Arb Vs Compression Struts
15-10-2008, 10:17 AM
#1
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Arb Vs Compression Struts
Which of these would be best suited for rd car which does a few track days a yr.
15-10-2008, 10:50 AM
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You need the ARB.
In fact I am shocked that there are still no aftermarket ARBs for Cossies. It's one of the cheapest and bestmods you can do on other cars.
In fact I am shocked that there are still no aftermarket ARBs for Cossies. It's one of the cheapest and bestmods you can do on other cars.
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15-10-2008, 11:14 AM
#11
Because to compensate for the removal of the ARB to control the body roll, you need springs of vastly harder poundage than with the ARB, so the ride quality goes to rat-shit.
Azrael,
If you look at Martin's resto thread, he has this set up on his own car (page 12ish from memory)
. Its a SUPPLEMENTARY cross member, so everything else remains the same .
Azrael,
If you look at Martin's resto thread, he has this set up on his own car (page 12ish from memory)
. Its a SUPPLEMENTARY cross member, so everything else remains the same .
15-10-2008, 11:19 AM
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As discussed here:
https://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/169075-anti-roll-bar-vs-compression-struts.html
With pictures etc
https://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/169075-anti-roll-bar-vs-compression-struts.html
With pictures etc
15-10-2008, 11:21 AM
#13
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the Grp A crossmember sits ahead of the standard crossmember.
this inturn houses the ARB, and has drop links to the TCA's.
so you can then run compression struts in place of the standard ARB.
this inturn houses the ARB, and has drop links to the TCA's.
so you can then run compression struts in place of the standard ARB.
15-10-2008, 11:42 AM
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Suhe Motorsport does a kit with both. But no adjustable TCAs then...
http://www.ccundc.com/os/product_inf...fbc7d4fc4ac076
Just dont look at the nasty Escort on their first page
Its even TÜV approved
http://www.ccundc.com/os/product_inf...fbc7d4fc4ac076
Just dont look at the nasty Escort on their first page
Its even TÜV approved
15-10-2008, 01:19 PM
#17
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No idea. They look like one of the better solutions without spending a fortune on 909 parts or getting creative with the welder though.
Sent them email, hope they understand English. My German is useless...
Sent them email, hope they understand English. My German is useless...
Last edited by JHS; 15-10-2008 at 01:23 PM.
15-10-2008, 01:27 PM
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My german is somewhat better then useless, maybe I'll try and we'll see.
15-10-2008, 01:54 PM
#21
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I just got thinking, if eveyone is modding those front arms for adjustability etc, why doesn;'t anyne just make wishbone typ front arms for Cossies? It wouldn't be that complicated it's just combining 2 or 3 products into one.
15-10-2008, 05:10 PM
#22
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So if I was building a super hard sprung track car, what are the advantages of compression struts over the ARB?
Steve
15-10-2008, 06:23 PM
#26
i do think that Mike paints a picture thats so bad about not running one, its not always donw to haveing a harsh spring ratio, my last car ran no more than 380lb on the front with no arb, and was not harsh at all, im not putting one on the new car either, i may try one, but if it turns in as nice as the last, i wont be wasting my money.
15-10-2008, 10:38 PM
#27
Most only see the fear factor Mark
And your right no one has mentioned the improved grip and turn-in yet.
Its a simple bolt on bolt off set-up, so if you have a road car that does 'the occasional trackday' why not swap between the two to get the best of both worlds.
Its hardly an expensive mod in the scheme of owning a cossie track car !!
And your right no one has mentioned the improved grip and turn-in yet.
Its a simple bolt on bolt off set-up, so if you have a road car that does 'the occasional trackday' why not swap between the two to get the best of both worlds.
Its hardly an expensive mod in the scheme of owning a cossie track car !!
15-10-2008, 11:33 PM
#29
The kits sell in enough quantity as they are Kelv and no body has ever returned one and said they dont work !!
Produce a GPN set-up and people will compare it to a GPA set up and slag it off.
Produce a GPA set-up and people will compare it to a WRC set-up and slag it off
Leave it as it is, and sell them around the world to those that want to use them is the option.
Mike Little used to run the works cars without ARB's until the GPA set up was developed and that was due to progress and adjustability requirements, not because they didn't work without !!
Produce a GPN set-up and people will compare it to a GPA set up and slag it off.
Produce a GPA set-up and people will compare it to a WRC set-up and slag it off
Leave it as it is, and sell them around the world to those that want to use them is the option.
Mike Little used to run the works cars without ARB's until the GPA set up was developed and that was due to progress and adjustability requirements, not because they didn't work without !!
15-10-2008, 11:46 PM
#31
if you have suitable dampers then you do not need to run the front arb on a fast road/track car. try it then develop your own fixings if required.
money can be spent on better things than developing something you dont need. i.e decent dampers, not 500000lb springs mike seams to be pressing people into needing if they remove the arb.
money can be spent on better things than developing something you dont need. i.e decent dampers, not 500000lb springs mike seams to be pressing people into needing if they remove the arb.
16-10-2008, 12:10 AM
#33
To do that we'd be asking people to cut (if you can) and ruin a thick steel sprung bar, that you would then never be able to revert back to standard should you wish. Cutting the bar shorter would alter its tension.
As for the 16i set-up I binned that after testing as it offers no advantage for me on track, so why would it work in bigger forms ?
Fine for road use but no advantage gained on track
If it worked people like AGmotorsport / Reyland etc would have had it sussed about 10 years ago
Last edited by NUTS RuS; 16-10-2008 at 12:14 AM.
16-10-2008, 12:11 AM
#34
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heres my setup as discussed in thread in tech room
still retains anti roll bar with the comp struts ....
bolts up to the arb mounts and the arb piggybacks on top of these
pics
this way you get the best of both worlds even roll bar itself on ends is adjustable
16-10-2008, 12:17 AM
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Loving those drop links stage 3 muppet 
, I have a set of Comp-brake TCA's and Compression struts, not driven the car yet so not sure if it will need the group A bladed ARB kit I have to fit, but I need a way to attach them to the tca's, and that looks like a good idea 
.. How strong does the attchment have to be? Was thinking about clamps around the TCA's with rose joints, but I do like your method, just wondering if the bolt would be strong enough?
, I have a set of Comp-brake TCA's and Compression struts, not driven the car yet so not sure if it will need the group A bladed ARB kit I have to fit, but I need a way to attach them to the tca's, and that looks like a good idea .. How strong does the attchment have to be? Was thinking about clamps around the TCA's with rose joints, but I do like your method, just wondering if the bolt would be strong enough?
16-10-2008, 12:34 AM
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my good friend in the know assures me they will be up to the job .... pics make them look small but are infact a reasonable size .also dont forget most of the force through the arb has now been transferred to the comp strut so is under a lot less stress using this setup
the roll bar itself has some small adjustment for end-float aswell which i like
he says the weakpoint in the setup will be the galv drop links which i will be replacing anyway with proper jobbies.
whole lot will also be bolted and welded for added stiffness and strength ..
best thing is like i say the arb can now just do what it was intended for ,instead of acting as a compression strut itself and being under a constant pressure .
should also do away with any body roll you usually get when running just comp struts on their own .also means you dont have to stiffen your coilovers up to the max to suppress the body roll
the roll bar itself has some small adjustment for end-float aswell which i like
he says the weakpoint in the setup will be the galv drop links which i will be replacing anyway with proper jobbies.
whole lot will also be bolted and welded for added stiffness and strength ..
best thing is like i say the arb can now just do what it was intended for ,instead of acting as a compression strut itself and being under a constant pressure .
should also do away with any body roll you usually get when running just comp struts on their own .also means you dont have to stiffen your coilovers up to the max to suppress the body roll
Last edited by stage 3 muppet; 16-10-2008 at 12:37 AM.
16-10-2008, 08:30 AM
#40
Markk,
You're doing the Tim Finch thing of comparing full on race cars that ONLY get used to do events, with road cars that get the occasional use on the track (okay, he always compares everything with a full on WRC car, but you get what I mean 
) .
I desparately want to fit compression struts on my car (WITHOUT sacrificing the ARB), but NO-ONE can tell me what bladed Grp A style ARB I need to be as stiff as the standard one in it's mid-setting (so I can try both softer and harder to see what improvements this gives (as in making the ARB softer or harder)).
You're doing the Tim Finch thing of comparing full on race cars that ONLY get used to do events, with road cars that get the occasional use on the track (okay, he always compares everything with a full on WRC car
, but you get what I mean ) .I desparately want to fit compression struts on my car (WITHOUT sacrificing the ARB), but NO-ONE can tell me what bladed Grp A style ARB I need to be as stiff as the standard one in it's mid-setting (so I can try both softer and harder to see what improvements this gives (as in making the ARB softer or harder)).
Last edited by Mike Rainbird; 16-10-2008 at 08:33 AM.