My new trackday Clio Mk1 : aka the Cli-Y0 (bought donor car pg 3)
11-07-2011, 02:19 PM
#124
can you let me know who your going to use for shafts, as im going to need some for my escort, got my mb6 for 250 
also, what are you doing about the crank pulley, mines really thick and fouls the chassis leg so looking for one with just one belt insted of 3,
might have to make one
also, what are you doing about the crank pulley, mines really thick and fouls the chassis leg so looking for one with just one belt insted of 3,
might have to make one
11-07-2011, 04:58 PM
#125
Dont know yet mate, will see on things like clearance once i have the engine out the donor and offer it up to the clio.
With regards to shafts, IIRC it was these guys who did some decent work for steveboyslim:
http://www.trackandrally.co.uk/
With regards to shafts, IIRC it was these guys who did some decent work for steveboyslim:
http://www.trackandrally.co.uk/
28-10-2011, 05:56 PM
#126
Bit of an update at last, although only a relatively minor one still.
Put my back out recently at the time I wanted to get the donor apart (tax/mot running out and didnt want to renew them) so the lads from Michael Woodford Motorsport stepped in and yanked it apart with me barely having to lift a finger one evening in exchange for me buying the 3 of them dinner
So big thanks to Charles/Mike/Jack for that.
Blatant plug: www.michaelwoodfordmotorsport.com
Couple of pictures:
Then it was time to get the engine back to my workshop and try it onto a clio subframe for size, so I bought a spare one as I figure its useful to have one still in the car to be able to take reference point measurements from in situ to give me a hint of what bodywork I will need to chop about, and then one to work on mounting the engine onto.
From an initial trial, it does look like the engine and box is fundamentally going to fit in the hole, so hopefully the project is indeed possible.
One thing that happened which I didnt expect is that the exhaust manifold actually looks like it may fit inside the subframe, and it might be possible to therefore get the engine and box in and running in N/A form initially rather than having to do all the custom work to fit the turbo straight away.
If I can do this what I will do is make a 2.5" exhaust system up to fit the car, then join that to the standard honda N/A manifold for now, and then at a later date I'll have the exhaust in place ready and can get the exhaust downpipe and manifold etc made up later on with nothing other than the bit joining the exhuast to the standard manifold wasted.
That also means I can leave the standard (ie no spending required) clutch in place too, as it wont take the turbo power but will be fine on a standard engine initially.
So if I do it that way, there shouldnt be a lot of expense to just get it in and running (off the top of my head about 600 for driveshafts, 400 on exhaust parts, few hundred quid on engine mounts and oil etc, 400 ish for an inlet maniold, so probably only around 2K or so which seems a small investment to get a chance to test out the dynamics of the car before I start throwing money on a turbo and custom manifold etc), and then once I know the car fundamentally works, I can just whip the engine out and do all the turbo conversion bits to it, and if I think it doesnt work well enough, I'll put it in a mini instead and put a williams engine back in the clio and accept its just slow, lol
These pictures havent really worked, but basically this is it offered up to the subframe, at this stage the orientation of them isnt in its final position, effectively the frame needs to tip back a little, which will bring the front end of it up as the driveshaft to the subframe height is already in the correct position, so I need to rotate it about that point which means the front will come up slightly so I think my initial thoughts about the sump and the subframe clashing are going to be correct, but by a lot less than I had thought, and more importantly, not on the track control arm mounting points like I had feared, so hopefully I can just remake the subframe where there is an issue and leave the engine alone.
The inlet manifold is going to foul on the bulkhead as thats right back as far as the back of the frame but at the height it sits there isnt clearance in the bay at that point, but thats not an issue as I am planning on replacing that anyway with an eidelbrook one anyway which has much shorter runners so the plenum will sit further forward and hopefully wont need any metal taking out of the car at all, or at least a lot less than the standard intake would require.
This one is showing the width of the engine relative to the subframe, I took a look at where the centre line sits on Jason's integra type R which was over at our workshop too and I've based the positioning on that so its in roughly the same position, if anything Ive nudge it very slightly to the drivers side, but only by literally half an inch.
The bottom pulley actually has 3 belt sections on it, alternator is the furthest one in (lucky for me!) and then its the aircon and then power steering, I wont be using the aircon or power steering pumps though so the outer two belts can go, which means that the widest part of the engine will only sit about an inch to the right of the centreline of the subframe mounting points front and rear, and when I went and looked in the engine bay of the clio there is nothing in the way at all there which will need removing, so engine wise it looks ok for fitting.
With regards to the box, it looks like its going to clear the subframe just fine, but where it goes under the chassis rail i think I'll need to chop that rail out and remake it slightly further up, but that looks relatively straightforward to do.
Apologies for the crap light on the pictures, normally the light in the workshop is awesome but we've just taken all 64 foot of flourescant tube down to put different roof inslutation material up (was just reclaimed polystyrene before but we got a good deal on some thick loft insulation, buy one get 3 free! so are redoing it with that) and so its just got a lead light pointing at it at the moment.
Put my back out recently at the time I wanted to get the donor apart (tax/mot running out and didnt want to renew them) so the lads from Michael Woodford Motorsport stepped in and yanked it apart with me barely having to lift a finger one evening in exchange for me buying the 3 of them dinner
So big thanks to Charles/Mike/Jack for that.Blatant plug: www.michaelwoodfordmotorsport.com
Couple of pictures:
Then it was time to get the engine back to my workshop and try it onto a clio subframe for size, so I bought a spare one as I figure its useful to have one still in the car to be able to take reference point measurements from in situ to give me a hint of what bodywork I will need to chop about, and then one to work on mounting the engine onto.
From an initial trial, it does look like the engine and box is fundamentally going to fit in the hole, so hopefully the project is indeed possible.
One thing that happened which I didnt expect is that the exhaust manifold actually looks like it may fit inside the subframe, and it might be possible to therefore get the engine and box in and running in N/A form initially rather than having to do all the custom work to fit the turbo straight away.
If I can do this what I will do is make a 2.5" exhaust system up to fit the car, then join that to the standard honda N/A manifold for now, and then at a later date I'll have the exhaust in place ready and can get the exhaust downpipe and manifold etc made up later on with nothing other than the bit joining the exhuast to the standard manifold wasted.
That also means I can leave the standard (ie no spending required) clutch in place too, as it wont take the turbo power but will be fine on a standard engine initially.
So if I do it that way, there shouldnt be a lot of expense to just get it in and running (off the top of my head about 600 for driveshafts, 400 on exhaust parts, few hundred quid on engine mounts and oil etc, 400 ish for an inlet maniold, so probably only around 2K or so which seems a small investment to get a chance to test out the dynamics of the car before I start throwing money on a turbo and custom manifold etc), and then once I know the car fundamentally works, I can just whip the engine out and do all the turbo conversion bits to it, and if I think it doesnt work well enough, I'll put it in a mini instead and put a williams engine back in the clio and accept its just slow, lol
These pictures havent really worked, but basically this is it offered up to the subframe, at this stage the orientation of them isnt in its final position, effectively the frame needs to tip back a little, which will bring the front end of it up as the driveshaft to the subframe height is already in the correct position, so I need to rotate it about that point which means the front will come up slightly so I think my initial thoughts about the sump and the subframe clashing are going to be correct, but by a lot less than I had thought, and more importantly, not on the track control arm mounting points like I had feared, so hopefully I can just remake the subframe where there is an issue and leave the engine alone.
The inlet manifold is going to foul on the bulkhead as thats right back as far as the back of the frame but at the height it sits there isnt clearance in the bay at that point, but thats not an issue as I am planning on replacing that anyway with an eidelbrook one anyway which has much shorter runners so the plenum will sit further forward and hopefully wont need any metal taking out of the car at all, or at least a lot less than the standard intake would require.
This one is showing the width of the engine relative to the subframe, I took a look at where the centre line sits on Jason's integra type R which was over at our workshop too and I've based the positioning on that so its in roughly the same position, if anything Ive nudge it very slightly to the drivers side, but only by literally half an inch.
The bottom pulley actually has 3 belt sections on it, alternator is the furthest one in (lucky for me!) and then its the aircon and then power steering, I wont be using the aircon or power steering pumps though so the outer two belts can go, which means that the widest part of the engine will only sit about an inch to the right of the centreline of the subframe mounting points front and rear, and when I went and looked in the engine bay of the clio there is nothing in the way at all there which will need removing, so engine wise it looks ok for fitting.
With regards to the box, it looks like its going to clear the subframe just fine, but where it goes under the chassis rail i think I'll need to chop that rail out and remake it slightly further up, but that looks relatively straightforward to do.
Apologies for the crap light on the pictures, normally the light in the workshop is awesome but we've just taken all 64 foot of flourescant tube down to put different roof inslutation material up (was just reclaimed polystyrene before but we got a good deal on some thick loft insulation, buy one get 3 free! so are redoing it with that) and so its just got a lead light pointing at it at the moment.
28-10-2011, 06:25 PM
#129
Thanks
Would never have ended up an expensive colour to paint like that if I hadnt inherited it TBH, im only really interested on spending on the mechanical side, but its quite cool that it does look good even though my reason for buying it was just that it was such a solid shell.
Would never have ended up an expensive colour to paint like that if I hadnt inherited it TBH, im only really interested on spending on the mechanical side, but its quite cool that it does look good even though my reason for buying it was just that it was such a solid shell.
28-10-2011, 06:42 PM
#132
The little buldge on the standard bonnet doesnt look much, but it actually gives about an inch of extra clearance.
Crap picture but you can just about see what I mean hopefully:
28-10-2011, 07:02 PM
#135
Here is a pic of my old integra engine bay showing what I mean:
What that pic doesnt get across though is how far forward in the clio the engine will sit as the teg has a MUCH longer bonnet.
Last edited by Chip; 28-10-2011 at 07:03 PM.
28-10-2011, 07:08 PM
#137
This is what I mean about how far forward it sits.
Look at the location of the strut tops in this picture of my teg relative to the engine:
And now look at this picture of my other clio:
The honda engine cam cover is going to sit almost as far forward as the pulsar plenum does on my other clio, so right in the point that the bonnet comes downwards.
I may be able to lay the engine back very slightly to gain a little space, but the problem in doing so is that it will lift upwards as well as backwards as it will have to rotate about the centre of the diff outputs as the shafts have to be in the correct position.
Look at the location of the strut tops in this picture of my teg relative to the engine:
And now look at this picture of my other clio:
The honda engine cam cover is going to sit almost as far forward as the pulsar plenum does on my other clio, so right in the point that the bonnet comes downwards.
I may be able to lay the engine back very slightly to gain a little space, but the problem in doing so is that it will lift upwards as well as backwards as it will have to rotate about the centre of the diff outputs as the shafts have to be in the correct position.
28-10-2011, 08:21 PM
#141
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
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surely it can't be that much bigger than the williams lump ??. if the enginge doesn't fit in couldn't you make the williams bulge span the rest of the bonnet ??
28-10-2011, 08:47 PM
#142
I think that at worst I'll just need to get a new bonnet made that has the raised section full width instead of just on the drivers side.
The little buldge on the standard bonnet doesnt look much, but it actually gives about an inch of extra clearance.
The little buldge on the standard bonnet doesnt look much, but it actually gives about an inch of extra clearance.
Its not that its bigger than the williams overall, but it is sat at a different angle and if I start laying it over massively like the williams one then I may get oil circulation problems as a result, it can be a dodgy thing to do to start laying engines over, plus it would then give me a problem that as it lays back it would lift up, as like I said a few posts up I cant move the diff location as the driveshafts have to be in the correct place so any movement I do would have to be a rotation around the driveshaft centreline only.
30-10-2011, 10:55 PM
#143
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flat as a whitches tit untill 3000rpm then gets better, hit 5000 and the SR20 wakes up with a bang all the way to 7500!l
jap and track defanitly go hand in hand, gearbox ratios are amazing on these jdm cars, a ford oversight on most IMO
loving the clio, always fancied a mk1 williams with accord R power then i saw this....... BOOOOOOOOOOOOO lol
bang on for origionality fella, top marks from me
31-10-2011, 09:48 AM
#144
Primera GT's are funny cars, SO much better than people expect from looking at then.
Only problem with being original is I have no one to copy, so I dont actually know for certain if it will even be possible to get it to fit and the car still handle, but fingers crossed as it looks ok so far.
Got some time off end of december, so hopefully make some progress then.
Only problem with being original is I have no one to copy, so I dont actually know for certain if it will even be possible to get it to fit and the car still handle, but fingers crossed as it looks ok so far.
Got some time off end of december, so hopefully make some progress then.
31-10-2011, 11:21 PM
#145
been measuring mine up and think im going to need a buldge in the escort bonnet to clear the front of the cam cover, but on the flip the inlet will fit just fine.
my shitter is the steep and of the inner wings on a mk4 escort and the shape of the original mounts ( i drilled the mounts of the civic)
the gear box one looks like it will perch on the chassis rail lovely, think i need to get another gearbox mount cut of a civic for the engine side to.
that or mill up some thing from ally.
my shitter is the steep and of the inner wings on a mk4 escort and the shape of the original mounts ( i drilled the mounts of the civic)
the gear box one looks like it will perch on the chassis rail lovely, think i need to get another gearbox mount cut of a civic for the engine side to.
that or mill up some thing from ally.
01-11-2011, 09:26 AM
#146
my shitter is the steep and of the inner wings on a mk4 escort and the shape of the original mounts ( i drilled the mounts of the civic)
the gear box one looks like it will perch on the chassis rail lovely, think i need to get another gearbox mount cut of a civic for the engine side to.
that or mill up some thing from ally.
the gear box one looks like it will perch on the chassis rail lovely, think i need to get another gearbox mount cut of a civic for the engine side to.
that or mill up some thing from ally.
Ironically on mine the engine looks like fitting pretty easy, its the gearbox that is going to require me to get the grinder out and remove some serious metal from the clio shell!
05-12-2011, 09:59 AM
#147
Well I totally forgot to get any pictures, so I definately fail at update threads, but this weekend I went and fetched the front end of a mk1 clio to use for mocking up.
what we have done is cut the front in half so I have a passenger side front quarter and a drivers side front quarter, just to make it nice and easy to lift about and use for mocking up, going to be after xmas before I get a chance to do anything now, but at least i'm aquiring the bits.
also have some 550cc injectors now, and my new inlet has arrived.
will do an update in the new year that hopefully will start to look a bit like an engine in a clio at last!
what we have done is cut the front in half so I have a passenger side front quarter and a drivers side front quarter, just to make it nice and easy to lift about and use for mocking up, going to be after xmas before I get a chance to do anything now, but at least i'm aquiring the bits.
also have some 550cc injectors now, and my new inlet has arrived.
will do an update in the new year that hopefully will start to look a bit like an engine in a clio at last!
Last edited by Chip; 05-12-2011 at 10:05 AM.
05-12-2011, 11:10 AM
#148
Dave not Claire.
Nice project Chip. I did the volvo 1.7t conversion in our old rsi a good few years back. Only a quick swap over. Nothing special but went ok for a daily driver.
Only issue we had was cooking the brake fluid due to turbo location.
Your not going to have that issue tho.
Keep up the good work fella
Only issue we had was cooking the brake fluid due to turbo location.
Your not going to have that issue tho.
Keep up the good work fella
05-12-2011, 12:15 PM
#149
Yeah we were worried about brake fluid on the MWM turbo clio when we were mapping it as its so close to the lines, but they have added extra insulation and it seems ok so car, even on track.
Like you say though, no such worries with where my turbo will be, lol
Like you say though, no such worries with where my turbo will be, lol
05-12-2011, 01:22 PM
#150
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Good choice on engine!! shame i didnt read this sooner just broke an MB6 and done a guy motor, box, loom, mounts, shafts ECU etc... for Ł550
So easy to get reliable turbo power from! Long legged LSD box in em too! cracking choice mate
So easy to get reliable turbo power from! Long legged LSD box in em too! cracking choice mate
05-12-2011, 01:24 PM
#151
I'd have certainly been tempted on that as a spare at that money, but TBH I am really happy that the engine and box I have is as good as im going to find, having driven it some 10K miles now without a problem in the donor, we even used it as a tow car for my nova for a while 
05-12-2011, 01:27 PM
#152
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There such an under-rated car! just have to nose on youtube at the power the yanks are getting out of B18's its seriously mental!
what cams are you going to be using??
what cams are you going to be using??
05-12-2011, 01:46 PM
#153
Yes, they are a very much unknown quantity, TBH I hadnt even heard of the Civic Vti with its LSD etc myself until Ricky Lee put me onto them, only B18 I knew of with an LSD before that was the ITR I used to have.
The Standard b18c4 cams im going to use mate, cant think of any good reason to change them for 300bhp or so on a turbo motor TBH
The Standard b18c4 cams im going to use mate, cant think of any good reason to change them for 300bhp or so on a turbo motor TBH
31-12-2011, 09:00 PM
#156
Well I got the engine into the mocking up spare engine bay today, no mounts made or anything yet, just cutting out room for clearance etc and working on alignment
Forgot to get pics as usual so will get some tomorrow or next weekend, whenever im near it next.
Good news:
Gearbox clears the steering rack, JUST! That would have been a potential project stopper if the box was an inch deeper backwards
Standard exhaust manifold fits, and exhaust will go through the hump on the subframe the old rear mount fitted under, handy if I want to run N/A for a while
Looks like the gear linkage is going to clear too
Rear mount is going to be easy to make fit
Bad news:
Both the chassis legs I had to completely cut out for clearance so will have to be remanufactured as one is where the box needs to be and one is where the aux belt needs to be
Not much room for a turbo at front, so might have to go over gearbox, and if I do that theres no room round the back of the box for the downpipe
Other observations:
Front two mounts are going to be a bit of a pain in the arse to make just because of where on the frame they'll need to locate but are definately doable
Can probably add a mount from engine to shell on pass side rather than just subframe mounts
Should be able to make an engine steady on the pass side
Can probably add a mount from box to shell on drivers side, although its going to be very tall if I do so, so ok for weight bearing but wont stop engine movement
Inner cv's are slightly higher than on the williams engine box but it looks accceptable for shaft angles as the car will be lowered anyway
Clearance between sump and subframe is very minimal, will need to be cautious about that when the engine moves in use
Not yet been able to check:
Not sure if bonnet will fit over cam cover yet as didnt have one handy to try
Not sure if my aftermarket inlet manifold will fit, standard one nowhere near fits though.
Forgot to get pics as usual so will get some tomorrow or next weekend, whenever im near it next.
Good news:
Gearbox clears the steering rack, JUST! That would have been a potential project stopper if the box was an inch deeper backwards
Standard exhaust manifold fits, and exhaust will go through the hump on the subframe the old rear mount fitted under, handy if I want to run N/A for a while
Looks like the gear linkage is going to clear too
Rear mount is going to be easy to make fit
Bad news:
Both the chassis legs I had to completely cut out for clearance so will have to be remanufactured as one is where the box needs to be and one is where the aux belt needs to be
Not much room for a turbo at front, so might have to go over gearbox, and if I do that theres no room round the back of the box for the downpipe
Other observations:
Front two mounts are going to be a bit of a pain in the arse to make just because of where on the frame they'll need to locate but are definately doable
Can probably add a mount from engine to shell on pass side rather than just subframe mounts
Should be able to make an engine steady on the pass side
Can probably add a mount from box to shell on drivers side, although its going to be very tall if I do so, so ok for weight bearing but wont stop engine movement
Inner cv's are slightly higher than on the williams engine box but it looks accceptable for shaft angles as the car will be lowered anyway
Clearance between sump and subframe is very minimal, will need to be cautious about that when the engine moves in use
Not yet been able to check:
Not sure if bonnet will fit over cam cover yet as didnt have one handy to try
Not sure if my aftermarket inlet manifold will fit, standard one nowhere near fits though.
07-01-2012, 04:30 PM
#157
Got a couple of quick pictures from the spare front end im using for mocking up with so I dont end up cutting up the yellow shell too much, this way I can try things out and then once I know what I am doing just copy only the changes needed onto the yellow one.
Overall shot of the engine sat in what I think is going to be the final position in the bay:
Clearance on the passenger/engine side:
Clearace on the driver/gearbox side:
Overall shot of the engine sat in what I think is going to be the final position in the bay:
Clearance on the passenger/engine side:
Clearace on the driver/gearbox side:
