R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

I have coilovers on the rear on my saff and the 325i and the ride is solid in both of them - dont mind the bmw being rock hard as that is only a car that will be thrashed but the saff i drive everyday, and with passengers so dont want the ride to be as hard as it is.

To put it into context, i went from slough last night, to Steve1PD's in Harrow via Feltham and my car tripped the fuel cut off in the boot several times including once on the motorway

So im thinking of either :-

* refurbing the rear coilovers on the saff
* 2nd hand set of coilovers for front and rear
*2nd hand set of koni shocks and springs

I already have springs in the car so will use them.

Whats your opinions as my 3dr was on koni shocks and springs and the ride was lovely on that. So is just coilovers are too hard for road use or is that they usually come with higher poundage springs as standard?

alistairolsen

whether its coilovers or normal shocks and springs will make no odds at all as long as the wheel rate is the same and the damping rate is the same.

Sadly most coilover kits are far too hard and the dampers are awful unless youre prepared to spend big money.

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

I've Bilstein coilovers on my sapph, 300/90 front inserts and magnesium rear. Can't remember the spring ratings though

I'd compare the ride in mine to the likes of an M3, maybe a touch firmer. Its not tooth rattling, but its firm enough to make the car fun to drive. coilovers being too firm is a lot of nonsense - they are as hard or soft as you spec them to be

Edit to say, i know where you can get my setup new, but you are looking at around £2K for front bodies/ inserts/eibach springs/spring seats etc and the rear magnesium shocks with springs etc etc.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

my 3dr is spot on with gaz golds.... not the standard set up you get when you buy them tho...

ive been in alot of cossies ect with coilovers where the rears are noisey but mines spot on, and handles much better than koni's ect

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

the car is only running a 2.0 DOHC and not a YB so will not be driven too hard - i just want it nice and low and not rock hard like it is at the moment.

the only thing i like about coilovers is you can set the height easily

DAN-Saff

Are you sure you haven't gone "pimp daddy" low and it's sitting on the std bumpstops?

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

no bumpstops on the back as it has coilovers but one of them is fucked. Still also has the lowered springs in the rear in addition of the coilovers and only half bumpstop on one side as its fallen apart

The 325i is lower and the ride is not as bad as this.

DAN-Saff

The bumpstops are the metal cones that the springs sit over. If you put your finger through the hole where the spring sits in the trailing arm that will tell how much travel you have got before it goes solid.

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

cool - will have a look but judging by the recent driving in the car - it doesnt seem to have any movement in the rear suspension.

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Just put softer springs on the coilovers. What rate have you got on them now?

Charlie

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Sorry just seen this. You have coilovers with springs on them, and the springs in the beam? That'll be why it's so stiff. Remove the springs from the beam and let the coilovers do the work.

Charlie

Ginge !

coilovers use liner springs rather than progressive so will always feel harsh compared to dampers and springs, people who claim otherwise are talking crap or refering to crap coilovers as they are MENT to be harsh as they are designed for use on smooth roads unless rally dampers but again they are not gonna be any good for road use so stupid fitting them

i have VERY harsh HKS coilovers on my subaru,,,, they REALLY make you feel like your driving on square tyres but on track or a smooth road they just make the turn in feel like a playstation ( or Xbox for the other knobs) game,,,,,,,,, driving to work is crap though hence i use a clio

if coilovers didnt affect the ride height explain why only supercars/extreme performance cars have them as standard and the M5 and M3 and porsches use bilstein dampers and eibach springs from the factory ?

even Bilstein will tell you there B12 is for fast road use and B14/B16 is for track only or young people who dont mind the lack of comfort

Ginge !

E36 BMW have dampers and Liner springs with adjustable platforms on the springs/wishbone in the rear for some reason rather than coilover's all round not sure about the saph but it might be possible with cheeper coilovers to cut costs

Ginge !

putting softer springs will be pointless and may aswell have shocks and progressve springs

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

A coilover is just a damping unit and a spring, combined into a single unit. Same rate spring and same damping will feel the same as a Koni and spring.

If you have a stiff rear end just reduce the spring rate until it is softer.

Charlie

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Sorry, thought we were talking about a Sapph rear end?


Charlie

Ginge !

it wont as the springs affect the way they work, liner springs compress the same bit by bit wheres progressive are designed to be sloppy then get harder to bend the more they compress giving more comfort when driving round but still suspending the car, softer springs will mean the damping rates of the shocks would need sorting out to counter act it aswell as the travel of the spring taken into account

basically companies spend millions to make a balance to give to the customer,, you changing them will give to a worse actual package even though more comfort rather than the happy medium the shocks and springs will give

tabetha

Not all coilys are linear, totally depends on what springs you have on them, you can fit MORE than one spring, so could use a softer one, and a harder one on the same coily.
More to the point, rear coilys tend to be BOTH bump and rebound adjustable, whereas the fronts are usually only bump adjustable, the bump/rebound adjustment on the rear coilys is usually just a single combined adjuster, but make use of it to make them softer, by reducing bump setting.
Coilys have NOTHING to do with the harshness, save for the fact that they are mostly used on cars for track etc, naturally they tend to use harder springs to suit the track work, but can be made as hard or soft as you want, for example if you don't like the std AVO springs supplied with the coilys, they will do one change of springs for you FOC.
tabetha

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Back to the OP: Ran, your rear springs are too hard - if you have two sets, take one set out. If you only have one set take them out and replace them with softer springs.

Charlie

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

I will take the redundant springs out as they're seem to be making a clonking noise too The only problem i have is that the nearside coilover is leaking/or has leaked all its fluid so will be shit.

Im going to have a look at what make they are and possibly send them off for a refurb as they will always come in handy for the 3dr.

Will prob still end up getting some konis though as i want it smooth and low and not harsh.

fuck it - im driving the BMW tonight

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

If you can be bothered take the coilovers off, whip the springs off them and compress them by hand. If one feels much looser than the other then yes, go for a refurb. If they feel the same then don't worry about the leaking fluid and use them. For low, just wind it down all the way... that's what coilovers are for.

Charlie

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

I'm going to go ahead and disagree completely with what you've said. As i mentioned i've Bilsteins and they are by no means harsh. They use Group A inserts, so they are a rally shock. So by what you've said, Ford must not have used them on tarmac rally stages as they are shit for road use?

Like i said you can spec good coilovers whatever way you want, so you can actually spec them for Road use.

Unless you know more than some very well respected rally men, you are the one talking utter crap.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

go for coilovers, like avo monotubes with 350lb front springs, and 200lb rear springs.

funnily enough i have just that exact set for sale....

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Spot on for a fast road Sapph.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

wanna buy them?

Char1ie

iTrader: (6)

Me? Nah, I race on Gaz Golds.

Ebay them, you'll get a good price.


Charlie

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

im going to have a go at getting the Spax dampers off the 3dr (hopefully they will be in good condition) and will then put these on the saff and get the coilovers off for a refurb.

tabetha

I use AVO coilys, 300lb 9" front and 200lb 12" rear, though personally the rears are a tad too soft, I've added more bump/rebound to stiffen as a temp measure.
Just out of interest whilst my car has been off the road for about 8 months I've been driving about in mostly mondeo mk1 ghia, with std suspension, astra mk3, with billies/eibachs, today I set off in my cossie for mot, with it's coilys mentioned and was staggered just HOW COMFORTABLE IT WAS, seriously no lie it was perfect, no wonder I used to use it all the time, it's just so comfy, light years ahead of the mondeo/astra, the mondy is comfy but in a totally different league, and I was not on smooth roads either, but the exact same roads I used to drive the others cars on.
tabetha

jaiscossie

My new saff is on avo coilovers and when i first saw it advertised with those i didnt think i would like the ride as normally always gone for konis , however im really pleased with the ride , not bumpy at all so going to stick with coilovers maybe just get these refurbed or replace as there looking quite old