smiley

I think these kind of threads are invaluable to somebody building just think how many tens of thousands have been spent by others to get this knowledge and information free r+d can't beat it

nixon_2wd

stevieturbo

Precision are bolt on turbos and nothing special required to fit them, and their range is literally vast although it's their newer Gen2 units that offer the better performance vs the older stuff.

I dont doubt EFR's are very good but from the previous thread the main thing I took from it wasnt that they appeared outstanding, just more that the graphs of GT30's seemed diabolically shit compared to how they perform on other engines

Of course a graph is just a graph, and doesnt always tell how it performs on the road.

Mark Shead

Hp is easy response is harder to get this is where the Efr will out perform.

Mark

jontysafe

The 7163 is actually the smallest twin scroll EFR I believe unless things have changed. It`s the smaller frame size than the 7064 and I would class it as a 450-500hp turbo. Response time it looks very good though. You would need a good intercooler, like a Spec-R unit to make the best of it at the higher boost levels. it will do 60lbs/hr whereas the 7064 will do only 56lbs/hr but that only tells one side of the story.
As with anything it depends what spec you are looking for.

Mark Shead

A 7163 is not a turbo suited to a high boost Yb.

Mark

jontysafe

That`s interesting you say that as I know you tried one recently or do I have that wrong. Is it because it`s too much of a restriction? I am torque limited because of traction issues so was looking at maxing out at approx. 28psi. with a 7163.
That is even if I can get a twin scroll manifold custom made to fit in the space restricted Westfield.


This is probably why the gt3076 worked so well because of the high boost threshold, by the time I came on boost traction issues were less of a problem as it was 4500+ for full boost.

turbotrev

Do you need to run high boost (30+ lb) to see the high torque figures on the efr turbos?

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

No I have seen 460ftlb at 1.9bar on a 7163 and 490ftlb at 2.2bar on a 7064 and 535ftlb on the same turbo.

Mark

stu21t

Mark, did you see this post?

So can you use an efr on a std 2wd manifold?
I understand it would be better on a new one but would it be better than say a Gt series on a std 2wd manifold?
And what housing would be best? A very quick google shoes that most of the twin scroll are T4 flange and the T3 flange is single scroll?

I've got. t34 .63 on a ported head (24.5mm inlets I think, not sure on exhaust, Neil roper head) with a std exhaust cam and bd14 inlet, spaced, ported and flowed 4wd inlet and 2wd exhaust manifold.

What would a 7064 do on an engine like that?

Mark Shead

The turbo will work on your engine but the turbo touches the head. You can make up a diff link pipe to move it away. I looked at this but decided it was not worth the effort/cost as you might as well put a proper manifold on and have extra benefits of that.

Mark

Guinnless

Brilliant

Caddyshack

I am not sure this 2nd hand one would do 600bhp but shows you can buy them cheaply

https://passionford.com/forum/ford-r...oll-turbo.html

Hellraiser

Does internal or external waste gate make any difference? What's advantages/ disadvantages over each other?

nixon_2wd

Physics.

The EFR has the lightest / most efficient compressor-turbine assembly on the market for their size. The titanium turbine makes it faster spooling than all other brands currently on inconel. Titanium is half the density to that of steel, which makes a huge difference in moment of inertia. BW utilize the lighter material to form a more efficient turbine wheel than what's achieved with inconel, due to mass. A EFR turbine design made of inconel would result in a very laggy turbo..

turbotrev

That does look reasonably priced Caddyshack.
Would still need a fancy manifold though.
Would be interesting to see a efr on a standard 2wd manifold

Cheers Paul

stevieturbo

EFR spiel

http://www.full-race.com/articles/efrturbotechbrief.pdf

MarK4

In my opinion the place a efr really shines in in transient response due to the titanium exhaust wheel which makes the car much more drivable at low rpms. As a example comparing say a 7670 to a GTX30 both in single scroll format the difference in power curves on the dyno are minimal yet on the road the efr feels more lively. On a drag strip I predict there would be little difference.

Here is a link to perrin's comparison of the efr's and gtx range a few years ago on a Subaru 2.5 sti.

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/bo...-tuned-part-2/

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

has anyone ever tried the efr 6258 or 6758 on a zetec .does the turbos characteristics suit a 2.1 zetec .im only looking for 400 bhp as its going through the front wheels lol

smiley

I think crazycage is running an efr on a zetec give him a shout mate look up the other efr post I'm sure he mentioned it on thier

Adam-M

That is the kind of reply I was looking for mate well done, I thought there was more to it than just being twin scroll as twin scrolls have been out for years so I was thinking what's the big deal until I read your post.

Mark Shead

I have just fitted a 6758 to a YB and in testing unmapped in 5th 2bar at 2750rpm.

Mark

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

Sound a impressive mark.

What are you hoping to get from it once mapped

BRAM

iTrader: (1)

How about a Borg Warner s300

Mark Shead

400 to 420hp.

Mark

Mark Shead

It is a very good turbo in all of its S300 versions but the EFR is a better turbo.

Mark

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=Mark Shead;6642767]400 to 420hp.

Mark[/QUOT

Is that on a standard manifold?

Mark Shead

[QUOTE=james kiely;6642769]No it is not.

Mark

stevieturbo

Oil journals, some of their new SXE range are nice, but a big S200SXE would probably fit the bill better for around 600hp on a 2.0

http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...1-12769095003/

A lot of them use the exact same compressor wheel as the EFR, just oil journal and different turbine wheel and much cheaper of course.

I'd think even the smallest 300 would be quite laggy on a Cossie ? Smallest billet wheel 300 is either a cast 60mm wheel or billet 62mm ( inducer sizes )

http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...8-13009097056/

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

So power wise it would be comparable to a T36? How much RPM would a T36 need to make the 2 bar boost?

Mark Shead

It should make a bit more than a t36. I mapped a t36 this week and deff surge is a problem on them and I had to limit boost to 1.2bar to 4K not a good hybrid turbo.

Mark

turbotrev

As the manlfold plays 50% of the gain when using an efr what about running a custom exhaust manifold with say a gt35 or gt40?

Would you gain much over the standard 2wd manifold?

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

The GT35 in twin scroll as already said does not work well in twin scroll, You would need to use a GT4088 to make the set up work at its best but thats a 700hp turbo which is about the HP you wanted.

Mark

turbotrev

And Rod used to run that setup years back?
With a custom manifold or on the 2wd unit?

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

Rods gt35 set up was a single scroll exhaust housing and the same with his first gt40 then we went with the ball bearing gt4088 and then tested a gt4094 and the then the gt4202 where all twin scroll.

Mark

The Enigma

Is that single or twin scroll? Can't find any links to anyone that does manifolds for the YB?

stevieturbo

Whilst not twin scroll, Powermax here in Cookstown has had the Aussie company 6 Boost make some YB manifolds recently

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7085682&type=3

mgtkr1

if money is a factor, go the gtx route. the compromise will be that it wont be anywhere near the efr in terms of response ect BUT if you can afford it in the foreseeable the get the efr. im of the belief, do it right, do it once. the gtx will probably do everything you want, it just wont do it quite as well as the efr. theres allways a compromise when it comers to money. to say rod has been hypocritical by preaching get the best available having used many different turbo's is pointless. im sure rods car used the best available at that time, added to that he was using the car at a compettion level of sorts. for what its worth I think the precision turbo's aren't quite up to scratch when it comes to reliability. don't take my word for it though, its just a thread I saw regarding turbo's and precision cropped up

Mark Shead

Seeing as I keep talking about my manifold are you not missing something

Mark

Mark Shead

The gtx is a backwards step from the Gt range. If you want something diff go for a Hta version it is better than a gtx.

Mark