Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Guess it depends on how good the front end of the software is Melv...

Just come off the phone to Dumped - if you go on the SBD website, you can DL a trial version of the software used to program their ECU!

Something like http://www.sbdev.co.uk

But dont blame me if thats a porn site lol

Killed an hour at work anyways

Neil.

Petrucci

PJay

for more, come on stu you know i could swallow this all night your on a winner here, what you lose out in mapping money you'll gain back double with engine rebuilds AND a proper map lol

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I would literally increase the number in the fuel map that corresponded to the area i was lean at. 255 is max, so if we were already at 255, we have problems, but none that cant be worked around.

The advance would be done last and again, i would simply do it from the advance screen you have seen already and adjust the number highlighted when the problem arose.



Not certain what you mean by counter intuitive Matt, but essentially, as long as the AFR remains constant, retarding the combustion initiation will increase EGT's and vice versa UNLESS we advance to detonation or pre Ig, in which case EGT's will be far worse than had it been retarded.

Does that help guys?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Great minds eh PJay

PJay

You know it makes sence, step one to mapping followed by here's my number

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I dont see how this tutorial can progress further without me literally showing you how to map a car now, whiuch im simply not about to do

Any ideas..? I was enjoying this as much as you tbh... its been a while since i contributed anything usefull to this place

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

No. Depends on teh application.

90Degrees act's ALL DAY are fine for a stage 1 escort turbo as millions have proved over the years.

Do the same with a 600bhp YB and you will regret the idea rather rapidly..

Horses for courses, as with anything.

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Stu:

I would like more info

I'm not after the numbers as thats what I would pay you for (imho the map values are what takes the years of experience / intelligence to be able to do...).

I reckon I can get my head around the methodology of putting a map into a chip now you have explained it , but I would like to know more about how you implement the functionality - say a high ACT retardation, or a low ECT enrichment .

Are they separate lookup tables, or are they simple parameters / co-efficients in an equation already implemented in the ECU (depandant upon ECU type)?

Tell me to fook off if you want lol

Neil.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

seperate tables completely mate.

We have for example:
Advance with ACT
Fuel with ACT

Take fuel for example:
Its usually a simple 16x1 map with each point a temperature.

each of the seperate temperature plots will either add, or in teh case of excessive ACT's subtract, a degree of furl from the main map.

Same goes for spark, and same again for coolant temps.

wes

You mean like this Stu:

Rick

Stu - is it delta in the way i use it - ie:

Negative delta would be: When a disturbance/change tries to alter the value being controled, this value reacts in such a way that its new changed value is less sensitive to the disturbance......

i can see why u might have trouble

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

cool

16 crops up quite a bit - I guess the ADC's in the input stages are 4 bit?

Christ, so many questions lol

Takes me back to uni

Neil.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Yes Rick..
Apply that to fuel flow in disturbed air and then try to explain it in such a way as everyone will know what it means.... almost fookin impossible!

I know what it does, and how it reacts to the throttle, and that is enough for me to do my job, but to explain the fooker to someone... especially as thats one in a LONG list of transient fuel corrections........

There is then transient SPARK correction.. oh the joy

Wes.. Yes,
That old Pectel prog shows exactly how it is... top man. Id have shown some display to illustrate my post had i not been at home with no software at my disposal. But youve done a fine job...

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Lordy - what would mr goode say?

Neil.

wes

He'd say "whats that do then?"

Rick

Lol - fun isn't it.
My head is battered at the moment. Today i managed to get a working simulation of a microprocessor i designed at gate level. The software i used is 80000 pounds per licence. It's linked in with the american MOD, and ive had to sign stuff that anything i do or design in the lab, i can't take out or use for my benifit.....

I now have a massive string of 0's and 1's which i have to convert into assembler instructions.

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Give it a go!

Neil.

EscortWRC

Actually, I meant writing a blurb about why EGT goes up as timing is retarded when all other things stay the same.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Ah right..
Well, doesnt really need a massive essay as its simple enough so il do a few lines whilst i wait for this kettle.

The cooling system is actually designed to transfer heat away from the combustion process when we get the burn to produce the most pressure at around 20 crank degrees after TDC.

If we retard so peak power is past this point, we start to drop out of the water jacket andf lose a lot of the thermal condution properties designed into the combustion area. Due to this, the exhaust gas leaves the exhuast valve, somewhat hotter than it may ideally have done.

that was reason 1:

Reason 2 is it hasnt had as long to cool down as it would if we had set light to it earlier

That help?

Rick

I think it's intuitive actually.

The simple way i explain it to people is that when ignition is retatded, the same amount of fuel and air is being consumed - so same energy is being consumed. However - we know less power is being produced - so this leaves a surpless of energy which manifests itself as heat

EscortWRC

I knew the answer, just didn't know if everyone else did.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

So why didnt you write it out then you git?.. im trying to eat ice cream and drink tea here as well!!

Rick

acceptable is a loose word. U can map it so it's safe at 100 degrees - but is that acceptable if u want power?

GARETH T

cracking thread still guys

as for what you a/f you are going towards i think this picture sums it up nicely



i said it before, but people who map cars impressive me so much! theres alot more to it then people think! somemany things to keep your eye on!


i wish i stayed off work today and put some info into this thread

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

How easy would it be to 'decode' my chip? As it is an unknown vintage lol

Stu - If i sent it to you, would you be able to bung the raw data into excel (for a fee! )

Neil.

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

Best subject on here for a very long time

I can not imagine how much time you must have spent hacking into OEM ecu's and then trying to work out what all the numbers mean



I fitted the Emerald ecu because it is fairly cheap and you can have a play yourself All I managed to achieve was 17mpg

Here's a screen shot of my injection map (after proper mapping) for comparison to other systems.




I've heard a lot of negative stuff about Emerald on here, but only when it's turbo related

Is their just not enough adjustment for fuel/ignition advance under boost or am I missing something?

Mark

EscortWRC

I didn't because you are on a roll and I didn't want to slow you down

PJay

One for the technical archives me thinks, good information people, stu when i'm up in april if i pester you with too many questions just tell me to f off lol

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Very simple for me to read and inspect it, but i dont do excel mate.. far to complicated


Gareth,
Good Stoich chart, top work mate


Mark,
I dont think theres anything wrong with emerald personally. Its a while since i used it, but it seemed ok to me.

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Well could you dump it as a text file?

Even if its still in hex? I'd just like the raw info out of curiosity - dont really care what format...

I get an odd misfire occasionally when i lift slightly before accelerating again - cant decide if its a software glitch, or just 'a cossie thing'

Neil.

wes

This link may be quite usefull to you if you want to learn specifically about the format in which a cossie map is written:

http://www.amelek.gda.pl/avr/uisp/srecord.htm

The cossie files are called ".MOT" files (Motorolla format)

Here are the 1st few lines of a cossie map that i prepard earlier :



There are 513 lines of code, and you need to know how to format the code, just dumping it into excel won't work if you don't set the fields up correctly, you'll lose alot of 0's

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

I have the source program code instruction list for most cossie chips as a text file.
Any body want to buy it.....offers ????

PJay

No, but you can send it to me for fook all if ya like lol

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Its not a "Cossie thing" thats for sure.

Do you realise how much text that would be?

BRB

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Pjay...... Nothing is free in this life, sorry mate

It has taken me approx 5 years to decode around 17 versions of the
weber ecu cosworth chips L1,L2,L6,L8 and P8
(including protected ones!!)

foreigneRS

put it on ebay, and sell individal copies for say 50 quid each.

for each auction, have 10 available. 10 people buy it, you got 500 squid, and then you can do it again.

you could put it in an excel file with password protected sheet to make it a little bit difficult for the buyers to distribute to their mates. and anyway, if i bought it for 50 quid, i wouldn't want anyone else having it for nothing, they can buy their own, would be worth it for that price.

PJay

You are a dedicated man

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Wes - Cheers for the link


Fascinating stuff, but I'm sure sleep loss is gonna be the end result lol

I'm quite handy with Excel, so formatting the .mot file I could probably manage, but making sense of that little lot would be impossible without some serious background knowledge!

Stu - can you save the separate tables in any other format? I used Excel just as an example... From what I saw earlier on (the pics of the maps in tabular and graph format) There is a LOT of other code in there

i.e. JUST the tables for ign and fuel. Maybe the corrections for ACT, ECT too

Neil.

PJay

Neil download some mapping software from pevtel it comes with a few demo maps for you to pull apart, best one being a t6 4 cyl