Had a fairly eventful last 24 hours or so car wise
08-06-2011, 10:07 PM
#1
Had a fairly eventful last 24 hours or so car wise
Well I took the nova out last night for some more mapping on the Saab B204 engine, I'd noticed when I first fired it up that it was breathing a bit heavy, so wasnt mega hopefull but figured it was worth a crack seeing what it did as I have a couple of spare ones anyway.
0.6 bar was fairly predictably unexciting, not really much better than the XE felt (150bhp)
1.2 bar started to feel pretty lively, like the first LET engine that made high 200s
1.5 bar felt somewhere between the first LET and the Big Spec LET on low boost
2.1 bar felt genuinely quick, on a par with the Big Spec LET on low boost (which was 457)
This morning I took it out for a decent drive of it as last night I was so busy mapping it I didnt really get a chance to actually drive it.
I went out and really gave it death up the (private) road, sideways out of junctions lighting the tyres up bouncing off the limiter, hammering it up and down the rev range etc, just generally abusing the hell out of it and being childish and thoroughly enjoying having my car back at the right sort of power to really be good fun.
Then this happened
Doh!
Not sure yet what has happened, parked it up and went upto Mtech to meet a couple of mates and mapped a 1.6 16v Fiesta to 171bhp N/A
and did a decent high boost basemap on a gt30 C20LET Corsa to make use of the rolling road time we had booked where I had intended to also run my nova.
Am away for most of the next month so will pull it apart in July hopefully and do a bit of a post mortem on it.
Overall though im really pleased, this engine was only ever meant to be a temporary one for me to mock up mounts with and get a feel for if it was worth using the B204 motor etc, and from how it was going before the smoke arrived (and afterwards actually, still went like hell when me and Mike took it up the road even when it was smoking) Im sure its the right choice of power plant for my car.
Eventful day!
At least 2 out of 3 of the cars we were meant to be sorting today ended up working well!
0.6 bar was fairly predictably unexciting, not really much better than the XE felt (150bhp)
1.2 bar started to feel pretty lively, like the first LET engine that made high 200s
1.5 bar felt somewhere between the first LET and the Big Spec LET on low boost
2.1 bar felt genuinely quick, on a par with the Big Spec LET on low boost (which was 457)
This morning I took it out for a decent drive of it as last night I was so busy mapping it I didnt really get a chance to actually drive it.
I went out and really gave it death up the (private) road, sideways out of junctions lighting the tyres up bouncing off the limiter, hammering it up and down the rev range etc, just generally abusing the hell out of it and being childish and thoroughly enjoying having my car back at the right sort of power to really be good fun.
Then this happened
Doh!
Not sure yet what has happened, parked it up and went upto Mtech to meet a couple of mates and mapped a 1.6 16v Fiesta to 171bhp N/A
and did a decent high boost basemap on a gt30 C20LET Corsa to make use of the rolling road time we had booked where I had intended to also run my nova.Am away for most of the next month so will pull it apart in July hopefully and do a bit of a post mortem on it.
Overall though im really pleased, this engine was only ever meant to be a temporary one for me to mock up mounts with and get a feel for if it was worth using the B204 motor etc, and from how it was going before the smoke arrived (and afterwards actually, still went like hell when me and Mike took it up the road even when it was smoking) Im sure its the right choice of power plant for my car.
Eventful day!
At least 2 out of 3 of the cars we were meant to be sorting today ended up working well!
08-06-2011, 10:10 PM
#2
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
is that the saab 9000 engine chip? if so i can put you in the direction of someone i know who is building possibly the uk, if not the worlds most powerfull 9k, may be able to bounce ideas!
08-06-2011, 10:14 PM
#5
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Bad times mate! sorry i didnt get to meet you the other day 
hoping we will have time to catch up at some point, as i have had nothing but electrical gremlins lately, will explain when i see you, cheers Statey
hoping we will have time to catch up at some point, as i have had nothing but electrical gremlins lately, will explain when i see you, cheers Statey
08-06-2011, 10:15 PM
#6
I paid 200 quid for the engine/ecu/gearbox/loom
What can possibly be serious? I've had more expensive stone chips or punctures
LOL
Its literally disposable, couldnt care less mate, was just playing with it as it was already in the bay as I was using it for mocking up mounts and getting the car up and running on a saab conversion, never inteded to leave it in there long term anyway mate.
P.s
Plus me and Mike got to have a right laugh with it first, I'd forgotten how much fun driving like a total wanker is
What can possibly be serious? I've had more expensive stone chips or punctures
LOLIts literally disposable, couldnt care less mate, was just playing with it as it was already in the bay as I was using it for mocking up mounts and getting the car up and running on a saab conversion, never inteded to leave it in there long term anyway mate.
P.s
Plus me and Mike got to have a right laugh with it first, I'd forgotten how much fun driving like a total wanker is
Last edited by Chip; 08-06-2011 at 10:16 PM.
08-06-2011, 10:19 PM
#7
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
im not sure if he goes by that name, i think he is keeping it off the forums until done, he's my best mates brother ( best mate also has a saab 9k running big power) if you ever want to know anything let me know and il put you in touch
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08-06-2011, 10:21 PM
#8
TBH I think I probably know enough about the Saab lumps now for the pretty modest power outputs im looking to run (400-500) so I think its just a case of a rebuild with a couple of minor mods im already aware of and i'll be there, but if I do get stuck with anything then I'll drop you a line.
09-06-2011, 02:40 PM
#11
Lol, i would say i was sorry for you Chip but like you said, Ł200 was cheap fun.
To your above post, it depends which type of knock sensor the lump uses, if its a flat response type then it stands a chance, if its a resonant type then nope. The below link has a knock calculator which gives an estimate of frequency (which is bore diameter dependant like chip said)
http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx
How long will it take you to get the lump in and out chip? can't be fun with it in the back?
Rob,
To your above post, it depends which type of knock sensor the lump uses, if its a flat response type then it stands a chance, if its a resonant type then nope. The below link has a knock calculator which gives an estimate of frequency (which is bore diameter dependant like chip said)
http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx
How long will it take you to get the lump in and out chip? can't be fun with it in the back?
Rob,
09-06-2011, 03:17 PM
#12
It doesnt use that sort of knock sensing Rob, its done via the spark plugs instead, it also uses the spark plugs as the cam phase sensor too.
Although in the case of my car it has a normal knock sensor too which I use for the Phormula KS4 that the nova runs as a knock monitor.
Getting it out isnt too bad TBH these days mate, as each time Ive changed the backend setup Ive always done so with maintainance in mind, what I have done is made it so that the engine and box mount entirely to the car (other than one subframe mounted extra steady on the gearbox) so the subframe and suspension comes off very easily (takes me and the mrs about half an hour or so to get apart) the manifolds then come off which removes the turbo and pipework etc and then once that done out its just a case of undoing the mounts on the engine and dropping it to the floor complete with the box, then lift the car up in the air and take the engine and box out sideways through the wheelarch.
The chargecooler, turbo water system, header tank etc all stay in the car.
Probably about 2-3 hours or so in total I guess to get it out, and maybe twice that long to put it back, so I am feeling in the mood its possible to do in a day if I had to.
Although in the case of my car it has a normal knock sensor too which I use for the Phormula KS4 that the nova runs as a knock monitor.
Getting it out isnt too bad TBH these days mate, as each time Ive changed the backend setup Ive always done so with maintainance in mind, what I have done is made it so that the engine and box mount entirely to the car (other than one subframe mounted extra steady on the gearbox) so the subframe and suspension comes off very easily (takes me and the mrs about half an hour or so to get apart) the manifolds then come off which removes the turbo and pipework etc and then once that done out its just a case of undoing the mounts on the engine and dropping it to the floor complete with the box, then lift the car up in the air and take the engine and box out sideways through the wheelarch.
The chargecooler, turbo water system, header tank etc all stay in the car.
Probably about 2-3 hours or so in total I guess to get it out, and maybe twice that long to put it back, so I am feeling in the mood its possible to do in a day if I had to.
Last edited by Chip; 09-06-2011 at 03:19 PM.
09-06-2011, 03:30 PM
#14
It doesnt use that sort of knock sensing Rob, its done via the spark plugs instead, it also uses the spark plugs as the cam phase sensor too.
Although in the case of my car it has a normal knock sensor too which I use for the Phormula KS4 that the nova runs as a knock monitor.
Getting it out isnt too bad TBH these days mate, as each time Ive changed the backend setup Ive always done so with maintainance in mind, what I have done is made it so that the engine and box mount entirely to the car (other than one subframe mounted extra steady on the gearbox) so the subframe and suspension comes off very easily (takes me and the mrs about half an hour or so to get apart) the manifolds then come off which removes the turbo and pipework etc and then once that done out its just a case of undoing the mounts on the engine and dropping it to the floor complete with the box, then lift the car up in the air and take the engine and box out sideways through the wheelarch.
The chargecooler, turbo water system, header tank etc all stay in the car.
Probably about 2-3 hours or so in total I guess to get it out, and maybe twice that long to put it back, so I am feeling in the mood its possible to do in a day if I had to.
Although in the case of my car it has a normal knock sensor too which I use for the Phormula KS4 that the nova runs as a knock monitor.
Getting it out isnt too bad TBH these days mate, as each time Ive changed the backend setup Ive always done so with maintainance in mind, what I have done is made it so that the engine and box mount entirely to the car (other than one subframe mounted extra steady on the gearbox) so the subframe and suspension comes off very easily (takes me and the mrs about half an hour or so to get apart) the manifolds then come off which removes the turbo and pipework etc and then once that done out its just a case of undoing the mounts on the engine and dropping it to the floor complete with the box, then lift the car up in the air and take the engine and box out sideways through the wheelarch.
The chargecooler, turbo water system, header tank etc all stay in the car.
Probably about 2-3 hours or so in total I guess to get it out, and maybe twice that long to put it back, so I am feeling in the mood its possible to do in a day if I had to.
***Rob hobbles off to do some geek reading about trionic and those funny swedes***
and did i read that right,
(takes me and the mrs about half an hour or so to get apart)
Rob,
09-06-2011, 03:37 PM
#15
and did i read that right, It takes mine 30mins to put the roof down on her car lol
Yes mate, with my current lifestyle it doesnt make much sense for me to date anyone who isnt into cars
My current mrs loves doing trackdays and working on cars etc although isnt a great mechnic yet to be honest, I can quite happily leave her to do simple stuff like change a starter motor or rebuild a cylinder head and lap all the valves in, but wouldnt leave her on her own to do a bottom end engine rebuild or something like that and she cant map cars either (although knows enough about mapping to be useful in the car when I am mapping on the road, either to drive or to help with monitoring stuff on the laptop)
09-06-2011, 03:38 PM
#16
09-06-2011, 03:47 PM
#17
Its something about the inner sexist in me that hates talking to women about cars.... even the ones who know a lot! But you definitely get a gold star for that Chip.
Just done (some very brief) reading and your right, it is bloody interesting. Its really nice to see some alternative thinking from manufacturers (kind of like mazda and the miller cycle engine). I bet the 80v constant across the spark gap has confused a few mechanics lol
Rob,
Just done (some very brief) reading and your right, it is bloody interesting. Its really nice to see some alternative thinking from manufacturers (kind of like mazda and the miller cycle engine). I bet the 80v constant across the spark gap has confused a few mechanics lol
Rob,
10-06-2011, 06:08 AM
#18
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Chip, you and Karlos must have the only two women on the planet that will even venture into the garage, let alone get their hands dirty!
lol
11-06-2011, 12:20 PM
#23
Missed this thread before... great result!! From the perspective that you now know that with a few improvements, this engine will produce the goods and hold strong. 
Bit of a pisser that you only got a short while back in the driving seat though.
Cheers,
Grant
Bit of a pisser that you only got a short while back in the driving seat though.
Cheers,
Grant
12-06-2011, 11:13 PM
#24
Yes mate totally stock, and was breathing a bit when I put it in.
I only had it in there to mock up mounts and stuff really, but figured as it was there and working I may as well give it a shot and see what happened.
Got a couple of others knocking around so if its got anything major up with it then rather than rebuild this one I'll just pull one of them apart for a quick freshen up.
Busy the next few weeks but will hopefully have a bit of a play in July.
I only had it in there to mock up mounts and stuff really, but figured as it was there and working I may as well give it a shot and see what happened.
Got a couple of others knocking around so if its got anything major up with it then rather than rebuild this one I'll just pull one of them apart for a quick freshen up.
Busy the next few weeks but will hopefully have a bit of a play in July.
12-06-2011, 11:14 PM
#25
Ie that the engine spec is acceptable for what I want from it, even if on this occasion the engine condition wasnt.
All the hard work to actually do the conversion is done now and even have a reasonable base map now too.
13-06-2011, 06:56 AM
#26
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Yes mate totally stock, and was breathing a bit when I put it in.
I only had it in there to mock up mounts and stuff really, but figured as it was there and working I may as well give it a shot and see what happened.
Got a couple of others knocking around so if its got anything major up with it then rather than rebuild this one I'll just pull one of them apart for a quick freshen up.
Busy the next few weeks but will hopefully have a bit of a play in July.
I only had it in there to mock up mounts and stuff really, but figured as it was there and working I may as well give it a shot and see what happened.
Got a couple of others knocking around so if its got anything major up with it then rather than rebuild this one I'll just pull one of them apart for a quick freshen up.
Busy the next few weeks but will hopefully have a bit of a play in July.
thats a good news then ( being stock and pretty much a throwaway engine)
sweet, so should be a fairly quick turn around then
13-06-2011, 09:23 AM
#28
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13-06-2011, 03:29 PM
#30
Yeah hopefully, busy the next couple of weekends due to a friend of my bird's wedding, but in July I should be able to do a quick engine freshen up on one of the spare engines and then whack it in the hole and be back in business.
13-06-2011, 03:32 PM
#31
Standard pistons
Standard head
Cheap steel rods
Home made exhaust manifold (he is a very good fabricator)
Uprated inlet manifold
XE cams
Home made downpipe and exhaust
GT3076
Ebay intercooler
Standard radiator
83lb injectors IIRC
Manual boost controller
His next steps engine wise are to make a decent intercooler for it (ive told him to use a garrett core when he makes it) and to get a boost solenoid onto it so we can map the boost rather than have it on a manual controller.
He is properly struggling with traction at the moment due to the lack of decent boost control, it ran a 13.0 quarter at the weekend which was rubbish really for that much power, although the 123mph terminal shows promise.
Standard head
Cheap steel rods
Home made exhaust manifold (he is a very good fabricator)
Uprated inlet manifold
XE cams
Home made downpipe and exhaust
GT3076
Ebay intercooler
Standard radiator
83lb injectors IIRC
Manual boost controller
His next steps engine wise are to make a decent intercooler for it (ive told him to use a garrett core when he makes it) and to get a boost solenoid onto it so we can map the boost rather than have it on a manual controller.
He is properly struggling with traction at the moment due to the lack of decent boost control, it ran a 13.0 quarter at the weekend which was rubbish really for that much power, although the 123mph terminal shows promise.
13-06-2011, 03:39 PM
#33
Yes mate, thats the fella.
380bhp it made, more to come though when we put the boost a bit higher, but for now the last thing he needs is more power till the boost control is sorted, as in the first few gears it would be faster with LESS power not more
I think he'll be happy with anything over 400 really, its a bit of an all rounder rather than a drag car (still get leather interior at moment although will be going more trackday orientated soon)
380bhp it made, more to come though when we put the boost a bit higher, but for now the last thing he needs is more power till the boost control is sorted, as in the first few gears it would be faster with LESS power not more
I think he'll be happy with anything over 400 really, its a bit of an all rounder rather than a drag car (still get leather interior at moment although will be going more trackday orientated soon)
Last edited by Chip; 13-06-2011 at 03:41 PM.
13-06-2011, 03:52 PM
#35
Ah, Mr Milton, aka SteveBoySlim aka Mr "You earn it, i'll spend it"
You'll be skint for years now, steve has far too many nice bits available to him, you'll never be finished, lol
You'll be skint for years now, steve has far too many nice bits available to him, you'll never be finished, lol
Last edited by Chip; 13-06-2011 at 03:53 PM.
13-06-2011, 04:28 PM
#38
10K+ Poster!!
If you can afford it I'd go for a ported head, then Steve will sell you some Arrow lifters and Piper springs to finish it off
I didn't realise Adams head was standard, that might answer my question to why you were throwing so much boost down it but it wasn't really making the numbers, still mentally quick though.
I'm doing a LET for a mates Corsa, in time it will see a better turbo but nothing ridiculous as no matter what you do you cannot use all the power most of the time and this car in particular is highly unlikely to do anything but trackwork.
Spec for that is :
0.5mm Mahles
SBS rods and bolts
Polished crank
Mahle bearings
Zlet pump
Decked block
Ported head
Piper valve springs and retainers
XE Cams, standard lifters ( for now )
TD05 Evo 9 turbo
Dewis/Japspeed exhaust manifold
Nortech inlet manifold.
660cc Siemens
Link G4 ecu
Accusump
I would like to see as close, if not just over 370hp from that, sounds like a lot of spec for little power but slap a 3071 on there and its going to be a powerful engine and should still be half useable on circuit, I really do find the 3076 a bad choice for a fwd turbo for anymore than straight line stuff, just seems far too wild but then if your chasing numbers and want to fast thats understandably what you need, if not larger.
Bad luck on the Nova Chip, as you were saying at the weekend its hardly a costly failure, look forward to seeing the new build
I didn't realise Adams head was standard, that might answer my question to why you were throwing so much boost down it but it wasn't really making the numbers, still mentally quick though.
I'm doing a LET for a mates Corsa, in time it will see a better turbo but nothing ridiculous as no matter what you do you cannot use all the power most of the time and this car in particular is highly unlikely to do anything but trackwork.
Spec for that is :
0.5mm Mahles
SBS rods and bolts
Polished crank
Mahle bearings
Zlet pump
Decked block
Ported head
Piper valve springs and retainers
XE Cams, standard lifters ( for now )
TD05 Evo 9 turbo
Dewis/Japspeed exhaust manifold
Nortech inlet manifold.
660cc Siemens
Link G4 ecu
Accusump
I would like to see as close, if not just over 370hp from that, sounds like a lot of spec for little power but slap a 3071 on there and its going to be a powerful engine and should still be half useable on circuit, I really do find the 3076 a bad choice for a fwd turbo for anymore than straight line stuff, just seems far too wild but then if your chasing numbers and want to fast thats understandably what you need, if not larger.
Bad luck on the Nova Chip, as you were saying at the weekend its hardly a costly failure, look forward to seeing the new build
13-06-2011, 04:46 PM
#40
10K+ Poster!!
I know they need a lot of boost to make the numbers but considering how much of a restriction the stock heads are on a NA engine I would of thought there were good gains to be had from having one ported.