My new trackday Clio Mk1 : aka the Cli-Y0 (bought donor car pg 3)
02-11-2010, 11:27 AM
#1
My new trackday Clio Mk1 : aka the Cli-Y0 (bought donor car pg 3)
Well Ive been having so much fun with the clio that I got a couple of years ago as a really cheap trackday hack (although i did end up spending a bit on it in the end with the williams lump and bodies etc but still only a few grand) that I have decided I am going to do a better one to replace it with.
I have just arranged to buy this shell:
Ive also bought the cage, coilovers and carbon bonnet (going to be the thing I hate about it as I cant stand carbon weave showing bonnets but CBA to spend the money on painting it when no doubt I'll struggle to get a good paint match, plus everyone else seems to like the look anyway so maybe it'll grow on me!), so other than needing some decent brakes, its got the basis for being a cracking little track car really.
Ive already got a pair of cheap but acceptable buckets for it, and its already wide tracked so thats one less job to do.
Not entirely sure what spec its going to be yet engine wise, I really want something with boost this time as the throttle bodies one was just so slow on the straights, but on the other hand TBH the straights are only there to get you from corner to corner which is where I enjoyed the car most anyway.
So I want to get a bit more power but I dont want that to be the focus of the car, i still want it to handle properly, its a trackday car I want not a one trick pony drag car or anything like that, I dont care what quarter it does but I do care if I can do 80mph round camp corner at combe.
Im just weighing up the options at the moment, I'll be using aftermarket management whatever engine I go for, so not bothered about that side of the conversion and obviously i'll be mapping it myself so no real costs ascociated with that other than a bit of fuel.
Current things im considering are:
Williams N/A:
Just fit my Williams engine and accept it being slow on the straights, could possibly get some cams to get the power up a touch
No real downside other than being so bloody slow!
Williams Turbo:
Low pressure turbo on my williams engine on standard internals
Gearbox life is likely to be shortened a bit but if I keep the boost very low until up in the rev range so it doesnt make much torque it will hopefully be ok.
No readily available cheap diffs for this box though, so likely to spin the power away on tight corners a bit
Forged internals on my williams engine and a decent turbo for high pressure
The problem with that, is the gearboxes are fucking shite that fit these engines, so if I do turbo it, I risk ruining half the trackdays I do because Ive just blown the box up and thats really not something I want to be happening. I want to be able to do like I do at the moment and just beat the cars face in all day and have nothing other than the odd minor glitch that can be fixed trackside etc. also the issue of diffs being expensive, which is a real problem if you are likely to be breaking the gearbox reguarly and possibly taking the diff with it!
Megane turbo lump:
The megane 225 lump will see 250bhp+ very easily, which TBH is probably plenty in this sort of car, the gearboxes are strong and in the F1 R26R they came with a LSD as well, so there is the option for an upgrade on the box later on.
Relatively easy to fit, not to expensive, will upset the handling a little as its a bit heavier although thankfully the extra weight is in the box (so low down and on passenger side) and at the back of the engine where the turbo is (so behind the axle line), dont think there is a standard fitment driveshaft I can use, so probably into needing shafts made. From what I gather it will more or less go straight in on various readily avaiable renault mounts
Vauxhall turbo lump:
Got enough bits to build a 350bhp one very easily, i know them inside out and back to front, Ive got loads of spares, dead easy to put a decent box on it, diffs are readily available, although its a relatively large conversion its all stuff im so familiar with that I could pretty much do this one in my sleep, although would need custom driveshafts etc making, but thats only a one off cost, and things like moutns im sure I can knock up myself easily enough
downsides are its going to be a tight fit with a lot of extra weight right at the front of the car, so potentially could have a really adverse effect on the handling
Audi turbo lump:
Dont know a huge amount about these, have mapped a couple but thats about it, they seem to be popular in FWD cars though and from what I gather the boxes are strong and as a package its not too heavy
Downside is i have no parts lieing around and no detailed knowledge about whats going to be involved, so with the very limited amount of time I have available (few hours a week at most realistically due to other commitments) im a little concerned this one could turn into taking years and years and I dont really want yet another long term project.
I have just arranged to buy this shell:
Ive also bought the cage, coilovers and carbon bonnet (going to be the thing I hate about it as I cant stand carbon weave showing bonnets but CBA to spend the money on painting it when no doubt I'll struggle to get a good paint match, plus everyone else seems to like the look anyway so maybe it'll grow on me!), so other than needing some decent brakes, its got the basis for being a cracking little track car really.
Ive already got a pair of cheap but acceptable buckets for it, and its already wide tracked so thats one less job to do.
Not entirely sure what spec its going to be yet engine wise, I really want something with boost this time as the throttle bodies one was just so slow on the straights, but on the other hand TBH the straights are only there to get you from corner to corner which is where I enjoyed the car most anyway.
So I want to get a bit more power but I dont want that to be the focus of the car, i still want it to handle properly, its a trackday car I want not a one trick pony drag car or anything like that, I dont care what quarter it does but I do care if I can do 80mph round camp corner at combe.
Im just weighing up the options at the moment, I'll be using aftermarket management whatever engine I go for, so not bothered about that side of the conversion and obviously i'll be mapping it myself so no real costs ascociated with that other than a bit of fuel.
Current things im considering are:
Williams N/A:
Just fit my Williams engine and accept it being slow on the straights, could possibly get some cams to get the power up a touch
No real downside other than being so bloody slow!
Williams Turbo:
Low pressure turbo on my williams engine on standard internals
Gearbox life is likely to be shortened a bit but if I keep the boost very low until up in the rev range so it doesnt make much torque it will hopefully be ok.
No readily available cheap diffs for this box though, so likely to spin the power away on tight corners a bit
Forged internals on my williams engine and a decent turbo for high pressure
The problem with that, is the gearboxes are fucking shite that fit these engines, so if I do turbo it, I risk ruining half the trackdays I do because Ive just blown the box up and thats really not something I want to be happening. I want to be able to do like I do at the moment and just beat the cars face in all day and have nothing other than the odd minor glitch that can be fixed trackside etc. also the issue of diffs being expensive, which is a real problem if you are likely to be breaking the gearbox reguarly and possibly taking the diff with it!
Megane turbo lump:
The megane 225 lump will see 250bhp+ very easily, which TBH is probably plenty in this sort of car, the gearboxes are strong and in the F1 R26R they came with a LSD as well, so there is the option for an upgrade on the box later on.
Relatively easy to fit, not to expensive, will upset the handling a little as its a bit heavier although thankfully the extra weight is in the box (so low down and on passenger side) and at the back of the engine where the turbo is (so behind the axle line), dont think there is a standard fitment driveshaft I can use, so probably into needing shafts made. From what I gather it will more or less go straight in on various readily avaiable renault mounts
Vauxhall turbo lump:
Got enough bits to build a 350bhp one very easily, i know them inside out and back to front, Ive got loads of spares, dead easy to put a decent box on it, diffs are readily available, although its a relatively large conversion its all stuff im so familiar with that I could pretty much do this one in my sleep, although would need custom driveshafts etc making, but thats only a one off cost, and things like moutns im sure I can knock up myself easily enough
downsides are its going to be a tight fit with a lot of extra weight right at the front of the car, so potentially could have a really adverse effect on the handling
Audi turbo lump:
Dont know a huge amount about these, have mapped a couple but thats about it, they seem to be popular in FWD cars though and from what I gather the boxes are strong and as a package its not too heavy
Downside is i have no parts lieing around and no detailed knowledge about whats going to be involved, so with the very limited amount of time I have available (few hours a week at most realistically due to other commitments) im a little concerned this one could turn into taking years and years and I dont really want yet another long term project.
Last edited by Chip; 02-02-2011 at 10:26 PM.
02-11-2010, 11:58 AM
#3
Yeah the megane lump does seem a good compromise, more power than a low pressure turbo on my williams lump and less weight in the wrong place than a vauxhall lump.
I suspect the audi lump is the best overall, but as I mentioned I think it will just end up taking me too long when I can only spend at most a few hours a week on it.
I suspect the audi lump is the best overall, but as I mentioned I think it will just end up taking me too long when I can only spend at most a few hours a week on it.
02-11-2010, 12:08 PM
#4
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I think you're right about the Audi lump, but seeing as a reliable 250bhp (give or take) is all you desire the true potential of the engines is less relevant, and its nice (in my eyes) to see the same badge under the bonnet as to that on the grille.
Tom
Tom
02-11-2010, 12:14 PM
#6
Yeah I do think there is something cool about keeping it in the family in that regard, My nova I considered a YB for a while but went Saab for several reasons but one of them was that its all from the same family at the time (as GM owned saab back then)
Its also been done before with the renault engine, so I know that it will physically fit in the bay.
This actual car had a renault turbo in it apreviously although they did it differently and built a megane lump into the williams block and used the williams gearbox and shafts etc, which I dont really want to do cause of the box.
good thing is that its still got the pedal box in it that solves the clearance issues around the turbo on the megane lump as well, so i'd only need to use a remote cable operated master cylinder for the clutch and it would go in relatively easily in terms of the pedals.
Its also been done before with the renault engine, so I know that it will physically fit in the bay.
This actual car had a renault turbo in it apreviously although they did it differently and built a megane lump into the williams block and used the williams gearbox and shafts etc, which I dont really want to do cause of the box.
good thing is that its still got the pedal box in it that solves the clearance issues around the turbo on the megane lump as well, so i'd only need to use a remote cable operated master cylinder for the clutch and it would go in relatively easily in terms of the pedals.
02-11-2010, 01:17 PM
#7
nice little project you have there fella n i must say i love the colour!!!! really works well, as for engine choice surly its gotta be worth fitting the megane lump for al the pros listed above n in the long tearm resale if you ever come to move the car on!!!
jay
jay
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02-11-2010, 02:18 PM
#8
Yeah thats a good point about resale on the megane lump, although I suspect even at that stage it would still be worth more to break than to sell anyway TBH
These sort of cars invariabley are, otherwise it wouldnt have just been broken and seperated from a megane lump in the first place for me to buy it, lol
These sort of cars invariabley are, otherwise it wouldnt have just been broken and seperated from a megane lump in the first place for me to buy it, lol
02-11-2010, 02:45 PM
#9
Yeah thats a good point about resale on the megane lump, although I suspect even at that stage it would still be worth more to break than to sell anyway TBH
These sort of cars invariabley are, otherwise it wouldnt have just been broken and seperated from a megane lump in the first place for me to buy it, lol
These sort of cars invariabley are, otherwise it wouldnt have just been broken and seperated from a megane lump in the first place for me to buy it, lol
ether way fella best of luck will be interesting to see the outcome,
02-11-2010, 05:27 PM
#10
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Audi turbo lump:
Dont know a huge amount about these, have mapped a couple but thats about it, they seem to be popular in FWD cars though and from what I gather the boxes are strong and as a package its not too heavy
Downside is i have no parts lieing around and no detailed knowledge about whats going to be involved, so with the very limited amount of time I have available (few hours a week at most realistically due to other commitments) im a little concerned this one could turn into taking years and years and I dont really want yet another long term project.
Dont know a huge amount about these, have mapped a couple but thats about it, they seem to be popular in FWD cars though and from what I gather the boxes are strong and as a package its not too heavy
Downside is i have no parts lieing around and no detailed knowledge about whats going to be involved, so with the very limited amount of time I have available (few hours a week at most realistically due to other commitments) im a little concerned this one could turn into taking years and years and I dont really want yet another long term project.
I got a VW Passat 1.8t lump sat here with a hole in the sump. . . its out the car complete with inlet manifold, turbo etc if you wanna make me a offer via PM. . .
Bought a full car for the gearbox and never had it running, but if your gonna rebuild a lump may aswell rebuild one that needs work
02-11-2010, 05:34 PM
#11
Crewe is a bit far to go to fetch a fucked engine TBH mate but thanks for the offer.
Ideally if im going to transplant an engine I dont want to rebuild it, I just want to buy a decent one and fit it, like I said Im trying to avoid it becoming too much of a project as this is replacing a car I do about a dozen trackdays a year so I want it up and running sooner rather than later.
And TBH if I am rebuilding an engine I like to start with the best example I can, less likely to have major problems that way like heat damage to the block etc
Ideally if im going to transplant an engine I dont want to rebuild it, I just want to buy a decent one and fit it, like I said Im trying to avoid it becoming too much of a project as this is replacing a car I do about a dozen trackdays a year so I want it up and running sooner rather than later.
And TBH if I am rebuilding an engine I like to start with the best example I can, less likely to have major problems that way like heat damage to the block etc
Last edited by Chip; 02-11-2010 at 05:39 PM.
02-11-2010, 08:02 PM
#13
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cool project chipster. id go with the megane 225 lump aswel, keeping it renault would be cool. i know a lad witha megane 225, and there quick cars, so the motor in a clio shell, even with standard (ish) power, it wont half go well.
02-11-2010, 10:42 PM
#17
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if you concerned about a gearbox just bolt up a r5 turbo box to it, will take 250-300bhp and 250ft all day long, yes the ratios are slightly longer but you will have fair bit of power and they are pennies to replace.
on the diff front, i made my own lsd for my r5 box, i can show you some pics of how its done, you could probably copy it with a couple of hours on a milling machine
on the diff front, i made my own lsd for my r5 box, i can show you some pics of how its done, you could probably copy it with a couple of hours on a milling machine
02-11-2010, 11:42 PM
#18
Renault 5 boxes dont take that sort of power on a trackday for long IME, dont think they are any stronger than the williams box TBH
Dont want N/A for big power as it means spending out loads of money on solid lifters etc just to see relatively small gains, turbo makes far more sense if Im going to get more power out of it.
Adding 50% more power (roughly what Id like to do) by N/A tuning is going to be massively expensive, like 5k+, and then i'll be on short pistons that dont last many miles etc too, its just not a good way of getting reasonable power from an engine
Dont want N/A for big power as it means spending out loads of money on solid lifters etc just to see relatively small gains, turbo makes far more sense if Im going to get more power out of it.
Adding 50% more power (roughly what Id like to do) by N/A tuning is going to be massively expensive, like 5k+, and then i'll be on short pistons that dont last many miles etc too, its just not a good way of getting reasonable power from an engine
03-11-2010, 06:01 PM
#20
If you could find out it would be much appreciated mate.
I was saying on the clio forum earlier today that I am sure that with the right combination of standard renault cv's and shafts im confident there will be a cheap and easy way of doing it.
(like we do with calibra engine and box + 1600 cav mk2 inner cvs + nova shafts for example when fitting a 2 litre in a nova and avoiding the cost of custom shafts)
I was saying on the clio forum earlier today that I am sure that with the right combination of standard renault cv's and shafts im confident there will be a cheap and easy way of doing it.
(like we do with calibra engine and box + 1600 cav mk2 inner cvs + nova shafts for example when fitting a 2 litre in a nova and avoiding the cost of custom shafts)
04-11-2010, 11:03 AM
#23
Will certainly bare that one in mind mate 
If you could find out how he did it though, that would be even better if it is just a mismatch of the right standard parts from different cars.
If you could find out how he did it though, that would be even better if it is just a mismatch of the right standard parts from different cars.
Last edited by Chip; 04-11-2010 at 11:05 AM.
04-11-2010, 12:17 PM
#25
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Although this isn't a for sale advert how much for the williams engine with bodies and ecu Chip
That fricking volvo of my mates is doing my head in and the Honda one is a long project !
If you feel like selling he could well be interested if the price is right, PM me
That fricking volvo of my mates is doing my head in and the Honda one is a long project !
If you feel like selling he could well be interested if the price is right, PM me
04-11-2010, 12:24 PM
#26
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Chip, stick your Williams engine in it... use the money you have saved to prep it as a club racer.
and come and do few races in this series with me next year.
Its proper low budget pikey motorsport but everyone seemed to be really enjoying themselves at the meet I went to watch. Cllio will do just fine!
You can share driving with a mate as a pit stop is mandatory, or drive whole thing yourself.
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/tintops.htm
and come and do few races in this series with me next year.
Its proper low budget pikey motorsport but everyone seemed to be really enjoying themselves at the meet I went to watch. Cllio will do just fine!
You can share driving with a mate as a pit stop is mandatory, or drive whole thing yourself.
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/tintops.htm
Last edited by Porkie; 04-11-2010 at 12:25 PM.
04-11-2010, 12:31 PM
#28
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Chip, stick your Williams engine in it... use the money you have saved to prep it as a club racer.
and come and do few races in this series with me next year.
Its proper low budget pikey motorsport but everyone seemed to be really enjoying themselves at the meet I went to watch. Cllio will do just fine!
You can share driving with a mate as a pit stop is mandatory, or drive whole thing yourself.
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/tintops.htm
and come and do few races in this series with me next year.
Its proper low budget pikey motorsport but everyone seemed to be really enjoying themselves at the meet I went to watch. Cllio will do just fine!
You can share driving with a mate as a pit stop is mandatory, or drive whole thing yourself.
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/tintops.htm
What are the fees like Lee ?
04-11-2010, 01:00 PM
#31
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It was proper budget stuff! but the guys were really respectful of each others cars and any crap or aggressive drivers get kicked out.
They are doing an open test day and free kinda scrutineering at Snetterton in March. Will be taking down the Westy and the Clio and hope to race them both next year.
Its really really bottom of grass roots club racing.... I only went down to watch a mate race his 928 in the future classics race.
Its so low budget.... HE DROVE IT THERE AND BACK!
but it just seemed like fun day out and he was on such a high after the race, I thought why the hell am I not doing this as I have 2 cars that are elligible!
went to mooch around the Magnificent 7's series cars and spotted an old mate who you will all know!
Rocket Ronnie! now races a Caterham...
04-11-2010, 01:03 PM
#33
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It was proper budget stuff! but the guys were really respectful of each others cars and any crap or aggressive drivers get kicked out.
They are doing an open test day and free kinda scrutineering at Snetterton in March. Will be taking down the Westy and the Clio and hope to race them both next year.
Its really really bottom of grass roots club racing.... I only went down to watch a mate race his 928 in the future classics race.
Its so low budget.... HE DROVE IT THERE AND BACK!
but it just seemed like fun day out and he was on such a high after the race, I thought why the hell am I not doing this as I have 2 cars that are elligible!
went to mooch around the Magnificent 7's series cars and spotted an old mate who you will all know!
Rocket Ronnie! now races a Caterham...
They are doing an open test day and free kinda scrutineering at Snetterton in March. Will be taking down the Westy and the Clio and hope to race them both next year.
Its really really bottom of grass roots club racing.... I only went down to watch a mate race his 928 in the future classics race.
Its so low budget.... HE DROVE IT THERE AND BACK!
but it just seemed like fun day out and he was on such a high after the race, I thought why the hell am I not doing this as I have 2 cars that are elligible!
went to mooch around the Magnificent 7's series cars and spotted an old mate who you will all know!
Rocket Ronnie! now races a Caterham...
What class is the Westy eligible for ? I'd be really interested to see how it fairs against the big power NA cars
04-11-2010, 01:05 PM
#34
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04-11-2010, 01:20 PM
#36
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Hmmm.
Sadly I am struggling enough at the minute without getting involved in anything else car related.
I'd like to see my own car done then I'm going to sprint that anyway but I do like the idea of racing against others and not just the clock, just got too much to lose using my own car.
Chips not a NA man anyway as you know, its all about uncontrollable wheelspin for him
Sorry to go off topic.
Sadly I am struggling enough at the minute without getting involved in anything else car related.
I'd like to see my own car done then I'm going to sprint that anyway but I do like the idea of racing against others and not just the clock, just got too much to lose using my own car.
Chips not a NA man anyway as you know, its all about uncontrollable wheelspin for him
Sorry to go off topic.
04-11-2010, 01:29 PM
#37
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I was speaking to the guy that runs the club....
I was like... so are any engines allowed? Turbos?
he was like yes yes.... some of the fastest cars are running 240bhp he said!!!
I was like er... I have 480bhp
he said, wow 280bhp!
I said no... 480bhp
I dont think he believes me
he said no worries, bring it down to the open/test day
To be honest though, my car is VERY VERY heavy compared to a proper Caterham CSR racer and they are all soooooooooo well developed and set up that I will get murdered.
But just be nice to get out there and have some fun! The straight at Snetterton will be funny though against some of the 100bhp cars!
04-11-2010, 01:49 PM
#38
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mad huh!!!
I was speaking to the guy that runs the club....
I was like... so are any engines allowed? Turbos?
he was like yes yes.... some of the fastest cars are running 240bhp he said!!!
I was like er... I have 480bhp
he said, wow 280bhp!
I said no... 480bhp
I dont think he believes me
he said no worries, bring it down to the open/test day
To be honest though, my car is VERY VERY heavy compared to a proper Caterham CSR racer and they are all soooooooooo well developed and set up that I will get murdered.
But just be nice to get out there and have some fun! The straight at Snetterton will be funny though against some of the 100bhp cars!
I was speaking to the guy that runs the club....
I was like... so are any engines allowed? Turbos?
he was like yes yes.... some of the fastest cars are running 240bhp he said!!!
I was like er... I have 480bhp
he said, wow 280bhp!
I said no... 480bhp
I dont think he believes me
he said no worries, bring it down to the open/test day
To be honest though, my car is VERY VERY heavy compared to a proper Caterham CSR racer and they are all soooooooooo well developed and set up that I will get murdered.
But just be nice to get out there and have some fun! The straight at Snetterton will be funny though against some of the 100bhp cars!
Just remember you do need to make the left/right at the end of that straight
I'd definitely like to see that, the proper Caterhams are insane though but you have got just a little more power than they have and you are quite a commited driver so would make for some good viewing.
04-11-2010, 02:12 PM
#39
The main use my car gets is at castle combe as its the only track that I can do in a day and feel like it was a relaxing day out, snetterton would actually mean I would need to take a day off work for the 3 days that it would take me! Trailer there for 7 hours, race the car the next day, then trailer back the 7 hours the day after, sure i could make that 2 days at a push, but it wouldnt feel like fun it would feel like a chore.
I'd love to do a race series at some point but if I do it will be one based at combe.
Ive nothing against N/A cars, Ive certainly had more N/A trackday cars over the years than most people on here have probably(ive got the clio and the corsa still now dont forget as well) but these days I dont see the point when its so expensive compared to using a turbo for the same power.
I'll only make my clio 250-275bhp probably with a turbo lump, which of course could be done N/A but it couldnt be done reliably for 2 grand like it can on a turbo, itwould be more like 10 grand and forever needing a new set of slipper pistons thrown at it and yet another rebuild!
If I do a race series that involves visting far away tracks, I'll just buy an already competitive mighty mini racer off someone getting out of the sport and do it that way.
I'd love to do a race series at some point but if I do it will be one based at combe.
Ive nothing against N/A cars, Ive certainly had more N/A trackday cars over the years than most people on here have probably(ive got the clio and the corsa still now dont forget as well) but these days I dont see the point when its so expensive compared to using a turbo for the same power.
I'll only make my clio 250-275bhp probably with a turbo lump, which of course could be done N/A but it couldnt be done reliably for 2 grand like it can on a turbo, itwould be more like 10 grand and forever needing a new set of slipper pistons thrown at it and yet another rebuild!
If I do a race series that involves visting far away tracks, I'll just buy an already competitive mighty mini racer off someone getting out of the sport and do it that way.
Last edited by Chip; 04-11-2010 at 02:17 PM.
22-11-2010, 01:33 PM
#40
audi engine looks fairly realistic here:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showt...Project-Thread
Although that guy has been at it well over a year already and not finished yet by the looks of it, but certainly it looks like the engine sits in the bay reasonabley well at least.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showt...Project-Thread
Although that guy has been at it well over a year already and not finished yet by the looks of it, but certainly it looks like the engine sits in the bay reasonabley well at least.