Shandy-Ade

Well i have just worked out why the car wont start, the cam belt was snapped, i parked the car in the drive on friday evening then when i went to start on saturday morning nothing, the alternator belt still turns.
What are my chances that valves are bent? would trying to start the car cause more damage? my brother seems to think that because the alternator belt is turning that would cause trouble, but i thought that pully was just for water pump.


Any info appreciated.

Thanks

PS the car is a FRST

320 bhp

yes mate engine will still be turning over and will have proberly bent a few valves can have head of in a couple of hours piece of piss

SafeChav

Theres a good chance there will be bent valves, although just cranking over if the pistons met the valves i would expect the engine just to jam and stop, so you might be lucky.

First port of call would be to get a new belt and give it a try really.....

antony215

When the cambelt snap's on a cvh engine you can be 95% sure you've bent a few valves

SafeChav

Just have to hope hes lucky as it seems he turned it off ok and it wouldnt re-start, so he might be in luck

Fingers crossed!

antony215

If he ain't bent any valves then he is one lucky man and i will be getting him to pick my lotto numbers this week all the cvh engine's i've had/seen with snaped belts they've done atleast 2 valves Ady Si did you keep trying to turn it over or did you look at the belt when it did'nt start fist time

Shandy-Ade

I kept trying to turn it over thinking it to be the starter motor i know i bent 3 valves on my 2i but at that time i was driving so it was bound to, i'm guessing the belt snapped as i turned the engine off after parking up, all i can do is hope

SafeChav

Like i say get a belt and time it up, and see if it starts. You certainly have nothing to lose.....you might be lucky. if not at least you haven't wasted any money

Shandy-Ade

True, this will be the way forward, will let you know how lucky if any i was

SafeChav

Just quickly, looking back over it, have you actually removed the cam cover and looked for a snapped belt, because you mention the alternator belt, but nothing else?

Shandy-Ade

Yeah remvoed the cam cover, and noticed the belt was loose, so pulled it and it came away snapped in half

SafeChav

Ah ok just checking

antony215

Id take the head off mate and see if any are bent if you just put another belt on and a few are bent it might make things worse when it turn's over it's only about 30 for a gen ford headgasket and about another 20-30 for a belt you could half that if you buy non genuine ford parts but it's up to you like SafeChav said you MIGHT!! be lucky but all the one's ive had go have bent atleast 2 valve's i had an XR3i going along not fast and it cut out and i did the same tryed turning it over a few time's then checked the belt and it was snapped when i took the head off i had bent every valve

SafeChav

I think hes better trying a belt first, after all the belt hasn't gone while driving it, and i dont think the starter would have the power to bend a valve, and you know its always a shitter when you spend money that isnt necessary.

trevCOSS

iTrader: (6)

Change the belt then turn it over by hand (on the crank pulley with a socket and rachet, no plugs in) if it jams up then take the head off, if it seems to turn over freely then put the plugs back in and try starting it, this way you minimise the risk of doing more damage if you do have bent valves

Shandy-Ade

Thanks for the tip mate

Shandy-Ade

Well, i have just had a mechanics round to look at my car, he's taken the rocker cover off, put a spanner on the cam pully, turned it and the engine is free, he is amazed that it hasn't done any valves or more to the point don't believe it hasn't, so he's going to fir a belt tomorrow and see how we get on i'm just hoping

SafeChav

Spinning the cam over with out the bottom end isn't really going to prove anything, especially seeing as it wouldn't be strange for the cam to lock up (depending on where the pistons are in their stroke .......)

From what you are saying hes done its impossible to tell if valves are bent that way very odd

Shandy-Ade

The bottom end is still on, he opened up the pistons, and then turned the cam pully to open the valves to see if they hit, but they dont

SafeChav

No i mean if the belt isn't spinning the bottom end over.

Even with the valves in-tact there will be points where they hit the pistons, like when the pistons are ATDC, and with the pistons down the valves won't necessarily hit anything, depending on how badly bent and which way the bend faces etc, but doeesn't mean to say they aren't bent.......

Shandy-Ade

Oh i see, will know for sure this evening

SafeChav

Sorry for the confusion

Best of luck let us know how you get on

HORNETS7

it will have bent 2 valves for certain!!!

as u say in the other post uve been trying to start it for ages!!

thing is if u replace the belt and the valves are bent they might snap a head of then u end up with a pitted or holed piston and a pitted head which is then no good ! so u can end up 3 times worse than u are now!

as safechav says no way can u tell if the valves are bent by truning over the cam pulley on its own! they only have to be bent less than 1mm and it wont seat properly! loose compression blah blah blah!!!!

i would remove head and do it right first time or u will be sorry!

SafeChav

Compression test is the ideal way before attempting to start really......

Shandy-Ade

Hmmmm, i definantly don't want to cause more damage i need the car for the weekend, but the mechanic i'm using has owned cossie's so i don't really want to tell him what to do.

The best i can describe what he did yesterday was, he took the alternator belt pully off, put a spanner on another pully inside the drivers wheel to turn the bottom half of the engine over, then put a spanner on the cambelt pully and was lifting the hydraulics to see if any were loose or jammed, but they never.

This is a pic of the car as is now:

SafeChav

I can see what he's done, but it can't be relied upon to say whether the valves are gone or not.

The best thing you could ever do is to get a new belt time it up and compression test it.

However, due to the nature of how its gone it SHOULD be ok to try and start it (when belts go at high speed things get very bent etc).

If he owns a cossie he probably knows a bit, at very bare minimum try either turning the engine over by hand before starting, or disconnect the coil pack plug and spin it over quickly to see if it sounds alright.

Shandy-Ade

Thanks safechav, i'll disconect the coil first just to make sure, he used to own cossie's but said he sold them as he used to have the engine out nearly every week fitting new pistons where he ragged it, he owned an escort van with escort cossie wheels on, he said the guy he sold it to goes down to ace cafe so some of you may have seen it about

Shandy-Ade

Quick update, the mechanic has just fitted the timing belt, started the car and it's slightly tappy, so he's just gone to get his compressor to do a test

HORNETS7

i take it u mean a guage to do a compression check?

this will tell u if any bore have a leak ie bent valves!

Shandy-Ade

That's what i meant well i was getting compression on all 4 put the rocker cover back on and all was fine, no bent valves gawd knows how!! even the mech couldn't believe it, so i'm well chuffed

HORNETS7

so its back running now?

good news !!!!!!!!

Shandy-Ade

Yeah all back running sweet, i let him have a go in it and he said it's boosting at 6 bar, anyone know what that will be in psi?

SafeChav

I had a good feeling about this........usually bent valves occur when the belt snaps while the engine is running, i didn't think the starter would be enough to bend them

Your a very lucky man now stop pushing it and change your cam belt more regularly

And its more than likely it was tapping because he span the top end over and squeezed all the oil out of the hydraulic lifters

trevCOSS

iTrader: (6)

6 bar I seriously hope not

Shandy-Ade

I haven't ragged it yet, but after the mech had finished i told him to take it for a spin, and i'm sure he said it was boosting at 6 bar, why is that a bad thing??

SafeChav

PMSL

If it is you might want to ask him to swap, thats gotta be a cossie muncher running 90psi

Think he means 6psi

trevCOSS

iTrader: (6)

because its about 87psi not many frst will survive that for long.

SafeChav

1 Bar = about 15psi.......so how can 6 bar be 43.5?

SafeChav

Owwww u were quick on the edit then

trevCOSS

iTrader: (6)

1 bar =14.5 and because I made a mistake