andy130

iTrader: (2)

ok am going to build a new engine am using 20XE pistons, what else do i need along with these to make the above? yeah i no head work, am planning on using newman stg4 cam ect what turbo ect?
thanks

gaz s1

stage 3 t3, decent managment and a decent box

andy130

iTrader: (2)

box is the one that is killing me

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

change to an mtx 75 box, custom shafts and you'll be fine :blub:
should be easy, arp rod bolts are a must i'd have thought.
either a stage 3 t3 or just a 4wd cossie turbo, basically the same bar for a 360 degree bearing.

Antti O

I dont understand really how you destroy gearboxes. I have ~270bhp in my current setup with standard rs turbo gearbox and never had any problems with it. I say its more about who is driving the car how the gearboxes can take power. I have also standard bottom end with standard rod bolts.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Please dont be offended Antti but I think maybe your RR figures are a little optimistic?
Standard rods and bolts will not take 270bhp........ at least not for long! lol Plenty of people have had them go below 250bhp!
Same goes for a standard gearbox, mine sheard teeth off at only 190bhp and I wasnt being harsh with it, just put my foot down in 2nd and off they came!
Also if you spark table has not changed since you emailed me your map then IMO it's very retarded and would struggle to make 270bhp, there could be a lot more power to be had with another 8 or so degree's of advance

Just my thoughts though.........

crazycage

every time someone posts up a power figure on this site people say its a bull shit figure!! and thats why i will never put mine up theres no way i could have 330+bhp in my little fezz must of been a duff set of rollers.

Antti O

I think arquing is totally pointless in this case with the accuracy about kta-racing rr.
But i say about that rr result that i have dynoed 5 cars there before, there has also been many powerful factory cars and graphs has always been what there should be. For example bmw m5 e60 gave what it should. I dynoed my ex rst there and result was 194bhp but now i have pretty good head and i think that turbo is most important thing. I really dont remember what map i did send you but i can take a look about that spark map what i currently have in my car laptop & ecu.
Is that so hard to believe that my spec is working so fine? I was first pretty surprised with result because it gave 259bhp in first run without any cam timing or ignition tuning. It was 100% mapped in normal road. The rest of the power was found when i adjusted little bit more boost.
But if you still hesitate that spec and power i can next summer go to different rollers and take run there. There is still no any sign that any place is tearing part and i bet that performance tells something. I will take quarter mile run to prove it next summer. I still know what 194bhp rst feels, and that my current setup is something else.
Also fact is that i dont burn rubber and do traffic light race. I think one key that your engine and gearbox will live is that driving like a normal car most of the time spares engine and gearbox.

edit:

And.. i newer broke gearbox with that 194bhp power and that car was usually driven like i am stoling it. Those mad years when i was young.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

It's not that I doubt the power figure, Antti's spec is good for it, it was simply a suggestion as to why his rods, and gearbox seem perfectly happy @ 270bhp when from experience they really shouldnt be! lol
We all know rollers can be out easily by 20-30bhp, again i've experienced this first hand....... just a possibility thats all.

orion88

ive blown 2 boxes at under 200bhp
mates blown 3 at 200 other mates blown one at 170ish
270 if it aint blown yet it will do soon
maybe u just got a lucky one but seems a bit unlikely

JesseT

I had a very similar spec to Antti several years ago with over 250bhp as well. It was a standard bottom end with a standard gearbox and it has been fine for nearly a decade now. In any case, power don't put the rod bolts to test, RPM will. Also gearboxes will be destroyed by clutch use, grip, and neglect.

It's funny how the tables have turned. Usually it's the finnish who have defined the UK-bhp as ~1kw

To the original question:
The things you will definately need are a proper intercooler, management and something slightly bigger than the original turbo. It doesn't really matter if it's cvh or zvh. Everything else will just help make the power with less boost/heat.

morph

iTrader: (1)

mines on a standard box with an 4 paddle clutch and just recon'd to standard spec and its holding ok running 240bhp and 270-300bhp.
really depends on how much torque the car produces that can damage the gearbox more than bhp.

Antti O

And one big thing is how you drive your car.

jaiscossie

My mate has a genuine 300hp escort turbo which he has covered over 20k miles in since the build and its still on the standard gearbox. So do believe its how you drive it also, as he never nails it hard in 1st and 2nd gears.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

what management are you planning on using?

andy130

iTrader: (2)

l6/l8 cosworth or the same as karlos?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

That is truly amazing!!!
Maybe it is down to how you drive it, and maybe the resilience of the box's vary quite a bit as there is plenty that let go sub 200bhp let alone 300bhp! lol

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i run megassquirt as well as karlos and a few others and has so much potential (anti lag for one e.g. launch control function, boost control, nitrous progressive control etc.)
an rs turbo box with the bigger bearings and a new main shaft will be quite strong, most of the rebuilt ones have reground shafts and oversized bearings, causing then to wear out quickly.
i got mine sorted seven years ago, ran it on 127bhp N/a and then onto 125bhp xr2 tt setup, now upgraded up to a 1.8zvh on a cossie turbo, over 200bhp, still a good solid box with no noises as yet.
although if/when it goes an mtx75 will be fitted due to it being 300bhp ready from the off.

andy130

iTrader: (2)

yeah the box is strong just depends on how u drive tho, whats the spec on yours mate

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

just a reconned box, but a new shaft fitted and series1 diff fitted, done at KN transmission.
engine spec is 1.8zvh, lowered compression ratio of 8.0:1 IIRC,AP paddle clutch, xr2i inlet with 440cc injectors, megasquirt MSIIv3.0 (the best so far out there) front mount standard Ford 2i cam, had enough of piper/kent toffee ones, 4wd cossie t3 with cossie down pipe and magnex 2.5" exhaust modified to suit floor pan of my xr2, external swirl pot with facet feed pump and cossie 2wd injection pump, RD quickshift, VEMS wideband and a laptop to get it all working lol!

loads more, but less engine specific such as coilovers etc.

jaiscossie

I know im shocked to but know the guy well and know his car to and its a genuine 300hp car. He runs a t040r turbo at 22psi and when it comes in it comes in now.cant believe the box has been in there nearly 3years.

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

I've known boxes to go with 180bhp, But if you abuse them they will break! It's not the bhp that kills the boxes though, its the lbft and how quick it comes in.

andy130

iTrader: (2)

couldnt have put it better myself^^^

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Very true but there are not many 300bhp RST's that a pulling less torque than a 180bhp RST, or that dont come in as hard! lol
Also as I said above I had two teeth shear off my input shaft and all I did was accelerate, and i'm very cautious with my gearbox's as I know how weak they are, I was only running 190bhp and about 180ftlb or torque!
The box had only been rebuilt sub 5000miles ago too........ but then again that has nothing to do with the strength of the teeth!

Antti O

Karlos

now i have some performance figures

62 to 100mph takes 5.5 seconds

Quarter best was 14.4 and 106.3mph with 1-2 gear spinning to limiter. Horrible 60ft.

clarke5700

this sounds kool get some pics up (on another threed of course lol)

crazycage

i would say your power is more like 240hp with a terminal like imo,what was your 60ft?

forevaford

iTrader: (2)

my s2 zetec turbo did 1/4 mile at 13.9 seconds at 109 mph,
running 270 bhp at 22 psi.
only mods is ported head, and megasquirt. oh and s3t3 turbo
and i get through standard gearboxes rouphly 1 every 3 months lol. keeps sheering teeth, i sheered 5th at over 130 mph once. i shat myself cus it went strait to the limmeter and popped and banged, i did a big swerve and every thing lol. damn gearboxes

jaiscossie

As mentioned before, a car friend of mine has a genuine 300hp s2 with over 250pound foot torque.He has covered nearly 20k in his car since the engine was built and to this day the standard gearbox has lasted.He swears by decent gearbox oil and doesnt launch the car in 1st or 2nd gear. Mine however was a different story,Has broke 3 boxes now.Two of them being stage 2+ boxes.