SiZT

Only problems I've ever had were with the cooling set up, like a few others have said the only figures that matter are the delta's

Si B

iTrader: (59)

I had this problem when the RR operator in error had set the RPM scale up wrongly. To be fair he admitted the problem and ran the car again FOC (as you'd expect)



So this is the old chart and new chart overlaid. Blue graphs are correct, red are the same car, but with the RPM wrong - huge difference, which some people may not have noticed.

Their 362 lb ft car is suddenly a 280 lb ft car, and they're online slagging off their tuners / their cars / their rollers etc etc , all from an operator error.

GaryEvo

si,and still they must have air probe in a cup of luke warm coffee!

rod,we gave up trying to run ross's 1000bhp with nos on our dyno,we went and used a hub dyno as tyre slip was a night mare,

brad

PTS in luton

They did over 20 full power runs one afternoon in my 2wd saff after the engine build (many moons ago)

They couldnt get any traction even when they had 4 straps holding it down, 3 fat cunts in the boot and sprayed the tyres and rollers with B&Q's finest spray glue!!

I ended up with a half arsed run showing just under 400bhp and AFTER all that they then took it out and live mapped it.

I was presented with a bill for Ł900 for a set of greys , lambda sensor and the arse about face set up .

Si B

iTrader: (59)

Ah yes, was a tropical day in Dorset

Oranoco

PTS with my old 2i, took it for a stutter, got bill for 800 for dyno time and fuel pump. Still had fault which turned out to be dirty contacts on ECU, a free repair

lmosleycosworth chevette

That's cos most people READ what other says they get and expect the same. Its not how much bhp it shows on rollers its how it drives. rollers can read high or low depending on the situation

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

theres nothing wrong with dyno's there a great controlled enviroment coupled with a couple road tests !! its the organic sack of shite involvement that makes them bad

RS331

Took my second RS project for a Tune up (given as a birthday present for my brother) tuner looked it over asked what it was he wanted done, i told him set it to 12 PSI as i want it to last !, the engine put into it was built by a number of engine builders including volcan engineering etc. Wossner pistons, steel rods, low compression, ported, polished gas flowed stage 3 head, machined block and was previously on P8 management running 20 PSI on EFi and was engine dyno'd at 270 BHP, i told him that the management was standard on this RS, no chips no upgrades, we put the MFi into effect instead and said go for it.

Car went on and made 170 BHP on standard management cant remember the torque id have to dig it up. was really happy with that as it was very tidy power for a standard set up given the Christian Majors copy engine build and the stage 2 Hybrid T3 from turbo Technics.

I took my Escort to the same place after a fresh rebuild to competition standards and engine dyno'd at 300 bhp with 331 lb/ft with 30 PSI of savage boost on a stage 3 Hybrid from turbo technics among a list other performance competition parts, i said i was wondering what it would do on the rollers, the guy just laughed when i told him the boost and said it will jump out and fly into the wall with that power, so with that i left it lol.

Nothing bad happened so far really, no bad experiences, im not bothered about running my Escort on the rollers though seeing as i got a proper true power reading from the Engine dyno so happy on both sides.

another time a mate of mine was going on the rollers and a day before he was going on he popped round my house and said i got a strange knocking sound from my engine, so i got me shoes on and had a listen on tick over, sounded like tappets and just didnt sound healthy, i said to him DO NOT TAKE IT OVER 2,500 REVS because it will blow up, get it home asap, check theres oil in it and get a mechanic to look at it, he said yah ok mate, anyway the day he was supposed to be on the rolling road i gave him a call and said did you get the engine sorted, he said no i was driving to the tuner and a piston came out from the bonnet followed by a ploom of black and grey smoke, i said what the fuck you just didnt listen to me at all what were you doing when it blew up, he said he was flooring it, i said YOU FUCKING IDIOT LOL, cant help some people can ya

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

The piston came through the bonnet?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Perfect example of what I have said a few times on there that getting the roller sync wrong has no significant effect on power output and only on torque.

Amazing how many people dont realise that is the case.

RS331

lol yah it was a renault 5 GT Turbo built for track, looked like it had been battered a few times with no maintenance, he blew the head off and said he saw the piston fly over the car lol !!!!

i was like, well i did tell ya mate, i didnt sound healthy at all but he just chose to drive it hard anyway.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Took out the pig flying above it just like a stinger missile!

RS331

that it did lol, its just what he told me happened thats all !

paul-h

Hi There MO

morto

No complaints from me been to The Racing Line 3 times and had a fantastic day .. loved it when Matt told me my self build engine from the crank up evo 6 engine was ..absolutely Spot On!! just after cumin off the rollers!!!

http://www.trldevelopments.co.uk/about_us.php

If you have a Evo then Matt is the king of the 4G63T

Andy

RS331

If this is aimed at me allow me to enlighten you with this numbered information as its possible you may have been away.

1.It has been forthwith confirmed that i am in fact not MO

2.Have posted Videos on my car/cars to please other people in the past calling me MO just to get that cleared up.

3.Apparently MO couldn't spell to save his life let alone string a sentence together with the appropriate grammar, going off other posts in the Forums !

4.I personally have got to the point now where as if anyone suspects im MO im now likely to completely ignore it as it really doesn't bother me.

Just thought id let you know in case you mention it again in a thread or reply of mine in which case goes either way for me as above.

Cheers lol - Hint of sarcasm as intended

RS331

Piston coming out of an engine LMFAO
Not a car but the concept is the same !

mgtkr1

had a cambelt snap, flip the bonnet up and lasoo a MO torcyclist.

rs331, your car sounds impressive and i beleive your not mo. the conrod propelled rocket sounds MO'ish though. only been to a RR twice, purely for setup and despite thinking one of the lads was a bit of a dipstick, havent really much to moan about. nickscunny used the same place recently and was equally unimpressed with work/cost ratio.

RS331

lol like i said my mate who blew it up told me thats what happened, i wasnt there to see it happen, it is simply what he told me, he blew it up before he got to the RR, if it sounds MO'ish then so be it, im only relaying what i was told surrounding a trip to the RR by an ol mate of mine.

thanks for believing im not MO

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

your definately not mo you can spell for a start

paul-h

Sorry but you just seem like MO's cousin or something, just pretty similar in the way things are worded. All good mate, although im not sure of piston coming through bonnet haha.

CrOwSoN15

Proper lol'd at this

Benni

Went on a Rolling Road in my Focus years ago to make up the numbers for the forum I was on... Everyone with the same 1.6 engine as mine were telling me I needed this and I needed that to help me get more power. One person had an air filter, manifold, Bluefin, and a few other things I can't remember. His was the second best 1.6 and mine made 5bhp more than him and 20 ft/lb more torque . I wasn't too fussed, but he didn't seem happy and paid for another run which was no better.

The operator asked me if I had driven it hard from new, which I had and told me this is why mine was such a strong engine. Don't know if this is true, but it annoyed about 5 people. By the way, mine made not much more than standard power, so all their modifications weren't doing much I suspect.


Benni

costina

iTrader: (1)

Never really had any probs with dyno's all cars i've done had good power even mine with over 100k on the clock.

BUT if its a rolling road day and theres another car i've done there its ALWAYS makes more power than mine. Typical eh.......

Paul

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Whilst I totally understand what your saying, I wouldn't always agree with this as often the dyno is an a totally unsuitable environment that even a good operator cant get repeatable results from.

Daviet

In that case the operator should say that and not let folk go away thinking everything was ok and charge them money?

And why would anyone install a dyno in an unsuitable enviroment?

stevieturbo

Why do people buy dyno's when they havent the first notion about an engine, nevermind trying to tune one ?

yet it still happens.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Erm... 90% of them simply dont know mate.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

then even a good operator is a bad one too? as the dyno should be setup in such away it works efficently !! Stu whilst you get results and good ones at with how you do it a decent dyno climate controlled is better option than putting ur life at risk in a 25 year old car thats on its last legs

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

100% spot on imo, i am surprised msd havnt got a dyno cell before now tbh. theres no way could my supra be mapped on the road, not safely and properly mapped imo.

3i_gaz

Been to awesome Gti loads for power run days

Didn't I've the fact they don't log air fuel readings, don't check boost. Literally strap em down and go

Also torque figures seem a mile out too.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Lost me there mate?
What I am saying Is I have personally visited many dynos where the cell and intake temps go so high after just 2 runs that it is absolutely pointless printing a power graph. Also a great many dynos cannot load the tyres well enough at a sufficiently high ramp rate to simulate the correct turbocharger boost curve or even peak boost on many cars.

Fans are another one. how many places really have a fan or fans big enough to turn the dyno cell volume over enough times per minute to keep the whole car cool? For that matter, how many of them just have the fan in the same room as the car and don't use it to feed the cell with FRESH air from outside the cell, thus doing very little to keep intake temps down and cool the cell the car is operating in?

How many fans are rammed right up to the engine and do nothing to cool all the important parts of the drive train that are ONLY air cooled before they soak hundreds of BHP into them?
Gearboxes, transfer boxes, differentials, CV joints, wheel bearings, the Tyres? How many people have had a clutch fail on the dyno but its fine on the road? Heat is a killer of all these components and needs to be monitored adequately to ensure no cumulative damage is done.

Exhaust extraction - cars do not run well on exhaust fumes, and nor do operators, yet the amount of times I have seen dyno cells flooded with exhaust gas is shocking, absolutely shocking mate... you only need to wipe a finger over the window sill in there to see if it suffers from fumes, or pull the CO probe and hang it mid air directly after a 1min power run to read the rooms Co level to see instantly if your dyno run was done with contaminated air levels.


DD's Shootout mode is another great example. its fixed ramp rate is not always good enough to correctly spool the turbo on many cars and its very common you will see perhaps 25psi on the dyno, yet 32 psi peak on the road. So is that particular graph accurate for your car? No, but it does at least measure your car against everyone elses with the same fixed load, which was its intention. its a tricky one to design as if they went too high then low powered cars may not spool up at all, too low and high power turbo cars wont ever come on boost. its a compromise, but not one that many operators, and certainly very few owners, actually understand.

No arguments from me that Dyno's are excellent tools mate, none whatsoever, they are wicked and I have been trying to find a suitable unit in Blackpool to install one for many years.
I am just saying that many operators get poor results because their dyno and / or its operating environment are useless, but they don't really know any better.

I hope that clarifies further my statement.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

We just borrow one of two private ones quite locally if we need them badly mate. have done for many years.

stevieturbo

Why's that ? Regardless of where it is mapped, it would need to be finalised on the road or track to ensure it is running safely.
I always map mine on the road, never had any issues other than lack of traction lol

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

why, because theres little traction upto 100 mph, and a full pull in 5th is 170 mph. it would have tobe mapped using 4th and fifth gear which is 100 - 170 mph. i would never ask anybody or expect it to be done on the road, just checked afterwards, the gtr needed no adjustment on the road after dyno map though.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

To mate money, same reason anyone runs a bad business?

stevieturbo

Then do it at the track.

I'm not saying a dyno isnt worthwhile, clearly it can be a big help. But it is not essential.

You wont see many funny or top fuel cars mapped on a dyno. Or indeed many of the fastest drag cars, simply because the dyno wouldnt be able to cope.
So powerful engines dont have to be set up on a dyno

Chip

iTrader: (3)

With faster cars on the road its pretty hard to see which load site is doing what TBH, so I always like to use a dyno to help out with that side of it but then check it on the road after.

Im of the opinion you cant properly map a car fully without both road and dyno mapping.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

totally agree