flannigan

iTrader: (1)

That's also what I thought when I bought it unfortunately there is an issue with the method of fixing the gates to the baffle plate maybe the welding has caused the pins to become brittle ??? God knows but it has just cost me a £2k engine rebuild !!!!!

750hp escos

Its actually a worse idea to have a big wing sump and no baffles than to just have a std sump!!!

Sorry mate i was talking about spending a £1000 on a new big wing gated sump set up of tony when he only needs a proper gated baffle in his sump..

I understand this are just cheap copies and tbh id never use one as i like iv said a few times the ones iv ever seen or used in the last 20 years have been of much better quality for only like 15-20 quid more and never seen one go wrong..


My point is a decent big wing sump with a proper gated baffle shouldnt cost anymore than £250 max and is totally perfect for the job so a real easy fit and forget so cant see why people are talking about a special this and a special that and spending a grand on it..



cheers danny

Moonstone Steve.

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry to see this m8, glad Tony will be sorting mine know.

Steve

Rod-Tarry

I agree Mike .
Fitted mine in 1999 & just removed it to go dry sump, perfect condition & in another engine now.

Big wing without a baffle whats that all about do you drive at 50mph & never around any corners .

pig

That's a gutter dan.hope your running again son mate.I've been running one from Joe stevens for years and been fine thank fuck.see you Friday mate

750hp escos

Yours will be fine forever mate as thats the same as iv used since 1992!!

See you fri pig...


cheers danny

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

you have one in your car Rod?

why???? pmsl.

joke btw.

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

yes its just as important that the materials used and the method of fastening it all together is correct as the design is itself !!!

and danny i would quite gladly pay £1000 for a proper sump made by sombody who actually made the original than a very good looking copy that fails and costs me another engine way i see it is that it would have saved me £1000 and that is a price im more than willing to pay !!!

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

see what you mean Danny.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

My sumps are 295
where the fook do you get 1k from

750hp escos

I was just going by cossie4i s post a few posts back where he said a new sump baffle and breather kit was a grand..

Maybe the tight arse was exaggerating again??


cheers danny

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

how do work out that tonys sump is a grand when steve said it was a sump and breather sysyem fitted for £1000

750hp escos

Mate i dont want to argue with you so dont know why your picking one with me??

The way steve said it was that he had to spend a grand to run the above set up to stop big ends spinning..

All im saying is the big wing sump is just that the baffle part is the important bit and the breather has fuck all to di with it..

I was going by his post so not making it up but yes i agree with you that after your problem using one of tonys tried and tested baffles is the way to go but you deffo wont need a new sump(unless yours doesnt fit tonys baffles properly)and of course wont need a new breather just to suit the sump...

Im only saying this as steve made it sound like it was an all in thing he needed..



cheers danny

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

ahh ok lol

After this massive fuckup i am going to be removing the sump after every race to change the oil and filter and checkover things i would rather spend an extra £30 on a sump gasket and know its ok than worry about another failure !!!

B13 JUS

iTrader: (24)

are the g19 and the touring car spares baffles the same?

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

Yes mate

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

Same design, different maker

When Rich mentioned his failed baffle in the other thread i spoke to Doug regarding this as i have one of his fitted in my engine.
Doug told me he would send out another item with extra welds if i wanted free of charge but he said what they had on them was enough for the job and had never had a single failure in well over 300 sold items.
He mentioned that Rich's baffle had apparently failed and being the first had asked for the parts to be sent to him for inspection which he never got after agreeing to send a courier for them - the sump is what he really needed to see as it wasn't his and he had heard it was a complete mess.
It's not my argument it's between Rich and Doug but i would never take liability for parts/failure etc without seeing said items to make a decision.

So Justin do you have one of that design in yours?

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

I know Doug's ally welding is superb. I can't see why steel should not be as good. I have a sump and gated baffle from him in the garage that will be going on my 500 horse track car engine. I have not inspected the welds but will have a good look and if needs be get the mig out for insurance
All the dealings I have had have been very good and a true gent when I met him. He aint a rip off merchant and actually very helpful.

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

DO NOT mig weld it mate as it will cause it to crack with vibration as it makes the area around the weld hard and brittle you're better off braizing it together and letting it cool naturally not dumping it in water !!!!

750hp escos

Good idea if this isnt to much grief for you but in lal fairness if your that worried then why not just go dry sump??

Fit and forget apart from re placing pump drive belt every now and then and re building pump once a season??



cheers danny

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

Fair point - I can braize too

B13 JUS

iTrader: (24)

I have tcs in mine.
Is doug G19?

750hp escos

In all fairness the guy is obviously very talented but for one i doubt he sat there and welded like a batch of 50 himself?

Secondly you can be the best at what you do in the world but a mistake can be made at any time and with the photo evidence you can clearly see this baffle has failed ..

In this circumstance he cant deny its failed and is the cause of the engine problem..

Thirdly rich had his engine built more than once by a well known and trusted engine builder so surely if the baffle was to look like it dint or couldnt work surely rich as the customer should of been told??

Fouthly ,the baffle itself has fallen apart at the welds so doesnt matter what he says about the sump itself as whatever happens the welds shouldnt fall apart??


cheers danny

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

I have thought about a dry sump but I would be in the same boat if the belt were to snap I know this is unlikely but still a possibility ? Plus it's easy to remove my sump as the engine is chassis mounted

B13 JUS

iTrader: (24)

Anyone got a good big wing sump with baffles? Lol
I'm not risking my engine.

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

Plenty of people thought they did mate till all this came to light in all fairness I was very unlucky but I will be sending my failed unit to turbosystems and he will rework it as nesseseary I will be removing it every oil change to inspect it for defects but that is me being paranoid now I'm sure it will be fine !

Mr C

iTrader: (2)

That failed baffle set looks like it was mounted on nut welded to the frame- nuts have sharp threads which will cut the rod inside it causing failure. Why use nuts not a rounded retainer :-/ these gates flap about constantly so need a decent bearing/bush

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Funny that you should mention them, as despite the protestations of many, it was realised that they were perfectly safe once a set landed in the UK and you could see how they worked - you must have missed Chip's climb down ? And the ten sets are still on cars (two of them on Time Attack cars), and in the 7-8 years of use (and having been transferred from car to car), not ONE single one has had an issue . However, as usual, don't let the facts get in the way of your dig .

And FYI, I didn't produce them, a very clever American did that, I just sold them.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Can you please clarify your reason behind this?

I have been running big wing sumps with nothing more than the standard baffle arrangement in it since 1997 and have never had any oil starvation issues? Admittedly my car is a road car, and I have never used full slicks (the stickiest has been Khumo V70As), but it gets given death around track days.

The big wing sumps SHOULD retain the original sump walls with a few holes drilled into them, which act as a baffle anyway?



Dry sumps are all well and good, but you have to know what you're doing when fitting one, as they have to run restrictors to get the correct flow to the differing parts of the engine and EVERYTHING relies on that one £10 belt, which frightens the life out of me, along with the worry of the potential damage with a visit to a gravel trap and a stone causing it to throw the belt .

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

nothing wrong with that sump mike apart from the lower row of holes look a little low
No chance of the gates falling off lol
it's the ones people have made with the sides either cut out or have drilled massive holes in like moonstones steves which we shall be binning

stevieturbo

I dont get it.

How on earth can something that size make it's way through the oil strainer and up the pickup pipe ?

Is there even a strainer fitted ?

Mike1

The whole thing has become baffling

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

Yes the strainer was fitted and was in perfect working order I will post pictures later

stevieturbo

is it a strainer or a wire fence ?

Ive never seen a strainer with mesh so coarse that something as big as that pin could ever fit through.

flannigan

iTrader: (1)

A bit of both really on the end of the pickup is a wire mesh strainer that the pin has worn / broken its way through and there is a hole in it now

foreigneRS

pay peanuts, get monkeys

Mike1

Tony, why do you think the lower row of holes look too low? Is it because the oil can flow straight through into the wings under lateral load without having to climb a lip?

DAN-Saff

Probably turbulance of oil passing under the strainer.

Ima Racing

iTrader: (1)

Fuck anything else please link the thread where Chimp backed down?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the rainbird has probbaly bloced chip until he has proof

or maybe he was searching for it all along before he made such a bold statement