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I had a worry that the Skyline gearbox would need 3.9 drop gears to suit the 3.9 Supra diff but it turns out the gearbox is 1:1 so it is better to change the front diff to a Quaife 3.9 Atb with strenghtened casing, this allows the box to stay as it is and I gain a front ATB with stronger case over the standard open diff. The down side is that the crown wheel and pinion are smalled on the 3.9 than the 3.6 std so COULD be the weak link. As the car is a road car for 95% of the time and I have never taken a car on a drag strip and have a lot of mechanical sympathy (and I am an old bugger at 41) I doubt I will be over stressing it.
ALSO with the Skyline box and ETS pro controller I can dial the torque split back to more rwd bias if I do want to get silly with launching etc.
You will need a uprated crown wheel for the front diff Toby as the normal ones are chocolate
Thanks Jay, Bara is speccing and building it but he did say the crown wheel will be the weakest link. I will have a further chat with him about it...dont really want it breaking and taking the Quaife diff with it. I can live with a rebuild every now and then but Ł1300 to replace the whole lot each time would be a bit steep.
I wonder if the power will be able to break traction with the new Supra diff and the Quaife in the front. The tyres are only 195s on 16 inch rims so hopefully they will let go before the rest does but not had it spin up yet. I think the low weight helps to allow it to just sling it down the road
I think "fitted" is too strong a word right now LOL, I am fitting the R33 V spec box and I have the R32 single solenoid attesa pump. It will be running Ets Pro automatic software with g sensor etc plus 2wd and 4wd switch, these are fully mappable and there is a gain control in auto mode so you can adjust the bias.
The bellhousing was cut and welded by MK but the previous owner sent it to a local firm and had loads of extra weld added for more strength which may be overkill but better to be safe I guess.
I hope to have the box dummy mounted to the block this weekend as the tunnel is nearly done, then I am hoping Coley can make me up a bush for the input shaft and then I need to get the prop shafts made up but I think I have that sorted.
I have agreed with bara to try the box as is and if it is not 100% then I will obtain another box and rebuild one of them to keep the car on the road as much as possible.
I think "fitted" is too strong a word right now LOL, I am fitting the R33 V spec box and I have the R32 single solenoid attesa pump. It will be running Ets Pro automatic software with g sensor etc plus 2wd and 4wd switch, these are fully mappable and there is a gain control in auto mode so you can adjust the bias.
The bellhousing was cut and welded by MK but the previous owner sent it to a local firm and had loads of extra weld added for more strength which may be overkill but better to be safe I guess.
I hope to have the box dummy mounted to the block this weekend as the tunnel is nearly done, then I am hoping Coley can make me up a bush for the input shaft and then I need to get the prop shafts made up but I think I have that sorted.
I have agreed with bara to try the box as is and if it is not 100% then I will obtain another box and rebuild one of them to keep the car on the road as much as possible.
Has this been done before? Sounds good to be able to switch between 2wd & 4wd.
Has this been done before? Sounds good to be able to switch between 2wd & 4wd.
Yes, there are a few on here.
Coley has recently done one, there is a Turboed XR4x4, Graham C has a Mk1 escort in Green with it done and I think MK has been involved on 1 or 2 others.
Some have done a simple switch or variable "dimmer" for the pump control. Basically the pump adds pressure to the centre diff. No pressure is 2WD and then as pressure goes to max 300psi it goes more FWD through 4WD so you can shift the torque split wherever you want. The contollers can be linked to hand brake and braking so can go 2wd fro drifting if the handbrake is snatched OR lock up the centre diff to 4wd under braking for max engine braking.
The ETS pro is another step on and does it all automatically and is often used on Skylines to do away with the old Nissan technology which used a pendulum type of G sensor.
I really like the swapping as an option. You can link in a pressure guage and watch the pump do its stuff. If the pump fails them it reverts to 2wd only so if you broke a front diff you can still get home. One person on here broke a rear diff and still got home by going full FWD.
Reyland used to do this as a drive in and out conversion but he used a newer box and it was over Ł10k, I think Mike Rainbird did a much lower cost and simple controller.
There was talk of an adaptor plate but I think that was only used a few times and then shelved. I think the big cost Reyland one had a proper bellhousing made whereas our ones have the front of the Skyline box lopped off and a machined edge made for the Cossie box to be tig welded on to match. You then do a hydraulic clutch conversion using a centre push slave, Skyline flywheel and Cossie clutch cover. the Tunnel is made bigger to allow for the much larger transfer case and wider rear box. It adds just over 20kg in weight due to the bigger and stronger boxes.
Standard Skylines have run these boxes at 1000bhp although I believe 2nd and 3rd syncros can wear. Shockproof oil seems a common cure for this though but it takes a while to warm up.
Last edited by Caddyshack; 24-02-2015 at 03:11 PM.
This will be great once its all together and working toby what would you say cost will be all in with controllers ect ect
So far I have spent Ł700 on the adapted box, clutch cover, clutch, flywheel and pump.
The controller is about Ł500 but am waiting for the shipping to be confirmed.
The front diff could be seen as optional at Ł1300.
I am allowing Ł300 ish for prop shaft mods
I spent Ł200 on the clutch master cylinder.
The rest is pretty much my own welding time unless I run in to any other problems that need others to solve.
What I like about this is a standard 2nd hand box is about Ł300 to Ł400 so it should be easy to replace just that if it breaks and you can buy upgraded boxes later.
Thats exellent still under the other options out thier and it'll be switchable 4x4 2wd awesome!
Some people made their own controller or bought a cheaper basic option.
I was looking at over Ł5k for the opplliger box that I wanted which would have been better ratios but that would still need a new clutch and probably prop shafts and the hydraulic clutch.
The killer would be the fabrication if you couldn't cut the tunnel and weld in the new bits and would you want to cut up a cossie shell now they are going up and you would need the carpets re trimmed.
I am sending my car off to a trimmer for bespoke carpets.
Last edited by Caddyshack; 24-02-2015 at 05:06 PM.
I just ordered the ETS Pro, they are brilliant at service and communication. Including the shipping from the states it is Ł471. Looking on the forums they are brilliant at customer service and backup.
Bara is now building up the Quaife ATB for me with Strenghthened case and 3.9 ratio. He feels that IF the crown wheel fails it will not lunch the diff. The other option was to go to 3.6 on the Supra rear and an R&D 7 inch on the front but that is over Ł4k to spend!
So next week both of these should arrive.
Got my drive shaft and stub axle from Mark at RS breakers today (thanks)
Just need to finish the break lines and put some new pads in and we might be ready to drive again.
Off to buy an air saw and some more cutting discs so I can finish the tunnel this weekend and begin to weld it all back up. I have a small feeling that I will have enough room to run the normal clutch operation on the Skyline box as an option too.
All sounds great mate, will be some weapon when its done we need vids could you drop me a pm with details of carpet trimmer mate im gonna need this for the focus as i intend to have a trimmed interior
All sounds great mate, will be some weapon when its done we need vids could you drop me a pm with details of carpet trimmer mate im gonna need this for the focus as i intend to have a trimmed interior
I will do, I have 2 to choose from, klf and then another near Portsmouth
My mate dropped me off some 2mm steel today 1m x 1m. This matches the current tunnel so easier to weld like for like and should keep it strong. I have started to re-weld the tunnel where I know it fits. Just waiting on my new transmission jack as I need a better one.
I got the needle roller out of the end of the crankshaft today so hopefully coley can make me up a new bush.
The cossie input shaft is 15mm so the bigger 16mm skyline shaft doesn't fit the needle roller.
Yes thanks mate, made the job a lot easier an no sparks flying around. I recently put an airline ring main in 15mm around the garage so I can plug in at lots of places which makes it nice to use. I am glad I saw the air saw in the thread.
Love the build and nice to see you're cleaning her up!
Was just wondering where did you get the ramp/lift from? and if you dont mind me asking how much did it set you back? Dad's looking for something similar for our garage as we don't have enough room height wise for a proper 2 post ramp! Cheers
Love the build and nice to see you're cleaning her up!
Was just wondering where did you get the ramp/lift from? and if you dont mind me asking how much did it set you back? Dad's looking for something similar for our garage as we don't have enough room height wise for a proper 2 post ramp! Cheers
Hi,
It is a Strongman lift, it is low level so raises about 110cm, you can sink it in the floor too, which I will be doing. I looked around a lot and paid just over Ł2000 for this one. You can get them much cheaper but the hydraulic rams are then in the middle so you cannot get to the centre of the car. I have mounted the hydraulic pump on the wall with thye controls.
I have now got the gearbox bolted to the engine, I now need to finalise the angel of the gearbox in the tunnel and make the gearbox rear mount.
I have started to remake the tunnel.
Hi
You need the gearbox output shaft at the same point as it was before did you take measurements of mt75 box, or else prop ujs will be working at wrong angle
And could cause premeture wear or failure
Mark
Hi
You need the gearbox output shaft at the same point as it was before did you take measurements of mt75 box, or else prop ujs will be working at wrong angle
And could cause premeture wear or failure
Mark
Thanks for this, not sure how I will solve it as I took the MT75 box out when it broke as I was assuming a new MT75 would go back in.
Any thoughts?
I assume you mean the prop UJs could fail? I have quite a lot of room to play with at the moment so need to get this right.
Does the Supra diff conversion put the input to the diff in exactly the same place as the Cossie one? I suppose it doesn't make so much difference right at that end.
Last edited by Caddyshack; 02-03-2015 at 04:54 PM.
It is a Strongman lift, it is low level so raises about 110cm, you can sink it in the floor too, which I will be doing. I looked around a lot and paid just over Ł2000 for this one. You can get them much cheaper but the hydraulic rams are then in the middle so you cannot get to the centre of the car. I have mounted the hydraulic pump on the wall with thye controls.
Yeah dad was going to sink a 2 post ramp into the floor but this definitely seems like a better solution to that haha. Must look for a cheaper option just to stick in the garage as the roof is quite low (there's an upstairs in it so that's why haha). Thanks a lot!
Yeah dad was going to sink a 2 post ramp into the floor but this definitely seems like a better solution to that haha. Must look for a cheaper option just to stick in the garage as the roof is quite low (there's an upstairs in it so that's why haha). Thanks a lot!
My Garage has an upstairs too so that is why I had to go for a low rise.
It is as much as you need for safe hobby work and I have a stool to sit on that goes up and down plus a nice crawler so it is comfortable.
I had to take the seats out to do the cutting and welding so I thought I would stick a pic up. These are retrimmed RS Turbos, they have heated seat backs and bases. The Door Trims are done the same but with red carpet at the bottoms to mimic the T16 door cards from the 205.
Love this, and love that the car has been owned by people with progressively more taste through out the years
Good call on the exhaust! I think the old twin exit let it down a little visually. People looked at me funny when I fitted an extra silencer to my RS Turbo but at some point the sound or crying neighbours babies and barking dogs really annoys people when trying to park quietly at 10PM during the week! . I also love the wheels but personally think full anthracite would look better than the two tone. There is a Renault 5 Type 2 Turbo in red which parks near my garage with them on and its a stunning combo.
Also a little surprised that the torque drops off as quickly as it does. An intermediate map (between low and high boost) with less boost at peak torque and more at 6-7000RPM might drive a little better as the torque curve would be flatter and bhp would be pretty linear, but at the same point some people like the the large hit of peak torque.
How are you finding your scissor lift? I don't have enough room for a two post ramp, but do have enough room for one of these. Does it go high enough for comfy work, and would it hamper say a gearbox change etc.
Love this, good call on the exhaust! I think the old twin exit let it down a little. I also love the wheels but personally think full anthracite would look better than the two tone. There is a Renault 5 Type 2 Turbo in red which parks near my garage with them on and its a stunning combo.
Also a little surprised that the torque drops off as quickly as it does. An intermediate map (between low and high boost) with less boost at peak torque and more at 6-7000RPM might drive a little better as the torque curve would be flatter.
How are you finding your scissor lift? I don't have enough room for a two post ramp, but do have enough room for one of these. Does it go high enough for comfy work, and would it hamper say a gearbox change etc.
Thanks and good luck
Rob,
I am on the look out for another set of wheels to run with Winter Tyres so may go with that option. The car will get more mapping once I have the head and cams done. I havent driven it enough to comment really and have not even tried high boost yet as the gearbox let go.
I find the ramp perfect for doing the gearbox as there is easily enough room under there. I would have gone 2 poster but couldnt find one low enough. Also the scissors will not get in the way once they are sunk in the ground whereas the 2 posters are in the way (although I did look at removeble ones)
As I have been working on the gearbox I have found that I can put the box in and take it out several times per day quite easily. I am just waiting on a new, higher tansmission lift though as my current one means I need to lower the ramps to meet it.
PS, head and cams will certainly help the torque curve! But you may well find a reduction in peak torque to promote a flatter curve will be better for track etc. I prefer to do it this way after playing a lot with both approaches, however this has mostly been done on a fwd where a big lump of boost and torque meant traction was broken where as gently increasing boost up to the rev limit with less initial boost gave a nice flat torque curve (as much as was possible any way) making the power delivery more predictable.
Thanks for the link, I did consider one of this jacks but they done drop very low and I wanted is a low as a trolley jack to help get it off the floor.
I have been chatting to my mate and he made a good point that the 205 shell is shorter than the sapphire so the angles will not be as standard for the props anyway. I will bolt the old mt75 back in, put the std mounts on and take some levels off the engine and then the props and gearbox and then get the skyline as close to that as possible.
I have been chatting to my mate and he made a good point that the 205 shell is shorter than the sapphire so the angles will not be as standard for the props anyway. I will bolt the old mt75 back in, put the std mounts on and take some levels off the engine and then the props and gearbox and then get the skyline as close to that as possible.
hi
angles wont change with wheel base length ,imagin in you took a standard cosworth cut 10 inches out the middle and welded it back to gether the angle of the engine box havent changed
what you suggest is the best way ,just measure the distance from centre of the
output shaft to the floor pan the do the same measurement with skyline
mark
hi
angles wont change with wheel base length ,imagin in you took a standard cosworth cut 10 inches out the middle and welded it back to gether the angle of the engine box havent changed
what you suggest is the best way ,just measure the distance from centre of the
output shaft to the floor pan the do the same measurement with skyline
mark
I think we both meant other things, the angle of box and engine wouldn't change but if you shorten the wheelbase the angles of the ujs become more acute as any change in height or deflection becomes tighter the shorter the run. I.e 1 cm out over 1.5 m is much easier for the uj than 1cm over 30 cm.
Surely as long as the faces of the flanges line up to each other on the same horizontal and vertical plane then the props would be level?
I appreciate the help and will do as you say by measuring the centre of the std output for horizontal and vertical location.
My Garage has an upstairs too so that is why I had to go for a low rise.
It is as much as you need for safe hobby work and I have a stool to sit on that goes up and down plus a nice crawler so it is comfortable.
If you / He comes this way I can show you it.
That's cool, so it would definitely work
Thank you for the offer but unfortunately i live in caithness (very top of scotland) and would take a bit of travelling i assume haha!
That's cool, so it would definitely work
Thank you for the offer but unfortunately i live in caithness (very top of scotland) and would take a bit of travelling i assume haha!
Yes, a bit far off! If you need any pics or info let me know but to be fair their site is very good.
You can move it easily as in the lowest setting wheels pop through the bottom and it comes with a type of jack on wheels to move it. One person can just move it about.
21-02-2015, 12:19 PM
