cossie fuel economy on siemens injectors.
20-04-2011, 08:16 PM
#42
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Think i learnt the hard way,the 3 hours in and out job.I had my car mapped on the rollers,all went fine.Recently i had my engine out and changed all the sensors belts etc...as a matter of coarse.(it was for a gearbox rebuild )When i started it up and went out again,it drove the same except on boost,it pulled like a train,but the afr was well in the red the engine was virtually cutting out
.So i,m guessing thats what happened with mine,it was mapped around a fault.out came that chip,and in when my msd closed loop chip.
.So i,m guessing thats what happened with mine,it was mapped around a fault.out came that chip,and in when my msd closed loop chip.
21-04-2011, 08:46 AM
#43
I would say 70% of cars I see that have been "Mapped" have been done so around a fault so the poor owner fixes his fault at a later date as you did and then ends up with a car that runs grim or melts down, that is normally when we are brought in as said owner is pulling his hair out as "It cant be the Chip, it was mapped live".
Also, it makes me smile how most of these people who propose to "Live Map" just do the power sites and leave the rest, giving you back a car that runs shit cold and has horrific fuel economy, but hey, it made good power yeah?
Also, these people seemingly cant see simple problems with boost versus injector duty cycle on a standard well setup system even though they have live analysis running on their laptop showing spark lead, boost, intake temp, coolant temp, injector phasing, injector duration and, on the P8, lambda correction that even SHOWS THEM how far out their map is from correct off boost, and they STILL get it wrong. They should be able to see just how damned wrong it is and abort the job in favour of looking for the fault, but they don't.. why? My theory is they simply don't understand the system well enough to do anything other than change numbers ina table, a bit like a 16yr old receptionist might do when using excel in her new workplace.
Originally Posted by Live mapper
More fuel? Hmm.. ah, ok, I guess that is like adding 10% to prices at my old job isn't it... so lets change that 200 in the table to 220. Brilliant! This mapping is easy. 
One famous car was mapped around an ACT sensor that wasn't connected properly as the pin had come loose in the 2 pin plug. So, the L8 defaulted to "Super rich" and they mapped all the fuel out and made it run well. It was a fast car. sadly, on the way down brunters that sensor made contact and the engine expired in spectacular fashion. even more sadly, the next engine did EXACTLY the same. When the car came to us, we data logged it and found the problem within 15 minutes and demonstrated it to him live. he was real mad... he may even come on here and make himself known, he has been a member since day 1.
Fact is, most "Live Mapping" is actually some tuner burning chips and popping them in then trying again, stopping, making some more changes then burning another Eprom, then trying again.
That doesn't show up faults as well as actually doing the job live... if your car is live mapped it will have gear like this hanging off it and the mapping will be done without switching the engine off at all!
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 21-04-2011 at 08:53 AM.
21-04-2011, 10:36 AM
#44
Advanced PassionFord User
I would say 70% of cars I see that have been "Mapped" have been done so around a fault so the poor owner fixes his fault at a later date as you did and then ends up with a car that runs grim or melts down, that is normally when we are brought in as said owner is pulling his hair out as "It cant be the Chip, it was mapped live".
Also, it makes me smile how most of these people who propose to "Live Map" just do the power sites and leave the rest, giving you back a car that runs shit cold and has horrific fuel economy, but hey, it made good power yeah?
Also, these people seemingly cant see simple problems with boost versus injector duty cycle on a standard well setup system even though they have live analysis running on their laptop showing spark lead, boost, intake temp, coolant temp, injector phasing, injector duration and, on the P8, lambda correction that even SHOWS THEM how far out their map is from correct off boost, and they STILL get it wrong. They should be able to see just how damned wrong it is and abort the job in favour of looking for the fault, but they don't.. why? My theory is they simply don't understand the system well enough to do anything other than change numbers ina table, a bit like a 16yr old receptionist might do when using excel in her new workplace.
Should it be 220 at that boost and engine spec? How would a receptionist know? LOL
One famous car was mapped around an ACT sensor that wasn't connected properly as the pin had come loose in the 2 pin plug. So, the L8 defaulted to "Super rich" and they mapped all the fuel out and made it run well. It was a fast car. sadly, on the way down brunters that sensor made contact and the engine expired in spectacular fashion. even more sadly, the next engine did EXACTLY the same. When the car came to us, we data logged it and found the problem within 15 minutes and demonstrated it to him live. he was real mad... he may even come on here and make himself known, he has been a member since day 1.
Fact is, most "Live Mapping" is actually some tuner burning chips and popping them in then trying again, stopping, making some more changes then burning another Eprom, then trying again.
That doesn't show up faults as well as actually doing the job live... if your car is live mapped it will have gear like this hanging off it and the mapping will be done without switching the engine off at all!
21-04-2011, 04:15 PM
#46
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(By MSD as it happens, by the previous owner) If the map is wrong, the fuelling will be crap whatever size injectors you are running, even down to the standard injectors. It is possible to have 500+Bhp, and 30Mpg in the cruise, off boost/cruise fuelling is just as, if not more important than full throttle fuelling.
Whats the point in having a car that goes really well on full chat, but pops and farts at low revs, won't idle properly, and washes the oil off the bores as it's so badly mapped in the range that it spends 95% of it's time?
Trust me, my old Saff was "mapped" by Engine (dis)advantages, it flew, but did about 12Mpg in the cruise, and when put on a CO machine, was running 9% 
I'm surprised it wasn't just pouring neat fuel out of the exhaust, but did explain why it used as much oil as it did fuel, and looked like an F15 in Full reheat at night.The point is, you are risking damaging your engine just as much with over-fuelling at normal engine speeds than you are from suffering a lean meltdown... Add to the fact that 15Mpg compared to 30Mpg will soon add up, along with the extra oil that you are washing away!
22-04-2011, 06:35 AM
#47
The point is, you are risking damaging your engine just as much with over-fuelling at normal engine speeds than you are from suffering a lean meltdown... Add to the fact that 15Mpg compared to 30Mpg will soon add up, along with the extra oil that you are washing away!
22-04-2011, 08:18 AM
#48
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You are completely missing the point! My saff runs 83Lb Siemens and still passes the MOT without a cat, as it has been PROPERLY live mapped (By MSD as it happens, by the previous owner)
If the map is wrong, the fuelling will be crap whatever size injectors you are running, even down to the standard injectors. It is possible to have 500+Bhp, and 30Mpg in the cruise, off boost/cruise fuelling is just as, if not more important than full throttle fuelling.
Whats the point in having a car that goes really well on full chat, but pops and farts at low revs, won't idle properly, and washes the oil off the bores as it's so badly mapped in the range that it spends 95% of it's time? Trust me, my old Saff was "mapped" by Engine (dis)advantages, it flew, but did about 12Mpg in the cruise, and when put on a CO machine, was running 9% I'm surprised it wasn't just pouring neat fuel out of the exhaust, but did explain why it used as much oil as it did fuel, and looked like an F15 in Full reheat at night.
The point is, you are risking damaging your engine just as much with over-fuelling at normal engine speeds than you are from suffering a lean meltdown... Add to the fact that 15Mpg compared to 30Mpg will soon add up, along with the extra oil that you are washing away!
(By MSD as it happens, by the previous owner) If the map is wrong, the fuelling will be crap whatever size injectors you are running, even down to the standard injectors. It is possible to have 500+Bhp, and 30Mpg in the cruise, off boost/cruise fuelling is just as, if not more important than full throttle fuelling.
Whats the point in having a car that goes really well on full chat, but pops and farts at low revs, won't idle properly, and washes the oil off the bores as it's so badly mapped in the range that it spends 95% of it's time?
Trust me, my old Saff was "mapped" by Engine (dis)advantages, it flew, but did about 12Mpg in the cruise, and when put on a CO machine, was running 9% I'm surprised it wasn't just pouring neat fuel out of the exhaust, but did explain why it used as much oil as it did fuel, and looked like an F15 in Full reheat at night.The point is, you are risking damaging your engine just as much with over-fuelling at normal engine speeds than you are from suffering a lean meltdown... Add to the fact that 15Mpg compared to 30Mpg will soon add up, along with the extra oil that you are washing away!
Well luckily mines not going to be and hasn't ever been mapped by an idiot
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