vroooom ptssssh

Just had a poke about the drivers footwell and found a relay?(maybe?) with a fuse in it, the fuse is blown as it didnt have a cover on and I remember not long after i got the car a spark coming from down their, so I covered it up with tape and thought nothing of it till i noticed the blown fuse just their! I seem to remember it not starting from cold from then on! could it be something to do with it?



bear in mind I have S2 fuel pump wiring, this was tucked up beside where the S2 fuel pump relay goes, the plug it goes into is dark green! i will get the numbers on the relay (if it is a relay) if needed?


Pleeeeeeeeeez help

SafeChav

Series 1 fuel management does derive its power supply from the original relay, i can't remember whether its the fuel pump relay or the fuel injection module relay but its more than likely got something to do with it. The series 1 fuel pump relay also has a rev limiter built in, which is part of the fuelling ecu on a series 2. I'd track down a proper relay and re-wire it if i were you.

vroooom ptssssh

So it' snot just as simple as replacing that blown fuse withn the relay?

It didnt have a cover on it so must of shorted out and that's why it blown?

SafeChav

Sorry mate i didnt see the blown fuse thing to start with. Yes replacing that fuse is 99.9% the answer to your cold start problem, thats the fuse for the fuel ECU main power supply. I think you still have the factory Fuel Injection Module Relay looking at it, but the wrong fuel pump relay. The fuel pump relay isn't a biggy but you don't have the rev limiter function.

And the only other thing i was going to say, and no offence, but that wiring is didn't you say it was already like that when you got it?

vroooom ptssssh

Yea the wiring isnt it's strong point

it was like this when i bought it, didnt notice till it was pointed out after i bought it

So what fuse should i need? and this is more than likely my cold start prob?

Whats the rev limit thing? and if this fuse is blown, i take it my car's been running lean on boost?

SafeChav

I know what its like to buy a car and find its bad points, that orion in my siggy, all the wiring that whould of been by the windscreen, was cable tied up at the bottom of the dash, you could only just get your foot up on the brake pedal, then occasionaly the fuel pump relay would decide to fall down and you wouldnt be able to brake

Right, the fuse, off the top of my head, i dont know. Remove it, measure the length (im sure they are 20mm fuses, but my be 1/4 inch), then on one of the metal caps you should see as an example: F1.6A

The F could be a T instead

T = Time Delay
F = Quickblow

and the 1.6 bit in that example is 1.6A.

The rev limiter, cuts the fuelling basically, although im sure the ignition ECU has a rev limiter. And yes, your car has been running lean

Remember i asked you before if it felt like it was running properly, if it feels rapid now it will more than likely be even rapider when its fixed

vroooom ptssssh

I'll just go get the fuse and tell you which it is top man andy I owe you a few beers

vroooom ptssssh

the fuse sais 1.6A - 250v other end it sais
_
T (in a triangle) UL (in a circle)then CO. with GTE above that.

It's 20mm

SafeChav

The letter is usually before the curret rating, im sure they are quick blow anyway and with no letter there it usually means its quickblow. Theres no reason why it should be a time delay fuse and there is no risk of damage.

Have you not got the cover for the relay?

vroooom ptssssh

No, no cover for the relay

volts and amps one end and the T is at the other, would that mean time delay? i know you said usually the letter before the Amps.

will try a motor factors tommoz and see how it goes, should be able to get one their?

P.s. the fuse holder looks like it could take a fuse very slightly bigger, it stops short of the end, maybe been replaced before!

SafeChav

Thats a shame, you might want to buy a small project box or something to put it in then, stop anymore shorts. Ideally track a new relay down.

If theres no letters before it, then im sure enough to say it will be quickblow. Time delay don't blow instantainiously, they allow for small surges for example when turning on equipment that has high in-rush currents. The worst that could ever happen is the fuse would blow again, but an ECU wouldn't have a high turn on current. Things like bulbs do.

How much gap? A 1.25 inch fuse is considerably bigger. (sorry just realised i said it was a 1/4 inch fuse above not 1 & 1/4 )

vroooom ptssssh

Right cool i'll sort out getting one then!

Theirs a minimal gap, say 2mm if that. the existing fuse is 20mm in length.


So im looking for a quickblow 1.6 amp 250v inline fuse I'l get my mate to look through his 'comfy' box and see if he can dig out a relay cover. thanks again Andy

SafeChav

Oh i forgot to mention, maplin sell the fuses, although i just looked on their website and apparently now they dont sell them over 0.8 of an amp. Wankers, things have changed since i used to work for them.

Any good electronics store will sell them, i expect if you were to walk into a motor factors with that they would curl up in the corner and cry lol

Worst comes to worst i may have on kicking around or failing that i can source one from a local shop

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Dave, that looks like the Series 1 Fuel injection module power relay. Replace the fuse and see how it starts.....

SafeChav

And heres the man that can answer any questions i can't on it

I was hoping you would come along Are you liking that wiring Daz???

vroooom ptssssh

Leave my mental wiring alone tbh I think it looks worse because it's not taped up? ( I hope )

Shall try and source a fuse tomorow! Andy if i cant i'll get back to you thanks

will report back tommo, cheers ladies

vroooom ptssssh

Ok, got a new fuse it sais T 1.6A 250V on one end, nothing on the other, am I good to go till i get a quickblow??

SafeChav

I wouldn't.............personally, its ok to put a quick blow where a time delay once because all that can happen is the fuse will blow again at worst, where as the time delay fuse may allow a spike to damage the ECU before its actually blown.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

That wiring isn't the worst I have seen!!!!

SafeChav

No i must admit ive seen worse aswell but it aint too pretty is it. Daz do you agree with what i said about the fuse?

Would you also recommend he tracks down the proper fuel pump relay aswell because they have a rev limiter in the proper ones dont they?

DazC

iTrader: (1)

If he is running S2 ECU's on an S2 loom then it won't matter. If not then it would ideally need the S1 fuel pump relay but the conections are slightly different at the bottom and it needs wiring up differently to the S2 relay...

SafeChav

Yea im aware the plug is different. Would you recommend him trying that Time delay fuse hes got until he can find a quickblow? I wouldn't myself.

What about the rev limiter function on the relay, or arent they much good? I'm pretty sure hes got the standard S1 loom and S1's ECU's......car being a S1 obviously

david

Davy if you need to try S2 ECU's then ive got a pair of STD ones sitting around somewhere.

vroooom ptssssh

ah jeezus

Ive no idea what ECU's im running, im pretty certain they are S1 ecu's! as it's S1 wiring loom and when it was set up by AVA everything was fine, no mention of it running the wrong ECU's. I'd assume the S2 fuel pump relay and its holder would of been wired in because S1 relays are harder to come by, but ive no idea how its done or whats needed to be done for it to work properly if it can?

I need to track an S2 fuel pump relay as i dont like using just a wire obv

pretty worried about the wiring now, unsure if its ok or not, damn car jus seems to get worse

Davie, cheers i'll keep that in mind

Anyone got a spare S1 wiring loom?

SafeChav

I wouldn't worry too much mate, chances are its only the fuel pump wiring. S2 ecu's will run on a S1 but its best to have the right ECU's, your ignition ECU should be Blue Red Blue colour code IIRC, and the fuelling ECU should have a blue sticker NOT a green one.

Theres a brand new fuel pump relay on eBay, and the plug is the same although the wires need moving, and one extra seperate connection on its own.

If you were closer i'd help you sort it out

Anyway before you even worry about that too much have you got a quick blow fuse and tried it yet??

vroooom ptssssh

cheers mate, I'd immagine it's wired up correctly, it went to AVA and they never mentioned anything about it being wrongly wired up and they knew it had S2 fuel pump relay wiring! so i'll leave that for now, how will i be able to tell if it's wired up wrong just incase?

Im just about to ring my mate to see if he can pick me up a fuse and relay cover

I'll check the ECU's out when i fit that fuse

SafeChav

If it runs it runs, and must be wired right. Its better to have the S1 relay but its not the end of the world. Maybe sometime soon........

DazC

iTrader: (1)

The S1 relay is still available from Ford!! It's also a technically better relay as the circuits never fail and it has a built in rev limiter (which does work), it's just 1 terminal that becomes dry jointed (cracked). The S2 relay can burn out tracks...

The S1 relay takes pulses from the distributor where as the S2 relay takes pulses from the coil.

If it had a quick blow fuse, then i'd fit a quick blow fuse back in...

vroooom ptssssh

Ok, so if im running S1 ECU's i wont have a rev limmiter?

How much would it be to get a new loom made up?

I could of got a loom out ascrapped S1 a while ago if i'd of known this was so much hassle!!!!

Cant i just put a fuse back in, get an S2 fuel pump relay and forget about it for now?

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Yes you will have a limiter but no fuel pump limiter Dave. The ignition cut out should still work in the ECU.

You could stick a fuse in and it might be fine if you know you could have shorted it out and blown the fuse....

I thought you already have an S2 fuel pump relay.

SafeChav

I think his relay is knucking fackered and hes using a bridge wire.

Dave mate don't fret its only the fuel pump wiring, easily sorted mate, trust me

Get that fuse and go from there mate, chances are it only blew because that relay has no cover.

vroooom ptssssh

Cool so if it hits the limiter the ignition will cut but the pump wont, wont cause any harm will it?

The fuse it akeit only blew because it had no cover and must of shorted out, so i'm hoping it will be fine once i get a new fuse.

I dont have any relay, always had to bridge it not even a fooked one I could get you to fix Daz

Andy, I think the whole wiring loom needs renewed, ive no idea whats what and im sure theirs allot of soldering gone on under the steering cowling for some reason


I think if i leave it justnow as it seems to be working fine, and if I decide to go EFI i'll renew the whole loom and do the EFI wiring at the same time! when funds permit