The only comment worth making on variable cam timing is that in a few years we will have electrically operated valves, and then mapping em will fookin rock


You mean like the:
"Headlamp angle under acceleration and braking" maps Mark?

It just isnt fooking funny anymore is it?
And as for all this new cambus stuff, its gotta end in tears surely?


Yes mate, if they use an eprom of flash data system, we can probably emulate it. However, security is the bane of our lives and its not even been mentioned here

Simon gave you a glimse when he mentioned "Security Checksum Algorythm's"

The OEM's make a HUGE effort to stop us doing what we do

 

so is "getting into" an ecu along similar lines of "hacking"? ie breaking there codes etc.
how long can/does it take to get past security? ie does it cost u alot of ur time etc?

wot if i turned up to a pre booked mapping session and u had never mapped a car the same as mine before?

 

canbus !!!

from a quick count i can tell you that there is no fewer than 7 ecm's as a minimum on todays cars , all have multi comm patterns via wired pairs as production data communication , all with digital atributes , with lots of 'if' possibilities !!

and as for the data speed through can , well , let s put it this way , alot of the diagnostic software thats about to day , has to have some form of converter to in effect slow the data thats in the syatem so it can be read , wether it be primary or secondary comm speed !!

 

do ya not think they will ask wot u got ???


but , ive not yet been told 'sorry cant do that' in the many years ive been dealing with msd !!

that includes diesels etc etc ! (and vans )

 

No, its not so much hacking as investigating and drawing on other experts in certain fields to get a global solution.

On 99% of stuff we can just remove the eprom itself, put it in the programmer and extract its data...

Then we begin the process seen throughout this post of sourcing maps etc etc etc.

Once all that is done, we have found the maps and modified em, we cant just burn it back to a chip and rteplace it, as i presume most of you would expect?

Oh no.. we then have to get past the checksum security built into the ecu..

Alter 1 single digit in that file, and the ecu wont allow the engine to start....

the bit youve just read 5pages of, is the extremely simple bit


Well we did an 04 Megane DCi on Monday and that took about 11hrs if that helps?
(Tricky little thing actually.. keyless entry, the lot )

 

I know its a CaNbus you git.... bloody N's next to the M

 

answers stu! and in easy terms for us lay men to understand
couple more questions for u..

so is it legal for u to "break into" for example a megane ecu and make changes to the map?
how easy is it to put bk to standard for example for warrenty purposes?

cheers

 

Yes. Its legal in so much as the "owner" of the equipment asked us to change it, so we did.

putting back to standard is usually a simple job.

 

cant think of anymore questions right now but i am sure i will

cheers

 

Some more good info there

 

Bloody ell.. 2100 views

Not bad at all in only 4days

 

good thread thats why

 

Excellent thread, i've been here for about the last three hours reading everything and it's been a bloody good insight into it all as i really didn't have a clue, still don't on some of the things mentioned but it's still a interesting thread

 

what would be wicked if if you uploaded the sound of a car just starting to det before retarding the ignition

 

when u live map a car stu, say for example its 9am mid of january and its -2 outside, cos of the cold air the car is less likely to det?? but wot happens then when i drive my car in august and its 35 degrees outside??
how do u allow for this?

 

simple, you have a table for ACT to take account of this. as ACT increases, you retard (or advance less) the ignition timing as this table (taken from a demo version of the SECS S8 management software shows:

 

Someone said they had saved all this to a Word doc or similar i recall?

May i have a copy please, as it will make a damn good guide for my updated website im working on today

 

 

belongs in the techy essay bit

spooky mind as i've just read the one about map sensors

 

On the SECS Ignition retard for air temp is it not based on Load as well.

 

That version of software is yonks old.
It is based on load aswell on the final release version.

 

 

None of which helps my Word doc hunt guys

 

Page 2

 

Page 2 again

 

i wouldnt know how stu

 

Someone commented on how many word pages it took up...

never mind.. il start copying it mayself later... thought it would make an interesting section for my website

 

......

 

Airflow is the one thing that determines engine power

 

Right guys, i an attempt to fix this damn topic weve had to delete the last page of replies... sorry

 

Lets get this going again, beats all the arguing

 

cracking topic!!!!

read thru the lot

very interesting as mines gonna go off to be done soon, but in reading the EECIV bit..... im probly gonna be hated

 

By the way - Stu I don't know if it;'s the right place to write that but you webside still says you can map EEC IV and you say you can't - one version must be changed

 

Mapping the fuel map is rather straigthforward with the correct tools, but I've always wondered how the tuners tune the ignition maps? Of course watching for detonation is one thing, but that really helps only in one part of the map. Do tuners usually play with the not boosted part of the ignition map much at all?
Also an original ignition map of a RST would be interesting to see.

 

I can map EEC IV and V mate

 

Hi,
I tend to spend FAR more time in teh off boost areas than i do teh on boost areas of the map. I personally class driveability, power delivery and fuel consumption as equally if not more important than outright horsepower.

 

good question Jesse

like you, i agree that if you've got a reasonable wb lambda sensor and controller it's relatively easy to setup the fuelling reasonably accurately, but what about the ignition?

what tools do we need (for example det cans, knock sensors, EGT probes, accelerometers etc) to be able to setup the ignition maps well? and what are we looking to do in all areas of the maps? for example on max boost we want to advance for power but not too much for det, but what about coming on boost (where we may want to run not as much advance for higher egt temps to give energy to the turbo for faster spool up, for example), around idle, below idle (big advance to get speed up again?), cruising, gentle acceleration, off throttle (cut ignition and fuel?).

many questions in there i'm sure stu, but we'd appreciate your experience and teaching as much as possible (and any other tuners, pro or diy)

 

Seems then that you do your work properly.

 

Now I'm really confused... there must be your other self speaking to me from time to time or something.


I asked you a couple of times about mapping EEC IV in my Escos and you said no - you've got the equipment and knowledge but to much R&D to do it hmm...

The only explanation behind all this is that Escos EEV IV is something different then EEC IV on other Fords....

 

No, its because you were talking about fitting larger injectors and turbo as i recall... thats a different kettle of fish to mapping on existing equiptment

Il address the other questions later as theyre not so easy to answer.. keep em coming as i enjoy this topic