r44flyer

Hi all,

I'm trying to diagnose a problem with my girlfriend's Ka. It has developed a ticking noise from under the bonnet, which is loud enough not to be normal.

It sounded similar to a blown exhaust manifold gasket, and with a whiff of exhaust under the bonnet I thought this is what is was, so I replaced it. However, the noise remains. It's there on tickover, and when accelerating, but not when coasting, which suggests to me it's still exhaust related... but I'm baffled.

The other option is the tappets - is it a difficult job to adjust the tappets? I've never done it before and I'm no mechanic, but I get by.

Can anyone help suggest what might be causing it before she spends a fortune at a garage?

(The car is a 52 plate Endura with under 30k miles on it.)

Many thanks
Jim

SafeChav

Have you checked other gaskets in the exhaust system? And the exhaust itself?

r44flyer

What other gaskets are there? As far as I was aware, the manifold and cat are one integral part and there are no more joins until the downpipe meets centre section...? Would it be ticking from there? I'd have thought it would more likely just blow.

There could be a hole somewhere I guess, I'll try and have another look but access is a pain in the arse without having the whole part out, which isn't easy in itself. Ho hum.

SafeChav

Im not too sure where the other gaskets/joins are but dont overlook the exhaust itself.

Hobomassiv

ITs probably the tappets m8.

Peice of piss to adjust with a feeler guage and a spanner.

Just take off the ICV and then the rocker cover, put car in 4th and push it back/forward untill the tappets are in the correct place to adjust.
Consult haynes manual.

Make sure theres plenty of oil in the engine as well, because mine gets louder when the oil gets lower. although that wont be a problem so much when i get my zetec in there

r44flyer

I don't think it is the tappets.

I checked them all and none of them needed adjustment, they were all within factory specifications. The engine has only done 26000miles, so I would hope that nothing has worn out that quickly!

However, the problem has developed into something a lot more serious now, but I'm not sure what. My girlfriend drove the car down the Birmingham for the weekend a while back, and whatever it is got worse, to the point where the car would barely run at all. It was cutting out, running rough as hell and sounded in a bad way, and the engine warning light was on. She had to leave it there and return to uni as it was undriveable.

I won't get a chance to look at it for another couple of weeks. Her dad said something about hissing and exhaust gas under the bonnet, so perhaps it is a cracked exhaust manifold. It did start off with a loud ticking noise that I thought was the gasket, but I replaced it and it carried on. Other than this I'm out of ideas until I start taking it to pieces. It sounds like a strange one though.

davecosworth

sounds like the cat to me mate ticking noise could have been were the cat came loose inside itself and now it has turned on its self blocking the exhaust flow and this will be the reason for the poor running and engine light on, does it run worst as it get warm

r44flyer

I don't know to be honest, I wasn't there when it got to its worst. The ticking noise was there for a while (couple of weeks maybe) before I started looking into it, and it got progressively worse to the point where she didn't want to drive it. I think she said it wouldn't get up to speed at all, plus it sounded like a bag of spanners, which would also indicate a blocked exhaust. It's worth a try I suppose so I'll look into that when I get down to brum where the car is next week.

Is it normal for the cat to break down like that considering its age? This is one thing that puts me off this theory as normally they would last for ages before going.

r44flyer

If it is the cat, does anyone know a good place to get reasonably priced exhaust parts?

Bearing in mind the cat is one piece with the manifold, my impression so far is that it ain't gonna be cheap!

Kwik-fit reckon it's a dealer only part because the radiator has to come out. Is this true, or can it be done without stripping the car to bits?

SafeChav

HINT: Remove the time bomb!?

davecosworth

yeh some times they break up early normaly cos the oxygen sensor faules and courses it to run rich coursing a hot spot in the cat. the cats retail at about Ł190 +vat you dont have to get one from main dealer they are availible from benchmark or A R E (euro car parts) etc etc. i would suggest taking it off for now and smash the middle out if you can this will get you out of trouble for now.

r44flyer

Well I finally managed to get round the removing the cat today, and it didn't sound like it had broken up. Shaking it about a bit didn't reveal any rattling noises from inside it, anyway. Surely it would make some noise if it had broken up? I dunno.

The only way to tell is to replace it and see what happens, I suppose. This isn't the ideal solution as we could do without the expense (which could be unnecessary) so close to christmas It'll be a used part anyway.

If it turns out not to be the cat, I'm at a complete loss as to what it might be, and we'll have to bite the bullet and hand it over to a garage.

craigos

these do have soft cams

Frankie

Its not the A/C cutting in and out,that makes a kinda ticking noise

r44flyer

UPDATE:

Well, we noticed something else today, which I'm annoyed I didn't spot earlier. There is air leaking from the no.1 spark plug hole, how this is happening I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure this is what is causing the ticking. The plug isn't firing properly, though it does still fire occasionally, so something has happened to it. Can anyone suggest what that might be? I am assuming it has just fallen apart.

The plugs haven't been changed since new, it was assumed they were part of the service schedule, which they are not. So, they are properly rusted into the head. I can take it to bits to investigate damage, but it will have to wait til after xmas now. As for rebuilding it if anything internal is damaged, well that's beyond my skill, not to mention the fact that I might not have all the tools for the job.

My initial fears are that part of the plug has broken away and has ruined the bore/cylinder/valves etc etc. It's a head off job either way, I just hope it's not too badly damaged as my girlfriend can ill afford such an expensive repair.

SafeChav

If there is pressure leaking then that probably will be the sound. I doubt very much its as made as your anticipating.

Does this engine have the cast iron head still like the earlier HCS pushrod engines? I had one of those and i literally almost dragged the car across the drive removing the plugs cos they were rusted in.

SOAK them in WD40 a few hours before and use a nice long breaker bar to get them out!

r44flyer

Yes, it's a cast iron pushrod engine, same as the Fiesta. It's a Valencia, which is based on the Kent.

I'll use rust remover on the plugs, to get as much crap off/out of them as possible, then soak them for days with penetrating oil before going near them with a socket. The thing is, if there's air leaking out, doesn't this mean that the plug has failed in a big way, ie bits have fallen off into the cylinder?

SafeChav

It may have just corroded, and then the compression has blown the rot on the plug out.

The plug is going to rust away well before that head does lol

Penetrating oil on its own should see you through, and as i say use a nice long breaker bar or ratchet to undo them so you have more effort against them

r44flyer

Not necessarily a good idea to put a breaker bar on them, if they are properly seized that's a sure fire way to snap them off at the taper. But there's little way round it if they are welded in there.

I'll favour the softly softly appraoch I reckon, after a liberal soaking with oil. Is it best to try it on a hot, warm or cold engine you think?

SafeChav

Yea i see what your saying, but i remember when i did mine i had the smallest pissiest ratchet and i struggled like fuck and snapped the ceramic off most of them

Not that it mattered anyway but looking back a longer one would of made life easier! You would have to be trying to snap a plug in half IMO.

I'd try it cold, and if its not playing ball, run it up to temperature and try again.

r44flyer

Well, bad news.

I soaked the plugs in penetrating oil for a couple of days, cycling the engine up to temperature and down again half a dozen times in the process, put the torque wrench on the first plug and it snapped off with no effort whatsoever The same happened with the next 2, and the 4th plug only came out because it had been done a few months ago in a failed attempt by a garage to change the plugs as part of a service. (They snapped that one off and gave up doing the rest as part of the service and said it was going to cost a fortune to do the rest.)

On the first plug I could see clean metal on less than half of the plug's circumference, meaning it had already rusted through the outer casing most of the way round, which is why it snapped with no effort at all.

So, the head has to come off and get taken to an engineering company to get the rest of the plugs out. If anyone can recommend a good place in Birmingham or Leeds that'd be great. We haven't yet decided if I'm going to remove the head and take it somewhere, or get a garage to do the whole job from start to finish. Obviously the latter is far more expensive, but it would be quicker.

Needless to say I'll be removing the new plugs every couple of months to grease them, hell even replacing them would be worth the few quid!

Thanks for all the help so far, folks

Jim

SafeChav

Thats just really bad luck.

I expect a lot of this falls down to it not being serviced properly. Im not saying you yourself, but we all know too well theres a lot of garages out there that will take your money but rarely actually do the work.

Being perfectly honest you shouldnt need to remove them so often, grease them when you fit them and i doubt you will have a problem again. No doubt the factory plugs, which are fitted dry.......

r44flyer

Yeah, it was bad luck. They were rusted through so I didn't stand a chance.

I just can't believe the plugs aren't part of the Ford service, at least a removal and inspection for crying out loud! The car was bought new from the local dealer and was serviced there while under warranty, but they didn't touch the plugs once, which is standard practice until 30k miles when they are changed... by which time they are rusted solid!

I'm also trying to source a second hand head that's got no plugs in it, it might end up cheaper than having a machine shop remove the remainder of the plugs, but to be honest I have no idea what to expect to pay for either.

SafeChav

Keep a look out in the scrappies, we get the odd few KA's down here.

Why not have a bash yourself? You can't go far wrong with some drill bits and a tap especially on a cast iron head

r44flyer

Always an option I suppose. What's the plan? Use progressively larger bits until what's left in the threads can be picked out? I'm a bit worried I'll cock it up and have a useless head. I imaigne the plugs are pretty much part of the head now so will probably be a bugger to get out.

EDIT: As an aside, is the Ford TIS available on this forum somewhere?

SafeChav

Well yea, the plugs should be soft compared to the head.

Start with a small pilot hole accurately drilled, and work from there.

You have't really got much to lose and the more you do the less the machine shop have to do, so should cost less overall if worst comes to worse.

r44flyer

True.

The centres of the plugs have come out by the way, so I won't be needing a pilot hole! Basically it's just the threaded section with the side electrode at the bottom that's left, I have the rest of it, centre electrode etc, in my hand lol.

SafeChav

What about them stud extractor things then? Never used one myself but isnt that what they are for?

r44flyer

No, not really. Stud extractors go over a stud, whereas with these plugs I'm going inside the thread and removing from the inside out, as it were.

SafeChav

Ah yea

Could try tack welding a rod into the hole?

r44flyer

Not enough to grab onto. It's a really thin sheath that's stuck in there, I even thought of tapping the hole to a size smaller than the plug bore and essentially cut through what's left of the plug from the inside out, which might then fall to pieces.

Or, perhaps with a good pair of needle nose pliers I could grab the side electrode at the bottom and see if I can get enough purchase to turn it.

SafeChav

If its rusted i doubt it will turn. I would try my luck with drills and taps personally.

You may even get away with leaving the head on!! You could spin it over before putting the new plugs in any hopefully blow the crap out the hole.

See if you can borrow a camera that they use to check the state of bores. Goes in through the plug hole so you dont have to remove the head

r44flyer

I wouldn't trust leaving the head on, even one small piece left in there could ruin the cylinder or get stuck in a valve or something.

SafeChav

If you remove the rockers so all the valves are fully closed, and then spin the engine over on the starter with the plugs removed i wouldnt of thought there would be anything left in the bores with the amount of turbulence that will create

Up to you though, i know there is potential for things to go wrong, but hence the bore scope

r44flyer

Might be a way to go.

However, I'll concentrate on how to remove what's left of the plug thread from the plug bores for the time being! Tapping might be the way to go, and I have no taps of course, so will have to get some.

SafeChav

Indeed, before you start it may be worth looking into the price of taps. I know some can be very expensive if they aren't popular thread sizes.

r44flyer

I don't suppose you know the diameter of the plugs on these engines?

SafeChav

Not off the top of my head

mentalasanything

Do you not have anything left that you can get a socket/breaker bar onto? Surely they can't be that welded in there that you cant use a breaker bar??? I had them stuck in hard on my old MK4 1.3, but a breaker bar, extension and plug socket saw to them!

Lee

SafeChav

From what i gather mate they have snapped clean and the hex part has snapped off the threaded part