Zvh vs zetec turbs
13-06-2009, 01:52 PM
#1
Zvh vs zetec turbs
Picked up a 1.8 the other day to start my zvh and was wondering if it would be easier to just be done with it and drop the hole zetec in.was wondering what's involed.cheers
Last edited by barnard; 13-06-2009 at 01:56 PM.
13-06-2009, 01:56 PM
#2
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. The zetec is a c##t 
What car is it going in.
13-06-2009, 02:06 PM
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Did this for a mates FRST. And that will be the last one to
ZVH in the s2 and keep the mfi. But get the fuel sorted on the metre unit. You still get good results.
ZVH in the s2 and keep the mfi. But get the fuel sorted on the metre unit. You still get good results.
Last edited by Matt carter; 13-06-2009 at 02:09 PM.
14-06-2009, 08:10 AM
#7
Professional Waffler
Keep the CVH or go full Zetec mate. The normal 'put together on a driveway' ZVH are so over rated. You need to spend money on them as the CVH cylinder head can't flow adequetly and power and torque die at 5.5krpm. That money could be spent getting a Zetec turbo going and be of nice benefit as the Zetec head is a fantastic bit of kit from the factory.
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
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14-06-2009, 11:29 AM
#10
Keep the CVH or go full Zetec mate. The normal 'put together on a driveway' ZVH are so over rated. You need to spend money on them as the CVH cylinder head can't flow adequetly and power and torque die at 5.5krpm. That money could be spent getting a Zetec turbo going and be of nice benefit as the Zetec head is a fantastic bit of kit from the factory.
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
14-06-2009, 01:35 PM
#11
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14-06-2009, 01:46 PM
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Keep the CVH or go full Zetec mate. The normal 'put together on a driveway' ZVH are so over rated. You need to spend money on them as the CVH cylinder head can't flow adequetly and power and torque die at 5.5krpm. That money could be spent getting a Zetec turbo going and be of nice benefit as the Zetec head is a fantastic bit of kit from the factory.
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
Zetec is a lot of work to do on the driveway to mate
ZVH water plat and 4 bungs and sump........... yep that big money
If the lad has a lot of money he shoud of got a 2.0
CVH cylinder head can't flow... I think it can
V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V
Quickest FWD Escort in the UK......12.65@122
2.0 litre ZVH, 8 valve, GT3071, 6 Speed
http://www.sitechracing.co.uk/
http://www.quantums.info/zvh.htm
http://www.sitechracing.co.uk/
http://www.quantums.info/zvh.htm
Last edited by Matt carter; 14-06-2009 at 02:08 PM.
14-06-2009, 02:06 PM
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14-06-2009, 02:10 PM
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No I haven't, but from reading on here and hearing what some people have to say about them from my point of view it seems backwards sticking a CVH head on a zetec block that already has a very good flowing head anyway.
Each to their own though, that's my personal opinion.
Each to their own though, that's my personal opinion.
14-06-2009, 02:15 PM
#17
The ZVH needs a very very good head (Stage 3 big valve etc..) or it is restrictive and you'll make peek power at 5500rpm as said, you also need a big turbo as a stock T3 is next to useless on a ZVH.
Take alook at this
But to get that result you need to have a big budget and this spec!
2.0, H beam rods, Custom Pistons, CVH 8v Area-Six Big valve head, Custom camshaft, Solid Followers, Area-six double valve springs, Custom Inlet manifold, T38 turbo, Pectel T2 ecu
This is why...
So I wouldnt touch a ZVH as to make it even halfway useful, you need a big budget and even then you still end up with a lag monster.
Take alook at this
But to get that result you need to have a big budget and this spec!
2.0, H beam rods, Custom Pistons, CVH 8v Area-Six Big valve head, Custom camshaft, Solid Followers, Area-six double valve springs, Custom Inlet manifold, T38 turbo, Pectel T2 ecu
This is why...
The ability of a turbocharged engine to rev to high rpm's is based primarily on two factors.
1. strength of engine which also encompasses design to be correct for such an application
2. Ability of the engine and turbo to flow sufficent air at these rpm's in order to maintain torque. (this is what makes an engine feel revvy)
The reason the turbocharged ZVH normally suffers with holding high rpm torque is its rated capacity in comparison to the cylinder head flow rate. Essentially this means that the head itself becomes a flow restriction in relation to its capacity and hence engine torque falls quite rapidly with rpm. This can be overcome to some extent with a larger turbo and heavily reworked head which can help increase engine breathing at higher rpm's but this does of course lead to the usual lag, drivability and most importantly cost issues that come about in building an engine capable of using such a large turbo!
hope that helps explain things a little!
1. strength of engine which also encompasses design to be correct for such an application
2. Ability of the engine and turbo to flow sufficent air at these rpm's in order to maintain torque. (this is what makes an engine feel revvy)
The reason the turbocharged ZVH normally suffers with holding high rpm torque is its rated capacity in comparison to the cylinder head flow rate. Essentially this means that the head itself becomes a flow restriction in relation to its capacity and hence engine torque falls quite rapidly with rpm. This can be overcome to some extent with a larger turbo and heavily reworked head which can help increase engine breathing at higher rpm's but this does of course lead to the usual lag, drivability and most importantly cost issues that come about in building an engine capable of using such a large turbo!
hope that helps explain things a little!
Last edited by Karlos G; 14-06-2009 at 02:17 PM.
14-06-2009, 05:45 PM
#18
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Pani k.......380 bhp... cvh heads... You just got to know what to do with them to make them flow good.
https://passionford.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=142899
https://passionford.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=142899
After various problems I have had with my gearbox and twin plate clutch. Today Paul hill @ engine advantages finally finished the map On my 2.0zvh fiesta. only problem we had one of the rocker arm studs decided to escape from the cylinder head taking the threads, so Paul had to helicoil the head. The engine ended up making 428bhp and 404fbt @ 28psi and @ 20psi 340bhp I don’t the torque these gt series turbos really move some air. to say I am pleased is an under statement, the car an absolute animal to drive going to take a bit of getting use to.fook knows how Paul johnsons and sunny cars go like.
__________________
frst 2.0zvh steel bottomend gt 2876r aka gt25/40r roller bearing turbo, L8 ecu, 850cc injectors mapped by msd to 12psi with LC & AL closed loop fueling 30+ psi soon
0-100 10.84 100-150 9.24 154mph daddy thrash 06
https://passionford.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=142899
https://passionford.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=142899
https://passionford.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=142899
After various problems I have had with my gearbox and twin plate clutch. Today Paul hill @ engine advantages finally finished the map On my 2.0zvh fiesta. only problem we had one of the rocker arm studs decided to escape from the cylinder head taking the threads, so Paul had to helicoil the head. The engine ended up making 428bhp and 404fbt @ 28psi and @ 20psi 340bhp I don’t the torque these gt series turbos really move some air. to say I am pleased is an under statement, the car an absolute animal to drive going to take a bit of getting use to.fook knows how Paul johnsons and sunny cars go like.
__________________
frst 2.0zvh steel bottomend gt 2876r aka gt25/40r roller bearing turbo, L8 ecu, 850cc injectors mapped by msd to 12psi with LC & AL closed loop fueling 30+ psi soon
0-100 10.84 100-150 9.24 154mph daddy thrash 06
https://passionford.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=142899
Last edited by Matt carter; 14-06-2009 at 06:04 PM.
14-06-2009, 06:10 PM
#19
Professional Waffler
Over rated my ass.
Zetec is a lot of work to do on the driveway to mate
ZVH water plat and 4 bungs and sump........... yep that big money
If the lad has a lot of money he shoud of got a 2.0
CVH cylinder head can't flow... I think it can
V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V
Quickest FWD Escort in the UK......12.65@122
2.0 litre ZVH, 8 valve, GT3071, 6 Speed
http://www.sitechracing.co.uk/
http://www.quantums.info/zvh.htm
http://www.sitechracing.co.uk/
http://www.quantums.info/zvh.htm
Zetec is a lot of work to do on the driveway to mate
ZVH water plat and 4 bungs and sump........... yep that big money
If the lad has a lot of money he shoud of got a 2.0
CVH cylinder head can't flow... I think it can
V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V
Quickest FWD Escort in the UK......12.65@122
2.0 litre ZVH, 8 valve, GT3071, 6 Speed
http://www.sitechracing.co.uk/
http://www.quantums.info/zvh.htm
http://www.sitechracing.co.uk/
http://www.quantums.info/zvh.htm
What you described (bolded for you) is exactly what I meant by over rated driveway job and as i stated the power and torque will vanish at about 5500rpm.
The CVH head can be made to flow for teh Zetec bottom end and again as stated this costs money. Money which could be spent on sorting the Zetec turbo out which will return superb gains.
With regards to the Sitech car I think you'll find that doesn't run a stock head lashed onto a Zetec block. In fact I'd doubt very much there is anything stock in that motor.
It might be the fastest FWD Escort but if you look at luke's Zetec powered Fiesta that ran a 12.77@ 123mph. It's irrespective quoting these cars as they are big money, high spec'd cars.
14-06-2009, 06:52 PM
#21
Professional Waffler
imho this would indicate one of two things;
1) Your head has been played with.
2) It does but you don't realise. (not trying to be rude)
The quote of Karls by Karlos is spot on. Karl (of NMS fame) seriously knows his stuff and has quantified the rasons behind the issues I've pointed out.
1) Your head has been played with.
2) It does but you don't realise. (not trying to be rude)
The quote of Karls by Karlos is spot on. Karl (of NMS fame) seriously knows his stuff and has quantified the rasons behind the issues I've pointed out.
14-06-2009, 07:20 PM
#22
imho this would indicate one of two things;
1) Your head has been played with.
2) It does but you don't realise. (not trying to be rude)
The quote of Karls by Karlos is spot on. Karl (of NMS fame) seriously knows his stuff and has quantified the rasons behind the issues I've pointed out.
1) Your head has been played with.
2) It does but you don't realise. (not trying to be rude)
The quote of Karls by Karlos is spot on. Karl (of NMS fame) seriously knows his stuff and has quantified the rasons behind the issues I've pointed out.
14-06-2009, 07:31 PM
#24
PassionFord Post Whore!!
You didn't actualy read what I typed did you?
What you described (bolded for you) is exactly what I meant by over rated driveway job and as i stated the power and torque will vanish at about 5500rpm.
The CVH head can be made to flow for teh Zetec bottom end and again as stated this costs money. Money which could be spent on sorting the Zetec turbo out which will return superb gains.
With regards to the Sitech car I think you'll find that doesn't run a stock head lashed onto a Zetec block. In fact I'd doubt very much there is anything stock in that motor.
It might be the fastest FWD Escort but if you look at luke's Zetec powered Fiesta that ran a 12.77@ 123mph. It's irrespective quoting these cars as they are big money, high spec'd cars.
What you described (bolded for you) is exactly what I meant by over rated driveway job and as i stated the power and torque will vanish at about 5500rpm.
The CVH head can be made to flow for teh Zetec bottom end and again as stated this costs money. Money which could be spent on sorting the Zetec turbo out which will return superb gains.
With regards to the Sitech car I think you'll find that doesn't run a stock head lashed onto a Zetec block. In fact I'd doubt very much there is anything stock in that motor.
It might be the fastest FWD Escort but if you look at luke's Zetec powered Fiesta that ran a 12.77@ 123mph. It's irrespective quoting these cars as they are big money, high spec'd cars.
14-06-2009, 08:10 PM
#25
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Yes my head has a lot of work done to it, heavily ported inlet and exhaust and custom cam. The turbo is stage 3, roller bearing etc etc......
I just totally trust my engine tuner, little company in kent, Race power motorsport. He knows his stuff as well as all the big names we hear about on the Ford scene. Reguards to this question about zvh and the zetec turbo, if you are on a low budget, in my eyes it is cheaper to do the zvh, i.e just build the bottom end, as for the zetec theres a lot of plates you need to buy, focus rs plugs and leads, bigger injectors, getting the exhaust manifold tap and drilled is critical to be spot on and the all important thing as it is a s2 is the management and fiesta turbo management does not want to cope. But then again chaps this is just my opinion as ive tried and succeeded but what a head -scratcher!!!!
I just totally trust my engine tuner, little company in kent, Race power motorsport. He knows his stuff as well as all the big names we hear about on the Ford scene. Reguards to this question about zvh and the zetec turbo, if you are on a low budget, in my eyes it is cheaper to do the zvh, i.e just build the bottom end, as for the zetec theres a lot of plates you need to buy, focus rs plugs and leads, bigger injectors, getting the exhaust manifold tap and drilled is critical to be spot on and the all important thing as it is a s2 is the management and fiesta turbo management does not want to cope. But then again chaps this is just my opinion as ive tried and succeeded but what a head -scratcher!!!!
14-06-2009, 09:03 PM
#26
Advanced PassionFord User
zetec turbo all the way , very tunable engine with lots of potenial with futher mods down the line as this is what i did with my engine , first engine had h beam rods , low comp pistons , standard head with uprated valve spring , rs 1800 inlet and fuel rail , uprated injectors , uprated fuel pressure reg , fiesta turbo ofab ecu , erst manifold , t34 turbo , live map by ahmed bajoo , large front mounted intercooler and was running a genuine solid 300bhp , then the next stage was the very same bottom end , big valve head , double valve springs etc , tubular manifold , custom inlet , 650cc injectors , aeromotive fuel reg , t61 turbo , cosworth throttle body , custom cams and pulleys , pectel management and that did 522bhp . the key with the zetec is get the bottom end sorted and then add bits on as and when you can afford them , ie by just bolting on an area six custom inlet to the first engine you would see a good 30/40 bhp gain so get saving mate and build it with decent parts
cheers paul
cheers paul
14-06-2009, 09:50 PM
#27
Advanced PassionFord User
Keep the CVH or go full Zetec mate. The normal 'put together on a driveway' ZVH are so over rated. You need to spend money on them as the CVH cylinder head can't flow adequetly and power and torque die at 5.5krpm. That money could be spent getting a Zetec turbo going and be of nice benefit as the Zetec head is a fantastic bit of kit from the factory.
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
Out of interest why the 1.8 and not the 2litre?
Or does anybody want to run a real hot engine with a big turbo and the exhaust of an 1.3? The same is ZVH...
15-06-2009, 12:19 PM
#28
Just for ref my ZVH runs standard valves, caps and springs, my own grind on a Newman cam, solid followers and a veriner pully. There is some extensive porting work on the head but nothing fancy. I also now run a std exhaust manifold, power is still the same! Best gain was the inlet manifold. I also use a basic intercooler.
Bottom end is a Zetec crank (had a re-grind) forged rods and forged pistons CR is 7.5:1
Managment is Gotech and Haltech. Depends what is in stock.
S.
Bottom end is a Zetec crank (had a re-grind) forged rods and forged pistons CR is 7.5:1
Managment is Gotech and Haltech. Depends what is in stock.
S.
15-06-2009, 06:41 PM
#29
Wow seems like ive started somthing here.well I don't get as much time on my car as id like so progress is slow.I've removed the cvh to discover new front panels is needed.i only wanna spend 2 grand or somthing may sell what i dont need to make a bit more.i do wanna do a zvh now although there's mixed fews.anyone got any idea where I should spend my money.I'm gonna use the 1.8 cheers for the help
15-06-2009, 06:50 PM
#30
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Just for ref my ZVH runs standard valves, caps and springs, my own grind on a Newman cam, solid followers and a veriner pully. There is some extensive porting work on the head but nothing fancy. I also now run a std exhaust manifold, power is still the same! Best gain was the inlet manifold. I also use a basic intercooler.
Bottom end is a Zetec crank (had a re-grind) forged rods and forged pistons CR is 7.5:1
Managment is Gotech and Haltech. Depends what is in stock.
S.
Bottom end is a Zetec crank (had a re-grind) forged rods and forged pistons CR is 7.5:1
Managment is Gotech and Haltech. Depends what is in stock.
S.
15-06-2009, 06:57 PM
#31
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i have both zvh and zetec turbo, and zetec turbo is spot on, way better than the zvh, and the standed zetec is good for around 300bhp
takes the same time to do a zvh as it does to do a zetec turbo in my eyes
takes the same time to do a zvh as it does to do a zetec turbo in my eyes
15-06-2009, 06:58 PM
#33
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the zvh is great for torque and drivabuility the zvh is a good engine but think of it this way if your going to mess with head and cams the cvh head only has half the amount
cheeeeeeeeper
aspecialy if the lad is doing it his self
cheeeeeeeeper
aspecialy if the lad is doing it his self
16-06-2009, 02:57 PM
#34
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300 bhp standard.......you sure..standard rods and pistons.
16-06-2009, 03:05 PM
#35
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Wow seems like ive started somthing here.well I don't get as much time on my car as id like so progress is slow.I've removed the cvh to discover new front panels is needed.i only wanna spend 2 grand or somthing may sell what i dont need to make a bit more.i do wanna do a zvh now although there's mixed fews.anyone got any idea where I should spend my money.I'm gonna use the 1.8 cheers for the help
2 grand rods and pistons, head gas flowed, plus inlet manifold and a decent cam, and a good set up with a bloke who knows what he's doing!
What comments will this get now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Matt carter; 16-06-2009 at 07:08 PM.
16-06-2009, 03:19 PM
#36
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For someone, like myself, running 1.8 zvh on mfi, what changes can be done to the inlet manifold as mentioned above? Or did you mean get it gas flowed along with the head?
16-06-2009, 07:25 PM
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16-06-2009, 09:34 PM
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Makes sense! But then couldn't that then lead to polishing the throttle body, crossover aswell? Or would that be a waste if hard earned $$?
Every little helps tho
Every little helps tho
17-06-2009, 09:59 AM
#39
i run a 1.8zvh and it's bloody good IMO, just about to replace turbo and tidy the map up a little, can't fault it to be honest, the torque does die off a little up the revs, but otherwise a good value build.
although if i was to do it again, it'd be a full zetec turbo, but i already had the flowed head etc, so made use of them this time.
although if i was to do it again, it'd be a full zetec turbo, but i already had the flowed head etc, so made use of them this time.
17-06-2009, 10:48 AM
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