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General Car Related Discussion.To discuss anything that is related to cars and automotive technology that doesnt naturally fit into another forum catagory.
I'd question either the sensors or location of the sensors in the two scenarios.
900 is way too high for a short single gear pull as you'd do on a dyno, at any speed.
Even mine with crappy log manifolds would only be hitting 900 or so at the end of a 1/4
Although.....there is a red herring here. As presumably your GTR is not running EGT per cylinder ? cylinder port temps will be lower than at the turbine inlet.
If your meaning like 500 rpm as mega extra lag then I'm in aggreance, I can't see any 4 banger making full boost much before 5000 rpm for 710 hp on pump fuel with 30 psi
Ok so obviously there are only a handful of cossies with over 700hp and the ones I’ve seen graphs for are all on 9180 turbos, this is the nearest comparison I can find so take it with a pinch of salt but it still proves what I’m saying, this engine has also covered over 10k miles at over 600hp.
This is an evo 7 I believe, a 2lt (not 2.2 like yours), on pump fuel, and on an turbo which is quite a bit smaller than a 9180 (it’s not an efr either)
Top lines are 2.2 and bottom lines are 1.8 bar of boost, spools about 800rpm sooner than yours but almost identical power right up to the 8600rpm limit (so again roughly the same as yours)
I'd question either the sensors or location of the sensors in the two scenarios.
900 is way too high for a short single gear pull as you'd do on a dyno, at any speed.
Even mine with crappy log manifolds would only be hitting 900 or so at the end of a 1/4
Although.....there is a red herring here. As presumably your GTR is not running EGT per cylinder ? cylinder port temps will be lower than at the turbine inlet.
So again, not really comparable test or setting.
My gtr is egt per cylinder, and not a one gear pull like dyno but not a full 1/4 Mile pull either as not from standing start a rolling squirt if you like lol
Ok so obviously there are only a handful of cossies with over 700hp and the ones I’ve seen graphs for are all on 9180 turbos, this is the nearest comparison I can find so take it with a pinch of salt but it still proves what I’m saying, this engine has also covered over 10k miles at over 600hp.
This is an evo 7 I believe, a 2lt (not 2.2 like yours), on pump fuel, and on an turbo which is quite a bit smaller than a 9180 (it’s not an efr either)
Top lines are 2.2 and bottom lines are 1.8 bar of boost, spools about 800rpm sooner than yours but almost identical power right up to the 8600rpm limit (so again roughly the same as yours)
Cheers Paul
The evos always seem to come on boost quicker than ybs from all marks plots ive seen although the Evo engine is a newer engine so I guess a more efficient pump
Im sure mark estimated the housing would be worth about 300 - 400 rpm of spool, I'd have to ask but that's what I seem to remember
Do you know what turbo that is as it's certainly making a huge curve
I don't think the evos spool quite that early on all 9180 plots ive seen
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 03-02-2020 at 06:24 PM.
When it makes full boost is dependant on which gear it's in, the higher the gear, the more load and the sooner it will come on boost
I can't imagine any 2 litre 4 banger can have a much bigger curve than that on pump fuel at a sensible boost level around 30 psi
From my experience of alot of high power cars that is one hell of a curve for that power from a small engine
To make 1000 hp with minimum lag a little 4 banger is a waste of time you need a bigger engine, that's not opinion it's physics !
1000bhp+ Honda K20's are massive over in the USA, still 2ltr units.
1000bhp+ Honda K20's are massive over in the USA, still 2ltr units.
I can only imagine mate but I can't imagine any of them are low lag with 1 turbo and no nos
I don't know anything about them but I'd bet there a far better foundation of an engine than an old pinto lol
Truth or not I knew a comment like that would ensue 😂😂
It’s a big secret....
Cheers Paul
lol fair enough
I think it's about 200 rpm quicker than the best efr plots on evos in that thread so whatever it is its definitely spooling well
These new Garrett turbos look interesting to, I guess things will just keep progressing and small gains over short periods become big gains over longer periods like looking back at t4s now, the bolloxs back in the day but now it would be shite by comparison to new stuff lol
I can only imagine mate but I can't imagine any of them are low lag with 1 turbo and no nos
I don't know anything about them but I'd bet there a far better foundation of an engine than an old pinto lol
your probably correct mate but they rev happily to 10-11k all day long
As my new project is going K20 ive done a fair amount of research and they seem a fair bit of kit, guys are running that power on stock cranks, they use a girdle setup oe, 4piston are one of the biggest tuners for them
your probably correct mate but they rev happily to 10-11k all day long
As my new project is going K20 ive done a fair amount of research and they seem a fair bit of kit, guys are running that power on stock cranks, they use a girdle setup oe, 4piston are one of the biggest tuners for them
11k that is getting on with it
Is a k20 a Honda engine ?
yeah so many over there that are street cars 800-1000+
few big power civics in UK also
Im K20 in my new project
All them civics use mahoosive turbos much bigger than a 9180.
they don’t make proper power till about 7/8k revs but like you said they rev till about 11k.
Some are street legal but they are far from a road car.
Bit of a pointless road engine if your gonna turbo it and run big power imo
Just watched the LLF YouTube vid of the said 700hp Astra and although it’s a monster and entertaining it’s just a big power top speed machine.
wheelspins right through to 4th gear, will be extremely laggy and you’d need to keep it really high in the revs for a wide powerband.
it looks entertaining to drive though.
only ran a 12.5 quarter
All them civics use mahoosive turbos much bigger than a 9180.
they don’t make proper power till about 7/8k revs but like you said they rev till about 11k.
Some are street legal but they are far from a road car.
Bit of a pointless road engine if your gonna turbo it and run big power imo
Just watched the LLF YouTube vid of the said 700hp Astra and although it’s a monster and entertaining it’s just a big power top speed machine.
wheelspins right through to 4th gear, will be extremely laggy and you’d need to keep it really high in the revs for a wide powerband.
it looks entertaining to drive though.
only ran a 12.5 quarter
My supra was 757 hp at the hubs and only managed a best of 11.9 @ 134 mph at pod but my part in it wasnt perfect lol
Best speed I ever got was 136 mph, but that supra was bloody heavy
I wonder how much the astra weighs ? 130 mph could be on the money for 700 hp, with no grip killing the ets
You've got alot more pod time under your belt than me, 130 mph with full grip should be what a high 10 low 11 maybe ?
My saff was 520hp, at pod on full power I ran a 126mph terminal but traction was crap.
I then turned the boost down to around 26 psi to get a better start and I eventually ran my quickest time of 12.3 but it was only at 122mph terminal.
So I actually ran a better terminal with less traction but the power on the top end is what gave me a higher mph.
In that vid he says the Astra was running 700hp, that car at standard weigh is 1400kgs, my saff is 1200 standard , I think both are prob at least 100kgs heavier than standard (especially as he has a cage) but with that weight difference and him having at least 200hp more the difference in terminal was only 3/4 mph, I would
of expected a lot more from the Astra but saying that he must be on on tall gearing hence it pulled 195mph
My gearing is lower than standard.
I think his quarter and terminal is kinda expected for a big turbo car that’s set up for top speed...
I think his quarter and terminal is kinda expected for a big turbo car that’s set up for top speed...
Cheers Paul
Not necessarily setup for speed....but not attempting a fast quarter. The thole quarter...and speed over distance thing is very strange. It just doesnt work out the way you think it should.
Often very lazy looking runs at the start, can achieve very good terminals at the end.
Not necessarily setup for speed....but not attempting a fast quarter. The thole quarter...and speed over distance thing is very strange. It just doesnt work out the way you think it should.
Often very lazy looking runs at the start, can achieve very good terminals at the end.
If he’s trying to break the 200mph mark then he’s def set up for top speed!!
The Maltese have been running ybt in the 7s for years and jonny hexa ran 7.4 about a year ago in a mk1 escort,the do have some ybt engines in the dragster chassis that run 6s ,all depends how brave you are with the boost,in this country we think 30 psi is a lot where other countries that would be classed as a shopping car with that boost lol,60 to 100 psi go through these engines these days that’s why they run crazy times,
heres vid of escort
My saff was 520hp, at pod on full power I ran a 126mph terminal but traction was crap.
I then turned the boost down to around 26 psi to get a better start and I eventually ran my quickest time of 12.3 but it was only at 122mph terminal.
So I actually ran a better terminal with less traction but the power on the top end is what gave me a higher mph.
In that vid he says the Astra was running 700hp, that car at standard weigh is 1400kgs, my saff is 1200 standard , I think both are prob at least 100kgs heavier than standard (especially as he has a cage) but with that weight difference and him having at least 200hp more the difference in terminal was only 3/4 mph, I would
of expected a lot more from the Astra but saying that he must be on on tall gearing hence it pulled 195mph
My gearing is lower than standard.
I think his quarter and terminal is kinda expected for a big turbo car that’s set up for top speed...
Cheers Paul
Those times and speeds are really good TBF mate, what was your 60 ft ? I think best I ever managed at pod was 2.2 even with AWD FFS lol
I'm hopeful I can beat my 11.9 @ 134 pb rwd in the Cossie, if I can't il have to give someone else the keys
The Maltese have been running ybt in the 7s for years and jonny hexa ran 7.4 about a year ago in a mk1 escort,the do have some ybt engines in the dragster chassis that run 6s ,all depends how brave you are with the boost,in this country we think 30 psi is a lot where other countries that would be classed as a shopping car with that boost lol,60 to 100 psi go through these engines these days that’s why they run crazy times,
heres vid of escort https://youtu.be/CX2AH9-Ms2E
Absolutely awesome incredible the motors hold together but I don't care how well they built it those motors ain't lasting long at 4+ bar of boost that is bonkers !
They must have regular rebuilds surely
I was asked if I wanted 3 bar on the new gtr but I think il stick at 2.5 bar max lol
I guess I should try 3 bar at some point in the gtr or the Cossie, must make an awesome noise from in the car 45 psi of boost whistling away, imagine the amount of turbo overspeed
The Maltese have been running ybt in the 7s for years and jonny hexa ran 7.4 about a year ago in a mk1 escort,the do have some ybt engines in the dragster chassis that run 6s ,all depends how brave you are with the boost,in this country we think 30 psi is a lot where other countries that would be classed as a shopping car with that boost lol,60 to 100 psi go through these engines these days that’s why they run crazy times,
heres vid of escort https://youtu.be/CX2AH9-Ms2E
Forgot about the black dragster, think it was 6.6ish or something he said it had ran. The Lixxu car is cooler though, and has pipped the green car.
It's incredible how they keep the cylinders sealed it amazes me
I wonder with those enormous gt50 odd size turbos if there making power and torque alot higher in the rev range helps eleviate some of the cylinder pressures as the rpms are higher expelling the gas quicker ?
Most will not run full cooling systems, and some none at all. So slightly less to seal. And they'll be using various styles of rings/gaskets.
I dont think they're using crazy rpm's though.
Must be making some massive power, they must be very light a drag chassis with a little 4 banger in it but even so 6.5 seconds for over 200 mph is getting on with it
And I guess without being involved there's no way of knowing how many runs they get on average before they have to rebuild
At the door slammers Justin ladmu rotary escort which has gone mid 7s had about 3 engine builds over the weekend ,but I think that’s a rotary thing ,they are great when they hold together but always seam very unreliable at big power
Yea....does seem a little odd some of them moved to rotaries.
Any engine can be expensive at top levels...but those rotaries just seem so inconsistent and unreliable. Last November, almost none of them could manage even a couple of consistent runs.
Yea....does seem a little odd some of them moved to rotaries.
Any engine can be expensive at top levels...but those rotaries just seem so inconsistent and unreliable. Last November, almost none of them could manage even a couple of consistent runs.
That's what puts me off, I love the old rx7s but unreliability puts me off ever owning one
Stevie genuine question and I ment to ask you last time we spoke,have you had any major failures with your engines ,I mean head gaskets or bearings pistons etc and I don’t mean from bad mapping just general rotating parts etc
Most issues would be in some way blameable I guess.
I had a set of pistons crack between the pin and the skirt on pretty much all 8. Which I could never really explain. Although I melted a piston and it did lift a head a little when my meth system failed, which lead to me finding that out before they actually failed big style. Which was fortunate.
The meth issue was my own fault in some regard...but that never did explain the cracking on the pistons. That engine was well used though, as I'd been to Santa Pod a load of times and lots of road miles too. But that should not happen to pistons.
I did have a massive meltdown doing top speed runs back in 2008. But again....my own fault. Initially the alternator failed that day, but stupid me kept on trying for the 200mph mile....and failed. On both counts, as the fucking organisers had reduced it to 7/8th mile after a rabbit ate through their cable. So I'd have never got a mile anyway ! LOL ( although did get 198mph that day at 7/8th )
Obviously with less electrical power, things would never run the same and there's no doubt too I probably had far too much timing too. Really after the alternator failed on that first or second run....I should have stopped racing. It was stupid.
And the a mysterious big one that blew the head apart and bent a rod ( hydraulic lock of some sort ) about 3 years ago. And that was just on the road mucking about, not even pushing anything hard. Really no clue what happened there or what initiated it all.
But in general, actual components have always held together well.
Whilst again off topic, Richard Holdener has been doing a shitload of videos lately with different setups and tests. All very American, and quite interesting. Makes me want to buy a dyno.
I here you pal ,you’ve had some let’s say unfortunate incidents,some self inflicted lol,I only asked as I no your running good power and the engine is no where near built like some of the extravagant builds ,that was all cheers
03-02-2020, 05:43 PM
