cossie51

Currently running just over 400bhp on a pretty much standard 200 block but my turbo is maxed out so was looking to go bigger which would mean I can run more power but what upgrades would I need to do to the block internals to give me peace of mind that it's not going to blowup if I pushed it up to 500 + bhp.

Block is currently .5 over bored so would I also need to have liners fitted ?
car is 2wd so not looking for massive power as don't see the point in spending loads to handle loads more power than is possible to use in a 2wd sapphire.

already running modern aftermarket management so the engine control side of things is covered.

Adam-M

You can spend as much as you like here, the internals as standard are good for 500bhp even on 0.5 bore, cosworth said they designed a 500bhp engine and they wouldn’t sell 0.5mm over bore pistons if it was going to change that.

At the very least I’d add long studs, Steel gasket and have everything measured to see what else needs done. There has been people (cossie rich) running near 500hp without longstuds.

im going for similar power but upgrading everything for piece of mind

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

I would get it upto 500 and if you crack the block then go all out and fit liners. It's all about the Condition of your present engine I would sayand the abuse you intend giving it.

I have a couple of big power engines but will never probably damage either because I drive like miss daisy lol

cossie51

I know you can run them at 500 bhp on standard internals but how long for it starts to give trouble. The idea is to replace any internals needed to give long term reliability but at the same time not waste money on fancy parts that are not required below say 5-550 bhp.

I know I could spend thousands on fancy parts. I would love to have the alloy block and all that goes with it but that's all a bit out of my price range and over kill for what I need.

Trying NOT to spend money on stuff I want but don't need is the plan

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

Are you on standard crank?


The good thing about 2wd is you spin Most off the stress out of the rear wheels

cossie51

Yes it's on a standard crank. I'm all a bit lost on this as spoke to a few tuners and they all have very different ideas on what's needed. Some say standard crank others say billet crank and the same with liners. Some say it would be fine at .5 others say liners to get back to standard bore.

All very confusing!

Adam-M

Well like you I didn’t want paranoia so I’m going ductile liners, cp short pistons, Carrillo long rods, MAD long studs, wrc steel gasket, big wing sump, uprated oil pump ect ect.

cossie51

So are you going to stick with the standard crank ? What power are you looking at ? With what you have said your going to use that sounds very much like the MAD 600bhp spec.

Adam-M

I’m starting with 450 with an old t38 I want reliability as it will be used on track quite allot, standard cranks are very strong I’ve had mine checked out and will be balanced ect. Mark said someone else has used a similar spec to I think 760hp there’s no reason why not. I want to future proof it if I do get used to the power I have.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

That's why I said it depends on how it's going to be driven adam. Using a car in anger on track or giving a it some beans down the motorway every now and again is night and day on the stresses involved in a engine

Adam-M

What are you going to use it for? I know someone local to me running 460bhp on a rebuilt to standard spec 2wd engine and the only bother he’s had is head gasket issues. That car is 205 block, 0.5 overbore, new standard mahle pistons, standard rods, standard head gasket and standard head bolts and it gets abused hard. He accepts that it can go at any time but doesn’t care. I can do without that hassle lol but it shows it can be done.

Adam-M

Defo James

ajamesc

Im going 650 680 ish I’m told a standard cranks limit is 700 ish

cossie51

My car is just a weekend toy and only used on the road but gets driven hard up to the speed limits as I'm not interested in doing silly speeds these days as lost my licence years ago for speeding.
Now days I'm more interested in something with lots of power and torque that gets me there as quick as the car can handle than what speed it will do.

My ideal spec is something that is right on the limit of what the car can put down but also reliable to the point I can just use it all the time with just routine maintenance and not having to take it apart and fix things every 5 minutes.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

a 3.9 diff is a good way to get the equivalent of 50 bhp mate .transform your acceleration

cossie51

Had a 3.9 CWP put in when I had my Gripper diff built.

cossie51

Since building the engine 8 years ago at which point I never thought i would want anything past 400 bhp so standard 200 block with standard rods, crank, and pistons but with valve cut outs. Mild ported head and BD15 inlet cam set up on vernier pulleys WRC steel head gasket, ARP Stud & nut kit. I have worked my way through the engine upgrading stuff like big wing gated sump full WRC breather system, AS plenum, top of the range Link G4+ Thunder engine management with DBW Throttle body and wheel slip traction
im now at the point where my T34/63 is at its limit and don't feel I want to risk the engine by just bolting on a bigger turbo and hoping it holds together hence wanting to know what I need to upgrade without going over the top with parts that are not needed to be changed up to 5-550 bhp.

Adam-M

The biggest problem is your gonna have extra bore wear from when it was originally done so might need to go +1mm.

cossie51

If it has wear in the bores then I would rather have liners fitted than bore it and create a possible weak point.

I have no issue spending the money where it is it is needed but don't want to waste money doing stuff I don't need to do.

Adam-M

What do you mean by stuff you don’t need to do?

cossie51

As in, if Parts aren't needed at the 5-550 bhp power level I don't to waste money on them.

Pefect example, billet crank. If the standard crank is good for that power I don't want the expense of a billet item.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

i would have said your crank would be fine for your application matey

Adam-M

I’d find a reputable builder that has a proven record with cossies and go with their recommendations, There’s been hundreds of 500hp yb’s without a billet crank

turbotrev

A lot of it will be down to condition of components and tolerances regarding how long it will be reliable and last.

And different tuners will all have slightly different opinions on the same outcome.

A standard crank will be fine up to 700hp if dead straight, even rods and pistons will be fine at 500-550hp.
Your block maybe fine in standard from but it’s a gamble as you can’t be 100% on how good the bores are so I would ductile liner it, and if taking the engine apart anyway it’s not too dear to get done.
Most use long studs but again not a necessity depending on who you talk to

Cheers Paul

steveboyslim

Most crank will have signs of wear and will need a grind, anything over 0.25mm under size, sell it on ebay.
Rods are good for 500 bhp if they are new with new rod bolts, they go better with the 136mm long rods, Arrow rods with arp 625 bolts or Carrillo rods with sps bolts £1100-£1200 with CP pistons £750+
PME no longer does the machining work for long studs, oil jets or wet liners but there are other places.
If the block is worn at 0.5mm and needs to go 1.0mm liner it of sell on ebay and get a replacement.
Head will need valve guides if not already done.
Head porting will also help get the power easier.

Steve

cossie51

Thank you Steve that info is very helpful 👍🏻