you couldn't ever really truly know where the optimum point is. On the dyno, you can make timing changes, whilst monitoring power/torque output and EGT's (or if thats not available, the physical appearance of the turbo/manifold) which goes a long way towards gauging advance/retard and whats actually beneficial.
Really, in my opinion, the engine will be at its happiest in terms of safety and temperatures close to the point where it makes most power. OK, if you're peak power is at or close to the limit of internals etc, then thats not entirely true, but generally thats the case.
Last edited by Karlos G; 02-10-2009 at 03:11 PM.
02-10-2009, 03:07 PM
#25
..BS Motorsport..
without sounding awful I think the mapping of your own engine and fitment of your own cam is going to render any kind of warranty etc null and void on that head. 
02-10-2009, 03:07 PM
#26
Chips have to be very conservative because if you optimise the timing for the 'test' vehicle and ANYTHING is different with any of the vehicles that the copied chip gets fitted to, the engine could very easily shit itself. So, chips are usually on the rich side and with retarded timing, or else the manufacturer is taking a chance!!
Let's not forget that other things can cause high EGT's, such as exhaust backpressure etc, but whatever else is wrong, optimal timing will make it the best it can be.
02-10-2009, 03:12 PM
#27
Karl, I meant to say earlier, when Tony's failed at Brunters a few years ago, his turbo looked fine, but it wasn't until it was properly inspected that aluminium 'swarf' was found embedded into the BACK of the turbine wheel. There was alot of materal floating around in that combustion chamber and I'd not be surprised if some of it said 'hello' to the turbine wheel on the way out. I hope not for your sake, but you'd not want to build that engine back up, then lose it again because the turbo goes on to shit itself.
02-10-2009, 03:13 PM
#28
Karl, I meant to say earlier, when Tony's failed at Brunters a few years ago, his turbo looked fine, but it wasn't until it was properly inspected that aluminium 'swarf' was found embedded into the BACK of the turbine wheel. There was alot of materal floating around in that combustion chamber and I'd not be surprised if some of it said 'hello' to the turbine wheel on the way out. I hope not for your sake, but you'd not want to build that engine back up, then lose it again because the turbo goes on to shit itself.
02-10-2009, 03:14 PM
#29
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This is why 'Chips' are very second-rate compared to 'Live mapping'.
Chips have to be very conservative because if you optimise the timing for the 'test' vehicle and ANYTHING is different with any of the vehicles that the copied chip gets fitted to, the engine could very easily shit itself. So, chips are usually on the rich side and with retarded timing, or else the manufacturer is taking a chance!!
Let's not forget that other things can cause high EGT's, such as exhaust backpressure etc, but whatever else is wrong, optimal timing will make it the best it can be.
Chips have to be very conservative because if you optimise the timing for the 'test' vehicle and ANYTHING is different with any of the vehicles that the copied chip gets fitted to, the engine could very easily shit itself. So, chips are usually on the rich side and with retarded timing, or else the manufacturer is taking a chance!!
Let's not forget that other things can cause high EGT's, such as exhaust backpressure etc, but whatever else is wrong, optimal timing will make it the best it can be.
what is a safe or routh ball park figure in terms of EGT's?
02-10-2009, 03:48 PM
#33
Custom
Saying that tho Christian you are also a so called CVH god with having the second fastest CVH on the planet NMS have Karl for there tuning but what you achieved was amazing really, you went from a average everyday bloke to what you are today, but i guess your leaving that all behind now your getting rid
02-10-2009, 03:57 PM
#35
Karl, I'm not a supporter of looking at timing maps and analysing them. It depends on alot of different factors, which is why I say that 'live' is the only way. It's not snobbery, I hope it doesn't come across that way.
I've only had ONE engine failure in 10 years and that was when I fitted a Cometic head gasket, since going back to standard, it's been fine. Even then, that was only a head gasket failure. Remember my car is tuned 100% on the dyno and used for top speed.
I've only had ONE engine failure in 10 years and that was when I fitted a Cometic head gasket, since going back to standard, it's been fine. Even then, that was only a head gasket failure. Remember my car is tuned 100% on the dyno and used for top speed.
02-10-2009, 05:13 PM
#36
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Not got the facilities to check my egt's but my turbo/manifold always glows after a good thrash.....never has it caused any issues so not thought much about it but i wonder why yours would never ever glow red even after a hard drive Karlos??
02-10-2009, 05:15 PM
#37
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There's plenty enough timing in there. Unless it's seen 7k plus sustained that really shouldn't of happened. Having said that, CVH valve's are a ticking time bomb, which is why I eventually moved away.
02-10-2009, 06:44 PM
#39
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02-10-2009, 08:39 PM
#40
Karl, I'm not a supporter of looking at timing maps and analysing them. It depends on alot of different factors, which is why I say that 'live' is the only way. It's not snobbery, I hope it doesn't come across that way.
I've only had ONE engine failure in 10 years and that was when I fitted a Cometic head gasket, since going back to standard, it's been fine. Even then, that was only a head gasket failure. Remember my car is tuned 100% on the dyno and used for top speed.
I've only had ONE engine failure in 10 years and that was when I fitted a Cometic head gasket, since going back to standard, it's been fine. Even then, that was only a head gasket failure. Remember my car is tuned 100% on the dyno and used for top speed.
Valve clearance? How and where do I meassure that?