Had a fairly eventful last 24 hours or so car wise
13-06-2011, 04:49 PM
#41
Like this mate:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...2/DSC_0535.jpg
Just made some mounts up, made some water and oil pipes etc, and then got the manifold modified (was for a c20let)
I used saab shaft drivers side with a vauxhall outer cv, and vauxhall shaft the other side as per previous engine.
Not a huge amount to it really.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...2/DSC_0535.jpg
Just made some mounts up, made some water and oil pipes etc, and then got the manifold modified (was for a c20let)
I used saab shaft drivers side with a vauxhall outer cv, and vauxhall shaft the other side as per previous engine.
Not a huge amount to it really.
13-06-2011, 04:50 PM
#42
If I'm not mistaken Speckys original 505hp engine was a 3076 under 2 bar or bang on 2 bar which is 120hp gains for only .2bar over Adams engine.
I know they need a lot of boost to make the numbers but considering how much of a restriction the stock heads are on a NA engine I would of thought there were good gains to be had from having one ported.
I know they need a lot of boost to make the numbers but considering how much of a restriction the stock heads are on a NA engine I would of thought there were good gains to be had from having one ported.
I did him a nice safe map, and thats all he wanted at this stage.
Last edited by Chip; 13-06-2011 at 04:54 PM.
13-06-2011, 04:53 PM
#43
10K+ Poster!!
I tend not to compare different cars with different exhausts ran on different rollers quite as directly as that, but im sure Adams will not make 500bhp on 2 bar, it really doesnt feel like it has that in it, even if I mapped it less safely which TBH I have no interest in doing, if he wants to chase every last BHP like Specky was trying then he will need to go to a different mapper as Ive no interest in being involved in that (and all the continual failures it tends to make more likely to happen!)
Can't blame you for not wanting to take it to that power though, it will end in tears.
13-06-2011, 04:56 PM
#45
Edited my reply while you were quoting it jonboy, if Adam decides he wants to take risks its up to him, so me saying he'll need a different mapper is not accurate as I would still do it if that is what he wanted, but im not going to start taking those sort of risks on his behalf basically, and i would always advice against it unless its for a very specific application.
You have to remember that this is a road car that does big miles and also one that gets used hard on track, I see very little common ground with speckys, if it was just a quarter mile car that does the occasional 1km like his, then things would be different with what Adam wanted from it and how I would map it etc.
As I said before though, there is more to come from it, in fact we saw more on the day than we left with, I deliberately ran it richer than made best power and I deliberately took some timing out too, all in the interests of safety.
There would easily be another 30bhp in it without increasing the boost im sure if that is what Adam wanted.
Also it's only had about an hours mapping in total so far, its nowhere near finished, there is loads still to do to it but he wanted it safe to run at PV initially which is what he got and we'll do the rest when we get the time. I bet the fuel economy at the moment is shocking for example as I havent even started to try and optimise that yet.
Unfortunately when I went to do the first set of mapping on it he had brake issues, then the second time a radiator failure (his external wastegate damaged it when the engine rocked as it first made big boost for the first time) so it was literally just what we could get done in that one session on the rollers plus a little bit of initial road mapping that it was ran with.
Its very much a work in progress still for him, and likewise the map is still nowhere near finished yet either.
You have to remember that this is a road car that does big miles and also one that gets used hard on track, I see very little common ground with speckys, if it was just a quarter mile car that does the occasional 1km like his, then things would be different with what Adam wanted from it and how I would map it etc.
As I said before though, there is more to come from it, in fact we saw more on the day than we left with, I deliberately ran it richer than made best power and I deliberately took some timing out too, all in the interests of safety.
There would easily be another 30bhp in it without increasing the boost im sure if that is what Adam wanted.
Also it's only had about an hours mapping in total so far, its nowhere near finished, there is loads still to do to it but he wanted it safe to run at PV initially which is what he got and we'll do the rest when we get the time. I bet the fuel economy at the moment is shocking for example as I havent even started to try and optimise that yet.
Unfortunately when I went to do the first set of mapping on it he had brake issues, then the second time a radiator failure (his external wastegate damaged it when the engine rocked as it first made big boost for the first time) so it was literally just what we could get done in that one session on the rollers plus a little bit of initial road mapping that it was ran with.
Its very much a work in progress still for him, and likewise the map is still nowhere near finished yet either.
Last edited by Chip; 13-06-2011 at 05:05 PM.
13-06-2011, 05:02 PM
#47
10K+ Poster!!
Edited my reply while you were quoting it jonboy, if Adam decides he wants to take risks its up to him, so me saying he'll need a different mapper is not accurate as I would still do it if that is what he wanted, but im not going to start taking those sort of risks on his behalf basically, and i would always advice against it unless its for a very specific application.
You have to remember that this is a road car that does big miles and also one that gets used hard on track, I see very little common ground with speckys, if it was just a quarter mile car that does the occasional 1km like his, then things would be different with what Adam wanted from it and how I would map it etc.
You have to remember that this is a road car that does big miles and also one that gets used hard on track, I see very little common ground with speckys, if it was just a quarter mile car that does the occasional 1km like his, then things would be different with what Adam wanted from it and how I would map it etc.
I do understand what your saying though and if fairness wether you built it or not I still don't think you can guarantee anymore than your mapping when your using old cranks, pistons and bits like that, they can certainly handle it but for how long is anyones guess I wouldn't put my name on it lol
13-06-2011, 05:11 PM
#48
The thing is at the moment power is the LAST thing that Adam's car needs, he has lots of other things to do on it first, so this is little more than a basemap just to allow him to use the engine as he is developing the car (I even described it as that in my first post on the subject in fact!)
I do understand what your saying though and if fairness wether you built it or not I still don't think you can guarantee anymore than your mapping when your using old cranks, pistons and bits like that, they can certainly handle it but for how long is anyones guess I wouldn't put my name on it lol
Adam doesnt have anyone bankrolling him other than his wages, has no sponsors to need to win anything for and just wants a car that he can jump in and use without worrying about it too much.
It was mapped 5 days ago, and its done about 800 miles since then already!
13-06-2011, 05:19 PM
#49
Like this mate:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...2/DSC_0535.jpg
Just made some mounts up, made some water and oil pipes etc, and then got the manifold modified (was for a c20let)
I used saab shaft drivers side with a vauxhall outer cv, and vauxhall shaft the other side as per previous engine.
Not a huge amount to it really.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...2/DSC_0535.jpg
Just made some mounts up, made some water and oil pipes etc, and then got the manifold modified (was for a c20let)
I used saab shaft drivers side with a vauxhall outer cv, and vauxhall shaft the other side as per previous engine.
Not a huge amount to it really.
i am thinking of using a b204 or b234 for my project like you say there alot of engine for not alot of money
13-06-2011, 05:20 PM
#50
10K+ Poster!!
Im not sure he did once he had got past the 500bhp mark TBH, he only got that figure you are quoting relatively recently, but either way that car has done ONE trackday in the wet at silverstone and barely saw the throttle pressed, its just totally different to a car which is designed to be ran on track.
The thing is at the moment power is the LAST thing that Adam's car needs, he has lots of other things to do on it first, so this is little more than a basemap just to allow him to use the engine as he is developing the car (I even described it as that in my first post on the subject in fact!)
Indeed, there are lots of ways an engine can fail, but chasing every last bhp on the mapping isnt going to be one of them in this particular case like it no doubt has been a factor with Speckys last few failures.
Adam doesnt have anyone bankrolling him other than his wages, has no sponsors to need to win anything for and just wants a car that he can jump in and use without worrying about it too much.
It was mapped 5 days ago, and its done about 800 miles since then already!
The thing is at the moment power is the LAST thing that Adam's car needs, he has lots of other things to do on it first, so this is little more than a basemap just to allow him to use the engine as he is developing the car (I even described it as that in my first post on the subject in fact!)
Indeed, there are lots of ways an engine can fail, but chasing every last bhp on the mapping isnt going to be one of them in this particular case like it no doubt has been a factor with Speckys last few failures.
Adam doesnt have anyone bankrolling him other than his wages, has no sponsors to need to win anything for and just wants a car that he can jump in and use without worrying about it too much.
It was mapped 5 days ago, and its done about 800 miles since then already!
I think a lot of things are overlooked and a LOT of cars are running no where near the power they think it is which is where people get the wrong impression about owning a 400hp LET engine as most people think they have had that for ages and want to look for 500hp.
Will be good to see how Adams is with some good boost control as clearly its a right fooking handful at the minute
13-06-2011, 05:23 PM
#51
I think a lot of things are overlooked and a LOT of cars are running no where near the power they think it is which is where people get the wrong impression about owning a 400hp LET engine as most people think they have had that for ages and want to look for 500hp.
A genuine 380bhp in a FWD car really is already more than you need on track IMHO, thats more than the Xsport Seats have for example, and they lap quicker than hadland or rainbird!
Will be good to see how Adams is with some good boost control as clearly its a right fooking handful at the minute
13-06-2011, 05:24 PM
#52
If its FWD then just remember these things are properly heavy, like even worse than a YB probably, and that really doesnt lend itself well to corners if its hanging out the front of your car further forward than the axle line!
Its what I would pick if going FWD drag racing though!
13-06-2011, 05:36 PM
#53
what project?
If its FWD then just remember these things are properly heavy, like even worse than a YB probably, and that really doesnt lend itself well to corners if its hanging out the front of your car further forward than the axle line!
Its what I would pick if going FWD drag racing though!
If its FWD then just remember these things are properly heavy, like even worse than a YB probably, and that really doesnt lend itself well to corners if its hanging out the front of your car further forward than the axle line!
Its what I would pick if going FWD drag racing though!
how are they height wise are they a tall engine?
13-06-2011, 05:46 PM
#56
cant believe the whole lot costs Ł200, makes me wonder why i bother contemplating another cossie with big'ish power.
14-06-2011, 09:31 AM
#63
How long have they been in storage chip? Have you checked they are still there?
after a few months in a garage they normally look like this don't they?
Fun cars, friends on his third restoration in 6years lol trying to talk him into building a 1380 but he's not having it!
Rob,
after a few months in a garage they normally look like this don't they?
Fun cars, friends on his third restoration in 6years lol trying to talk him into building a 1380 but he's not having it!
Rob,
14-06-2011, 11:58 AM
#65
Ive got one with a vauxhall engine in it, dont have any pics of it though and its only half built anyway, and one other with a mini engine
Been in storage about 8 years, last looked at them a few months ago when I went to pay this years storage bill, and they were rustier than when I parked them but not by a ridiculous amount, its quite a dry indoor environent they are stored in (not much more than a barn basically but well ventlitated), I have now paid more in storage than they are worth now, but didnt know I would be working away from home for this long (I took a 3 month contract 8 years ago!)
Been in storage about 8 years, last looked at them a few months ago when I went to pay this years storage bill, and they were rustier than when I parked them but not by a ridiculous amount, its quite a dry indoor environent they are stored in (not much more than a barn basically but well ventlitated), I have now paid more in storage than they are worth now, but didnt know I would be working away from home for this long (I took a 3 month contract 8 years ago!)
Last edited by Chip; 14-06-2011 at 11:59 AM.
14-06-2011, 12:56 PM
#67
The engine was never intended to do much, thats why I had already bought a couple of others to build a decent one from.
If it had taken big boost for a while it would have been a bonus, but I never expected it would particuarly, so you are right mate, not bothered at all.
Unless RS standard for "replica something" mine isnt one
and you're a fine one to talk, lol
If it had taken big boost for a while it would have been a bonus, but I never expected it would particuarly, so you are right mate, not bothered at all.
Should spend some time nursing the Sierra you know. Neglect is an awful crime on an RS 
and you're a fine one to talk, lol
14-06-2011, 01:02 PM
#69
i have just completed the annual le mans trip in mine
Glad all your threats to break it havent happened!
25-06-2011, 06:51 PM
#74
Well me and Don from VauxSport popped out to my workshop today at my mate's place and the three of us yanked it apart.
Bit of a ballache to get apart due to the lack of clearance between the engine and chassis at the cam chain end with it in the back of my nova, but no massive drama.
Head gasket has gone between cylinder four fire ring and the oil gallery near by which appears to be the reason for the smoke, amazingly though the pistons look mint still and the bores aret lipped at all.
It's also bent an inlet valve on cylinder 1 so i guess 7500rpm was too much for the standard springs.
Head set and a set of Volvo valve springs (common upgrade for this engine) and a second hand valve look like being all I'm going to need.
Worth a go as the engine is in there anyway, nothing to really lose giving it a go
Bit of a ballache to get apart due to the lack of clearance between the engine and chassis at the cam chain end with it in the back of my nova, but no massive drama.
Head gasket has gone between cylinder four fire ring and the oil gallery near by which appears to be the reason for the smoke, amazingly though the pistons look mint still and the bores aret lipped at all.
It's also bent an inlet valve on cylinder 1 so i guess 7500rpm was too much for the standard springs.
Head set and a set of Volvo valve springs (common upgrade for this engine) and a second hand valve look like being all I'm going to need.
Worth a go as the engine is in there anyway, nothing to really lose giving it a go
25-06-2011, 07:46 PM
#76
Yeah, im surprised how good it looks inside for what I assumed was a high miler (got no history with this one)
Genuine saab head gasket set is 39 quid, and under 30 quid for aftermartket bolts.
oil/filter 40 ish
upgrade springs 80 quid genuine volvo
stem seals 30 quid aftermarket
So just over a couple of hundred quid all in, and a couple of afternoons.
So worth doing for now to gain some more experience with the engine, will build a proper one up at a later date though still.
Genuine saab head gasket set is 39 quid, and under 30 quid for aftermartket bolts.
oil/filter 40 ish
upgrade springs 80 quid genuine volvo
stem seals 30 quid aftermarket
So just over a couple of hundred quid all in, and a couple of afternoons.
So worth doing for now to gain some more experience with the engine, will build a proper one up at a later date though still.
25-06-2011, 09:31 PM
#78
Yeah man, was great fun, hard to believe any car can be as fast as that was on a 4 cylinder engine that only cost 200 quid
Still gobsmacked that it looks like the engine itself has actually survived fundamentally too!
I was really thinking there would be carnage like a fucked piston or similar, but its liteally just the 15 year old head gasket given in from over 2 bar of boost from a massive turbo and a bit of valve bounce which i'd be told to pretty much expect once over 7K rpm anyway, and its only 80 quid for an upgrade set new from volvo that fit straight in
Still gobsmacked that it looks like the engine itself has actually survived fundamentally too!
I was really thinking there would be carnage like a fucked piston or similar, but its liteally just the 15 year old head gasket given in from over 2 bar of boost from a massive turbo and a bit of valve bounce which i'd be told to pretty much expect once over 7K rpm anyway, and its only 80 quid for an upgrade set new from volvo that fit straight in