roro22

I was wondering what are the best ways to improve a series 2 handling wise and in what order would it be done?

rsdan123

iTrader: (3)

cant go wrong with some good tyres and good suspension kit + not big wheels

roro22

Ive got goodyear eagles and konis just wondering really

bonus_boy

guessing you could get front and rear strut brace to stiffen the body up abit...

petermintrst

the mk3/4 escorts chassis is too wobbly so you definately need strut braces or roll cage to make it a good handler

bonus_boy

ive got both!

havnt used the car yet tho!!!

CliffRS4

iTrader: (1)

Depends how much you have to spend?

roro22

just say money was no object or it was spread over a period of time

gus

iTrader: (1)

mitsi evo running gear then

roro22

Im gonna sell up now lol

Andy_R

iTrader: (3)

Adjustable rear end IMO, so Rear coilovers and MEF adjustable parallel & trailing arms.

roro22 did your car belong to Stevie Groom at one point? it looks familiar.

roro22

yeah i bought it off him last april, he wanted to buy another bike!
hassled him to sell it to me for ages.
Where you from mate?

Andy_R

iTrader: (3)

Im from around the Glasgow area, spent may a weekend year on year, up your way though, I Know Tim Weir well and am good friends with Iain who owned the car prior to Stevie owning it. Small world Always was a good car too, hope your looking after it well

roro22

cool
Is iain on here I'd love to see some pics of the car before i had it! Doubt much has changed on it since tho.
Its been really good to me its never let me down and i always get comments on its condition. I try my best!

Andy_R

iTrader: (3)

Nah Iain's not on here, he's to busy for the net. I took a few pics for him a number of years back, unfortunatly they got deleted when I lost my HD. I'll find out if he's still got them and let you know though.
Who was the lad that had the AVA built Zetec Turbo up there? One of Stevies & Tims mates that was into his bikes too, stayed out by Benderloch! Do you konw if its still on the go? That would have been one of the 1st Zetecs ever done and instaled into an RST.

Handeling wise, Id advise you to go with the MEF coliover kit.
Speak to Tony(NUTS RuS) https://passionford.com/forum/members/246-nuts-rus.html
You can buy for the rear & fit without needing to strenghthen the rear of your car.
By fitting the adjustable arms you can have your car set up with the sort of charactaristics you want!
At a later date add the front coilovers & adjustable TCA's.
Something a little like this at the rear! But maybee cleaner



In addition to the above a Quaiffe LSD will help loads aswell, all depends on how much you want to spend.

Nick-T

The easiest, most simple and the often most overlooked improvement is with geometry.

A decent setup can make or break a car.
My setup is very simple, yet thanks to a proper geometry setup, is absolutely awesome around a circuit, even on road tyres.

roro22

Cheers
I don't know I'll ask steve when i see him next, I only moved here 2 years ago. I only know of 2 in the area an ones a heap

I'm only specualting now I don't know how far i want to go with the car I think before I'd make it go faster I want to make it beter with what its got. Living in the sticks means i gota go round corners a lot. I was thinking on 16's with 205 rubber too.

You think it best to start with the back end and get that sorted?

Nick - Do you need to upgrade to get the geometry setup? would AG motorsport be the place for setups?

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

I still have about 5 of those vented rear disc conversions in stock.

All you need is some 4x4 calipers and a cable and your away. £250

I think we have a pair of rear Bilies in stock and the arms are all made to order.

As said handling is about geometery and what you do with it.

Andy_R

iTrader: (3)

I would start at the back, Yes. Assuming that the kit is available to buy that way.
Others will have their own opinions on this im sure.
I remember years back being really impressed with an RST that had an Ahmed rear set up, which was in essence very similar to the MEF setup but with different shocks.
That extra adjustability at the rear which allowed for geometry to be set outwith the limitations of the original setup completely transformed the ride.
More recently I've been well impressed with Oli's (Red S1) which has the full MEF set up, front and rear, it handles like an rst ought not to.

Tony Im sure you'll read this whats your thoughts?? is Martin still doing the Kits? and is buying the rear seperate from the front an option?

Andy_R

iTrader: (3)

A bit slow with my reply there I knew youd read the topic Tony nice one!

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

Everything can be bought seperatly rear kit wise Andy yes.

Other makes of coilovers are cheaper elsewhere now, so unless its for proper competition use the production of the Bilstein units has now been downgraded to special request only.

That request would possibly have to come from me as it could potentially be my competition lol

c.fogarty

Bet that Olie' S1 great handling is partly down to the shell being fully seam welded & proper Multi-Point caged ??

Mk3/4 Escort shell seems well floppy

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

We have plenty cars with no seam welding whatsoever and not even a cage that also give us great feedback.

Most of the "floppyness" comes from the rubber bushes not the shell !!

c.fogarty

I bow to your knowledge may man

Don't doubt the effectivness of your products, & merits of a proper geometry set-up, but wondered if a totally standard Mk3/4 shell could be made to handle ???

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

It already does handle well !!

Any small problems get compounded by tired suspension, lowered chassis, bigger wheels, worn bushes etc etc.

RAT8OY

As above stated it truly depends how much you want to spend! Anything is possible nowadays!

If your confident with a welder you can make your own adjustable front and rear set ups, check out the rally design website for all the bits u need.

Andy_R

iTrader: (3)

100% agree. I have no doubts that the attention to detail & chasis preperation on his car adds to the rigidity and strength.
It is top notch, as is Tonys car as you would expect.
I guess the fact Oli uses MEF is testement to their quality. There arent many products that have been tested to the extent Tonys have. How many Rally stages? how many complete Rallys?? a lot thats for sure and more abuse than you or I are ever likely throw at our cars.

If the question were to be asked "is the main reason for the handling being as good a result of the chasis & cage prep?"
Then somehow id avoid answering it
Based on a number of road cars(RS Turbos & non caged)fitted with the same set up(or similar) minus the cage the answer is Yes they can. I know of a handfull that handle exceptionaly well. Just seems up until recently folks would rather spend pennies on making their car go faster rather than beter

sas

My S2 ERST got 5th at TOTB handaling last year(I only did 1 lap of a possiable 5) running on 10 year old konis, 15" alloys with Toyo R888 and a set up very simular to PF NICK.
So a standard car in my experiance does handle.

Simon.

Micky

Also my car is fairly well known for lapping well at trackdays,has only EASILY found bolt on stuff,KONI's,polybushed all round,strut braces,bolt in cage,cossie brakes and stripped interior.Only had around 180 BHP,but passed many bigpower cars.With that little power the car really had to handle good to lap quickly. So I'd say a RST can be made to handle without too much trouble.Regards,Micky

roro22

Thanks for the replys
I'm going back to basics, bushes, setup etc and go from there, nice to get advice from people with experience.
Mine is a road car and i doubt i will track it (never say never tho!) I just want more confidence and to make it beter.

16vzetec

to be honest i dont think there is anything wrong with a well setup and poly bushed std rst, maybe consider rose jointing everything for better control.

jpblue

The way I look at it all the kits, bushes, arms, springs etc is they are there to maintain one thing. geometry! Once the correct geometry is determined and set, ie the angles of the wheels relative to one another and the road it is the suspensions and chassis job to maintain that geometry, through the whole spectrum of movements possible.
Therefore whatever you add to the suspension system its prime directive should be to help maintain better control of the wheels during driving. Start with the bushes, especially up the back or a FWD. Ive found passive braking/stability philosophy employed by manufacturers set the rear bushes way to soft. A FWD I had allowed a 12 degree difference between toe in to toe out on the aligner just by twisting the rear wheel by hand, and the bushes werent that old. The philosophy is to toe the wheels in for stability under heavy braking and provide some geometry change during cornering to aid in oversteer/understeer control.
The outer lower rear bush will be heavily loaded so uprate that first with a very stiff bush. Next would be the toe control arms, get adjustable ones with stiff bushes and then use poly bushes everywhere else. the stiffer bushes are going to reduce toe change significantly and allow you to set the ideal settings. I like zero toe and 1.5 degree camber on the rears, but this will depend on the ability to adjust and your driving style and ability to replace tyres more often.
On the front Id again use stiffer bushings throughout, bearing in mind it will transfer vibration and noise into the cabin. It may be worth upgrading the arms to reduce deflection in them, i dont know your type of car specifically but any reduction in flex will help.
I cannot stress the importance of quality shock absorbers and matched springs, Invest in these. No point trying much more than discussed if your not going to do this. A too heavy spring will not be controlled by a standard shockabsorber and will weasr it out quickly resulting in a bad handling car, almost like a porpoise. If you are going to lower it, and there are advantages to it of course ensure there is enough suspension movement and that the top plates are not sitting on the bump stops. have the shock asorber shortened to suit the height of your car. A rule of thumb is to lower it so that the lower control arms are almost parallel to the ground, so that under full weight and moderate bump the suspension is flat and in the middle of its arc and has the best possible grip, ie when you need it during cornering. Nest up is to ensure the suspension pickup points are not moving around, upper strut braces braced to another part of the body, thus triangulating the forces is a must, if you can get a lower front brace do it too. Not sure if it's necessary as I havent seen the front of one like yours but some FWD's have the inner front suspension mount extended forward from the bulkhead and these can flop a bit. Seam welding is a great idea but requires painting afterwards, and is a serious modification, ie not bolt on.
Id set the front to 1 degree toe in and 2.5 degree neg camber and as much caster as possible.
Uprate your sway bars and their bushes as well, I like big bars front and rear, others don't but it suits my driving style. I don't care what the back end does, but the front must grip and point. My FWD's have always oversteered?
The last thing to do is a properly designed weld in cage. Pick up the suspension pickup points and triangulate back to another solid point. The cage stiffens the suspension points to minimise geometry change mid corner, It also helps in an accident!
And don't forget to handle well needs experimentation and testing, what works for some drivers doesnt for others, but no car will ever handle unless the suspension is controlled and geometries are maintained.
Cheers,
Justin P

Marc LJX

iTrader: (2)

Ive always been told that my RST handles well, and it aint got too much done to it...

So if your not digging too far into your pockets, just go for something simple like this:

Top adjustable Konis
Eibach springs (-25 or -30 i cant remember)
Polybushed everywhere
7.5"x16" rims, with 205/45/16 tyres.
Cosworth brake conversion too...

Micky can vouch for it at Croft last year!

jpblue- good read!

Micky

Indeed I can vouch for Marc's car,and funny enough his car has a very similar set up to mine.Easy parts to get hold off, at handy enough price's!!Regards,Micky