turbotrev

Fully understand that Mark.
Thanks again for the info.
I was just interested what else people have or had used as alternatives that was all.

Cossiedave I'm guessing you have an MAD setup then?
And you say you T4 was ok???

Cheers Paul

Rod-Tarry

Paul

It does not matter to me what you do you have been given advice you take it or leave it. If preference is getting full boost 800rpm before the equivalent Garrett then you are correct I do have a preference. Most on here never run there cars against the clock so any Spec quoting 600bhp will be fast down the pub.
Build it, enjoy it but maybe don't seek advice again.

Scott_Rst

I suppose you could spend all day asking diff opinions, and thats the thing, EVERYONE is different,

But it will all come down to what you want personally, Just to make the big bhp numbers/or to have the bhp but also the response/drivability similar to much more modern cars?

I don't have a cosworth or a borg turbo, so I'm not biased to any cosworth specialists, but I've seen dyno graphs on here I THINK, from MAD comparing EFR's with some other turbo type and spool up was remarkably better on EFR, (possibly could've been on an evo engine)

theres no doubt really that EFRs seem to be the way to go IF funds allow,
but at end of day before borg turbos everyone was more than happy with GT/GTX series turbos so you're still not going to have a bad engine with one of that type fitted,, but if i was speccing a 600+ Yb i personally would be looking for as much responsiveness as possible so id try to get a EFR,

scott

turbotrev

Good point Scott.
Not that long ago everyone was happy with gt/gtx turbos including people like Rod.

I was simply asking originally what alternatives there were out there.
I knew everyone would start mentioning the efr turbos (which I have seen lots of threads on) hence why I said non efr in my original post.

I know times move on and these are really good turbos.
I'm not saying otherwise.

Rod your car is an exception to pretty much everyone regarding its spec and use.
So was it that bad on its gt35, gt40, etc??

Cheers Paul

3doorcozmess

Surely you're contradicting yourself?how many turbos have you tried.

it's all about developing and working with money you have. People say save up and do it once but that could mean your car is off the road for years so what's the point in that. I want a car I can drive.

That's like save up get the house you want but we no that don't happen you have to start some where.

Rod-Tarry

Not really the car improved the rwd Topspeed record from 183.2mph up to 206.1 in under 3 years by changing Turbos & developing the engine we did not stay at the same Power & always used the best parts available at the time.
As for houses ive said a few times on here build your life before your car. See many on here not doing that its very foolish. I relaxed at 40 having set my self up & purchased a fast car again after a 15 year gap. I can indulge myself these days because I did it that way.

Rod-Tarry

Compared to what ? . Back then it blew the opposition away with gt35, gt40 & gt42. But then is not now my gt35 engine was 660bhp today I can have 920bhp with better spool than that engine. Its called progress.

turbotrev

Rod I thinking your looking too deep into this subject.
This was a post about turbo alternatives not a post about how good efr turbos are and what you think everyone should do.

Your car is different to virtually everyone else's needs on this forum and you have bought nothing to this thread other than negative comments.

Can't people just make do with they can afford to do?

Why can't people be happy with with say a gt35/40? You thought it was the best thing 5/10 years ago so because things have moved on means it shit now and people shouldn't bother?

You are at a different point in your life and have a lot more money to burn compared to other people as well as totally different requirements when the subject is your car.

As as for asking for opinions on subjects thats part of the reason these forums are created.

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

The gt35 was a good turbo 12years ago when I first used it. This is the problem other manufactors have moved on there Garrett frustrating have not really improved there products in that time.
At that time this is where we were comfortable with there stuff but luckily took a chance and moved on. Many in the Cossie seen however have not this is where the devide comes with others not taking the chance and developing new stuff.
Yes for sure budget will come in to this and it takes a person a bit of effort to make the commitment to spend the extra where before a quick swap of a turbo was Ł1000 to Ł1500 where now it's 3k. But what you get is a amazing diff.
Go back 10years and compare to today my gt30 500hp engine spools 800+rpm earlier and makes 40ftlb and 20hp and only Ł1500more a bargain if you ask me but it does cost more sadly.

Mark

turbotrev

I do get that Mark.
But if people are happy to run that these days why is that a problem?
Yes there is better technology out there and I know this tuning game (especially cossies) ain't cheap at that kinda power, but for people like myself that may only have certain funding at present or don't necessarily need the latest best equipment then surely other/older options could be fine?
That's all I'm getting at.
If for example I was building a 600hp engine setup from scratch then maybe I would have gone a totally different route, who knows....

It's a shame Garrett aren't doing much.

Your answers in this thread have been very informative and to the point which is great.
I just find rods attitude a bit negative unfortunately...

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

Of corse they all work but for me after seeing the newer set ups going backwards hurts lol.
If you started from scratch and worked out how much you spent it would be closer. Sadly once the money spent for some they can't progress land then see the diff on today's tech.

Mark

turbotrev

I bet it does!!! Ha ha
Especially as you guys are some of of the top in the game.

Very true

Cheers Paul

DAN400

iTrader: (3)

im surprised theres no one here using a precision of some sort,
very popular over here in drift cars and take lots of abuse
maybe they don't fit the std manifold ??

mk2 escort boy

iTrader: (1)

I hAve to say great advice from a great tuner
I spoke to a fair few before going to Mark he was the only one that gave me the answers I wanted and was realistic with the spec I'm sure I'm not the only one that says this but I would never use any one else now

I run a borgwarner setup probly with doubt the best mod I have done

Mark Shead

I have had a couple of Evo's come in but sadly both cars broke them on the way to me,
Two years ago when in TA there were a couple in there to and also had problems,
They from what I hear can work well but are fragile.

Mark

Adam-M

Hi mark, how much sooner will an efr turbo spool over an equivalent sized turbo? What makes an efr so special is it just the fact that the efr is twin scroll or are they both twin scroll and single scroll available and both are much superior?

I haven't researched these turbos tbh but I gather you know a lot about them so no point searching else where when I can just message you.

Me personally I am going to go for a t34.63 next as I want to experience one once in my life, I think the lag is a characteristic of the cosworth that I accept or I would of bought an Evo MR or Impreza spec c instead.

Look forward to your reply.

Adam

turbotrev

There are a few threads elsewhere on this site that you may find a good read covering all that kinda info buddy

Cheers Paul

gjh

I think what people are saying is there isn't an alternative to a borg warner now, yes maybe in terms of peak power but peak power is just a small percentage of the whole equation when it comes to and engine.

Mark Shead

A gt3076 against a Efr 7064 is 800rpm better in spool. Some of this is down to using a good twin scroll manifold the other is down to the turbo.

Mark

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi mark
would you class a 2wd manifold as twin scroll

Mark Shead

It is a twin scroll manifold but very old in its design and can't match modern manifolds. The biggest problem also is getting a t3 housing with int twin scroll wastegate.

Mark

eel-roy-t5r

what power will the 7064 make as that's what am thinking of getting and keeping it internallay gated and what boost , , standard engine but would buy cams and do head work , cheers

Mark Shead

On a good set up over 520hp poss. On a stock engine I have seen 468hp and just doing another one with a hart Inlet and a spec r cooler so expecting 480hp on a stock engine.

Mark

smiley

Hi mark could I ask what would 650 be at the wheels on a 4x4 ?

Cheers

Mark Shead

Need to check but 480hp sounds about right from mem.

Mark

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

I love old school - 8 injectors and a T4 lol

ajamesc

They look good in museums

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

Yeah and RS500's are shit too

ajamesc

Im only pulling your leg lol. And I love rs500's there just slow! But saying that I'd take an evo1 Merc 190 over an rs500 and there even slower lol

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

Just messin too. Love the touring car era and it was genuine 540bhp then and still can be today. Yes it's not refined and yes it's leggy and yes it has old school management. Love it cuz it's proven by btcc and don't necessarily cost what the latest trend dictates these days.
And gt30 or gt35 are cheap alternatives to proper t4's ha.

Adam-M

That is amazing I didn't know it was a twin scroll as standard.

jamie956

What's the power range of a 7163 have the chance to buy one but I think its abit to big for me, also are the exhaust housings tied to the turbos size can they be changed like Garrett's.


Jamie

Rod-Tarry

Of course you can do what you want & afford Paul. Problem is I see the incredible progress that this Turbo made & Mark then build his engine around it to optimise it. You can be happy with any Turbo provided you don't start comparing it with the latest ones. You want 600bhp which means you want to go fast but that will be badly compromised by your Turbo choice certainly under road conditions. This really has nothing to do with my car or my advancing years its just I felt you should at least be told your choice of Turbo was not a good choice in 2015. Its a dozen years since I had a GT35 & yes back then they were the best. Ive a son that never listens either but I love him just the same so press ahead Paul & enjoy it.

stu21t

So can you use an efr on a std 2wd manifold?
I understand it would be better on a new one but would it be better than say a Gt series on a std 2wd manifold?
And what housing would be best? A very quick google shoes that most of the twin scroll are T4 flange and the T3 flange is single scroll?

I've got. t34 .63 on a ported head (24.5mm inlets I think, not sure on exhaust, Neil roper head) with a std exhaust cam and bd14 inlet, spaced, ported and flowed 4wd inlet and 2wd exhaust manifold.

What would a 7064 do on an engine like that?

JonnyBravo

I'm not so sure about only Mark and Julian are being credited as the only good yb tuners? Last time I checked Harvey seemed to build some race winning engines and I'm quite sure their not the only 3 in the country capable of building a good engine.

As for the EFR I don't think they're the best turbo available, undoubtably the best on spool though which is what steers me towards one.

ajamesc

What turbos are better than borg's at this moment on yb's in your opinion

stevieturbo

They build them in many fitments so that definitely isnt the reason

I've used them on several non-Cossie cars and they've been great, even up to near 40psi. Only had one sort of unexplained failure but that was likely down to weld debris from inside the manifold. At least it's the only plausible explanation even if there shouldnt have been any debris

And in Subaru circles, the Gobstopper uses a Precision turbo now, after testing many makes including Garrett and the EFR's

JonnyBravo

See Stevies reply as he has obviously seen the same thing I have.

None yb but a very honest none biased test

Rod-Tarry

Don't think Mark mentioned anything other than Evo or YB builds & he is a fairly competent chappie to assess the merits of those. Of course other Turbos work & if you spend the 200k on a car like Gobstopper your a mug if it don't work. We are talking a budget build YB here built to a typical spec with the only variable is a bolt on Turbo. On these engines the EFR rules, if you are building a race engine with the gearbox to suit other Turbos may make more Power & the loss lower down wont matter. Its horses for courses race engines are as far away from road engines as you can get.

JonnyBravo

Who is to say that the precision won't out perform the EFR on a road engine ? We have seen EFR vs Gtx on the same engine but not all 3 or more.

I'm not knocking Marks efforts or results at all though Rod