Best way to max out a T4?
14-01-2012, 09:53 AM
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Best way to max out a T4?
Hey guys, will be starting a new engine build soon as have destroyed my 205block...
After some opinions on what would be the best way to optimise/get the most out of my old T4 snail?
Will be having a new 200 bottom end(a well seasoned block with 6 long studs) with virgin crank and bores etc etc.
My head is 26/25mm and have all other bits to support 500+bhp.
So what I was wondering is.... What cams and comp ratio would you run and how much boost can a T4 reliably handle?
(I also have a direct port nitrous kit and my ECU can be mapped for control of this as well
)
Please no T4 vs GT stuff here as I'd rather not splash out for external gate just yet
All opinions welcome!
After some opinions on what would be the best way to optimise/get the most out of my old T4 snail?
Will be having a new 200 bottom end(a well seasoned block with 6 long studs) with virgin crank and bores etc etc.
My head is 26/25mm and have all other bits to support 500+bhp.
So what I was wondering is.... What cams and comp ratio would you run and how much boost can a T4 reliably handle?
(I also have a direct port nitrous kit and my ECU can be mapped for control of this as well
)Please no T4 vs GT stuff here as I'd rather not splash out for external gate just yet
All opinions welcome!
14-01-2012, 10:35 AM
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Thanks Jimbo, exactly the kind of informed reply I was hoping for
Mat, I've heard of this as well! Must be uncontrollable!
Well, it would be for me anyhows..
Mat, I've heard of this as well! Must be uncontrollable!
Well, it would be for me anyhows..
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14-01-2012, 11:52 AM
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I'm well aware mate
It should be fun Chris!
I think the 3076 flows a bit more than a RS500T4 (although mine is tweeked a bit
)
Dude your car is going to be monstrous with that kind of boost! Have you had your rods peened or anything?
Interesting, I'm just wondering if it would compromise response a little compared to 8:1 or 7.8:1 etc. Thanks for the input
I think the 3076 flows a bit more than a RS500T4 (although mine is tweeked a bit
)Dude your car is going to be monstrous with that kind of boost! Have you had your rods peened or anything?
Interesting, I'm just wondering if it would compromise response a little compared to 8:1 or 7.8:1 etc. Thanks for the input
14-01-2012, 12:10 PM
#17
I think the 3076 flows a bit more than a RS500T4 (although mine is tweeked a bit
)Dude your car is going to be monstrous with that kind of boost! Have you had your rods peened or anything?
Interesting, I'm just wondering if it would compromise response a little compared to 8:1 or 7.8:1 etc. Thanks for the input
I never had the rods peened as i didn't think i would be entering that level of power but my complete internals were balanced and a few other things as i don't see it making much more than 500 if it gets there - time will tell
As for C/R - i'm no mapper and only pick up little bit's i read on here and i'm sure i read somewhere that higher comp requires more ignition in the map making things hotter - please if i'm wrong or have the wrong end of the stick correct me
14-01-2012, 06:41 PM
#19
Not sure the GT has the legs the T4 has. 2 cars off here M.A.D mapped had this blower and made 500 & 501 but i don't know what boost but both were running Autronic
I never had the rods peened as i didn't think i would be entering that level of power but my complete internals were balanced and a few other things as i don't see it making much more than 500 if it gets there - time will tell
As for C/R - i'm no mapper and only pick up little bit's i read on here and i'm sure i read somewhere that higher comp requires more ignition in the map making things hotter - please if i'm wrong or have the wrong end of the stick correct me
I never had the rods peened as i didn't think i would be entering that level of power but my complete internals were balanced and a few other things as i don't see it making much more than 500 if it gets there - time will tell
As for C/R - i'm no mapper and only pick up little bit's i read on here and i'm sure i read somewhere that higher comp requires more ignition in the map making things hotter - please if i'm wrong or have the wrong end of the stick correct me
From what I understand, it used to be the done thing, everyone dropped compression which meant driveabilty suffered, but nowadays perhaps it with advances in mapping since the early days, this thankfully is why it isn't done on your averege spec car now?
Martin
14-01-2012, 06:57 PM
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Not sure the GT has the legs the T4 has. 2 cars off here M.A.D mapped had this blower and made 500 & 501 but i don't know what boost but both were running Autronic
I never had the rods peened as i didn't think i would be entering that level of power but my complete internals were balanced and a few other things as i don't see it making much more than 500 if it gets there - time will tell
As for C/R - i'm no mapper and only pick up little bit's i read on here and i'm sure i read somewhere that higher comp requires more ignition in the map making things hotter - please if i'm wrong or have the wrong end of the stick correct me
I never had the rods peened as i didn't think i would be entering that level of power but my complete internals were balanced and a few other things as i don't see it making much more than 500 if it gets there - time will tell
As for C/R - i'm no mapper and only pick up little bit's i read on here and i'm sure i read somewhere that higher comp requires more ignition in the map making things hotter - please if i'm wrong or have the wrong end of the stick correct me
Its a long story.. Basically I finished putting the new setup together, we took it to the rollers for mapping in october and had all sorts of teething trouble.. (I'd bought a second hand coilpack and it started to miss badly as soon as it got hot) we were half way through mapping and posted some half decent(ish) figures:
(please excuse shitty phone pics.)
Then just as we were putting some ignition in the map the billet fuel rail spat an injector out and fuel vapour everywhere! Luckily no flames but a very close call!
Here she is outside the rolling road...
Bay
Needs a clean in this pic!)
Back to the story...
Roll on a few weeks and we spaced out the injectors with some washers and I bought a new coilpack for her.. We went out to do some more mapping on the road and to check all was good before returning to the rollers. The car was fooking flying! (She's got a 3.9 diff now as well)
The next day I get a call from my mate Jez who does the mapping to say that there is a massive pool of coolant under the car in his workshop.. He put the car on the ramp to see where it was coming from to find the block properly cracked down the side
Hence new bottom end needed!
Some other pics you may have seen...
(Front end raised up to get her on the lorry
)
Back when the wheels were anthracite:
There you go mate, I will do that resto thread soon so you can see what Ive been up to.. Probably when the new engine starts coming together
She's changed in a few places since you had her.. Spot the difference?
Can only apologise for stripping her out btw...
Hope you are keeping well mate
14-01-2012, 07:05 PM
#21
The compressor maps for a t4 and a gt3076 show that the g3076 should make much more power than the t4, it flows something like 6lb of air more on the compressor map.
But, due to the exhaust wheel they will make pretty well identical power to a t4 at the same boost, maybe 5-10 bhp more.
The exhaust wheel of a t4 is big, hence being slightly more laggy, where a gt30 has too small a ex wheel for the compressor wheel but gives good response.
Mat, I've no idea why any body would want to run that boost on a t4, rediculous IMO
Gareth, I wouldn't advise that comp ratio but have driven one at 7.2 and the word for it is raw, very un progressive, awesome feeling but in the real world not good
But, due to the exhaust wheel they will make pretty well identical power to a t4 at the same boost, maybe 5-10 bhp more.
The exhaust wheel of a t4 is big, hence being slightly more laggy, where a gt30 has too small a ex wheel for the compressor wheel but gives good response.
Mat, I've no idea why any body would want to run that boost on a t4, rediculous IMO
Gareth, I wouldn't advise that comp ratio but have driven one at 7.2 and the word for it is raw, very un progressive, awesome feeling but in the real world not good
14-01-2012, 07:11 PM
#22
Contrary to above I always thought the opposite, I would think lower compression would allow you to add more ignition not less as you stand less chance of det, just like you this is what I have picked up, it would be good if someone who knows could confirm out of interest?
From what I understand, it used to be the done thing, everyone dropped compression which meant driveabilty suffered, but nowadays perhaps it with advances in mapping since the early days, this thankfully is why it isn't done on your averege spec car now?
Martin
From what I understand, it used to be the done thing, everyone dropped compression which meant driveabilty suffered, but nowadays perhaps it with advances in mapping since the early days, this thankfully is why it isn't done on your averege spec car now?
Martin
14-01-2012, 07:14 PM
#23
It Wasnt Me!
I've never known to feel a difference on a low comp car vs std comp...Euan's old 550bhp, his was 6.2:1 and he swore it drove as well as it did off boost as it did when it was standard
Same as the old "oh huge intercoolers an it'll be laggy/unresponsive"
I never noticed any difference whatesoever when I doubled the size of my apexi intercooler on my 200sx...
Think people jus mump their gums for the sake of it half the time when 9 times out of 10 they've never tested their theory's!
Same as the old "oh huge intercoolers an it'll be laggy/unresponsive"
I never noticed any difference whatesoever when I doubled the size of my apexi intercooler on my 200sx...
Think people jus mump their gums for the sake of it half the time when 9 times out of 10 they've never tested their theory's!
14-01-2012, 07:29 PM
#24
Professional Waffler
What advance in mapping? People think the tuning world has moved on so much, but it really hasn't.
14-01-2012, 07:41 PM
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14-01-2012, 10:01 PM
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Surely it would have gone by now if it was gonna mate?
Gonna have the whole lot balanced, block long studded.. Probably gonna get the rods shot peened and I'm tempted to get some wrc style oil jets if the machining for it isn't too expensive. Then obviously swap the Ab07 out for the new cams. Possibly plumb in the nitrous as well
Gonna have the whole lot balanced, block long studded.. Probably gonna get the rods shot peened and I'm tempted to get some wrc style oil jets if the machining for it isn't too expensive. Then obviously swap the Ab07 out for the new cams. Possibly plumb in the nitrous as well
14-01-2012, 10:03 PM
#34
Mine is running a t4, 15 inlet, 14 exhaust, 7.2cr, 8 greens etc, bearing in mind that it is purely a road car, would I benefit from changing to a 16 inlet or would it be a backwards step as far as response goes? Also, what gains in bhp/torque would I expect to see?
Karl
Karl
Last edited by Karl 3dr; 14-01-2012 at 10:32 PM.
14-01-2012, 10:12 PM
#36
It's funny you should say that because its a turbosystems engine originally (kev sharps old engine) so I assume Tony specced it originally? I assume it was specced for driveability with good power as apposed to ultimate power, it drives really nice even off boost.
Karl
Karl
Last edited by Karl 3dr; 14-01-2012 at 10:32 PM.
15-01-2012, 07:22 AM
#38
Surely it would have gone by now if it was gonna mate?
Gonna have the whole lot balanced, block long studded.. Probably gonna get the rods shot peened and I'm tempted to get some wrc style oil jets if the machining for it isn't too expensive. Then obviously swap the Ab07 out for the new cams. Possibly plumb in the nitrous as well
Gonna have the whole lot balanced, block long studded.. Probably gonna get the rods shot peened and I'm tempted to get some wrc style oil jets if the machining for it isn't too expensive. Then obviously swap the Ab07 out for the new cams. Possibly plumb in the nitrous as well
