cossie fuel economy on siemens injectors.
18-04-2011, 04:46 PM
#1
cossie fuel economy on siemens injectors.
What can be achieved fuel economy wise on std comp stage 3 plus YB running at 380/380 on a t34.63 on a mildly flowed head with cams???
On greys i currently get between 10 - 13mpg around town depending if i drive sedately or boot it up to 30. on motorways at a steady 60 i get about 25mpg but increasing to 70-80 it drops to 20mpg.
What could you get going closed loop on the modern siemens injectors? Obviously youd need the right map but thats a given.
10mpg is a bit crippling given i only have a 30 litre tank
On greys i currently get between 10 - 13mpg around town depending if i drive sedately or boot it up to 30. on motorways at a steady 60 i get about 25mpg but increasing to 70-80 it drops to 20mpg.
What could you get going closed loop on the modern siemens injectors? Obviously youd need the right map but thats a given.
10mpg is a bit crippling given i only have a 30 litre tank
18-04-2011, 05:05 PM
#5
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just get it live mapped, my best cossie for mpg was my highest hp one as it was live mapped, all the rest were generic chip. after msd live map i could get 30 mpg on a pair of 14s aswell.
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18-04-2011, 10:27 PM
#11
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
What can be achieved fuel economy wise on std comp stage 3 plus YB running at 380/380 on a t34.63 on a mildly flowed head with cams???
On greys i currently get between 10 - 13mpg around town depending if i drive sedately or boot it up to 30. on motorways at a steady 60 i get about 25mpg but increasing to 70-80 it drops to 20mpg.
What could you get going closed loop on the modern siemens injectors? Obviously youd need the right map but thats a given.
10mpg is a bit crippling given i only have a 30 litre tank
On greys i currently get between 10 - 13mpg around town depending if i drive sedately or boot it up to 30. on motorways at a steady 60 i get about 25mpg but increasing to 70-80 it drops to 20mpg.
What could you get going closed loop on the modern siemens injectors? Obviously youd need the right map but thats a given.
10mpg is a bit crippling given i only have a 30 litre tank
18-04-2011, 10:43 PM
#12
Why wouldnt he be worried about fuel economy ? Fuel is bloody expensive, and 380bhp isnt exactly high powered.
Even if it had the ability to make 600bhp, I'd still expect 30mpg to be possible, and it should be very possible.
Even if it had the ability to make 600bhp, I'd still expect 30mpg to be possible, and it should be very possible.
19-04-2011, 07:37 AM
#16
You dont need to worry about closed loop Warren as you have a P8, you need to fix the problem whatever it is.
Check CTS and ATS first. Then look for fuel leaks. lambda triggering is a possible issue too, as is a dead P8.
Why would a car thats set up to use 8psi max, use less fuel when not on boost than another car also not on boost but set up to run 30psi max if neeeded mate?
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 19-04-2011 at 07:44 AM.
19-04-2011, 08:21 AM
#17
Pointless attitude and response.
If a modern turbocharged engine cannot return 25+ during normal driving with ease, something is seriously wrong. Maybe you think that's ok, but I certainly dont.
19-04-2011, 08:24 AM
#18
Indeed it is, 2 cars both going along the motorway off boost, should both be set up to fuel the same at that point, there is utterly no reason that it will be any different.
Oh, it appears that the sense wasnt as common as we thought, as you have none of it clearly.
your pussing more power then std so your obviously going to use more fuel.pointless thread sorry mate.
19-04-2011, 08:28 AM
#19
i'm running 750cc injectors but on a run at 70-80 i'm getting 30-32mpg out of it. i'm pretty sure that's actually better than when they were standard back in the 80's
19-04-2011, 10:28 AM
#20
20K+ Super Poster.
On GREYS,(or 403's) I got 40.8 MPG, going from near norwich to scarborough, a regular journey for me.
I used the A47, A17 etc right through lincoln town centre, maybe I was driving like a grandad ?, I took 3 3/4 hrs each way of 186 miles, my engine at the time had around 195,000 fully mot authenticated miles on original bores/bottom end.
I do not and will never use closed loop, my emissions were 0.97% co, and 137ppm, but it had been mapped correctly, a average on short runs around here were 26-28 at around 70-80, it was NOT adjusted for the mot, it wasn't needed.
My idle was 100% rock steady on greys/T3/34/ported head etc at 800rpm, indeed so good opposite lock didn't believe in town the engine hadn't stalled, and I had to rev it.
So just get it set up right.
tabetha
I used the A47, A17 etc right through lincoln town centre, maybe I was driving like a grandad ?, I took 3 3/4 hrs each way of 186 miles, my engine at the time had around 195,000 fully mot authenticated miles on original bores/bottom end.
I do not and will never use closed loop, my emissions were 0.97% co, and 137ppm, but it had been mapped correctly, a average on short runs around here were 26-28 at around 70-80, it was NOT adjusted for the mot, it wasn't needed.
My idle was 100% rock steady on greys/T3/34/ported head etc at 800rpm, indeed so good opposite lock didn't believe in town the engine hadn't stalled, and I had to rev it.
So just get it set up right.
tabetha
19-04-2011, 02:38 PM
#21
On GREYS,(or 403's) I got 40.8 MPG, going from near norwich to scarborough, a regular journey for me.
I used the A47, A17 etc right through lincoln town centre, maybe I was driving like a grandad ?, I took 3 3/4 hrs each way of 186 miles, my engine at the time had around 195,000 fully mot authenticated miles on original bores/bottom end.
I do not and will never use closed loop, my emissions were 0.97% co, and 137ppm, but it had been mapped correctly, a average on short runs around here were 26-28 at around 70-80, it was NOT adjusted for the mot, it wasn't needed.
My idle was 100% rock steady on greys/T3/34/ported head etc at 800rpm, indeed so good opposite lock didn't believe in town the engine hadn't stalled, and I had to rev it.
So just get it set up right.
tabetha
I used the A47, A17 etc right through lincoln town centre, maybe I was driving like a grandad ?, I took 3 3/4 hrs each way of 186 miles, my engine at the time had around 195,000 fully mot authenticated miles on original bores/bottom end.
I do not and will never use closed loop, my emissions were 0.97% co, and 137ppm, but it had been mapped correctly, a average on short runs around here were 26-28 at around 70-80, it was NOT adjusted for the mot, it wasn't needed.
My idle was 100% rock steady on greys/T3/34/ported head etc at 800rpm, indeed so good opposite lock didn't believe in town the engine hadn't stalled, and I had to rev it.
So just get it set up right.
tabetha
i can get 83lb cars through the idle cat co test with no cat on L8
add a sports cat and...
ignore the idle speed, this car was ticking over in the workshop, so i shoved the probe up it to grab a pic. and didnt connect the rpm signal.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 19-04-2011 at 03:04 PM.
19-04-2011, 10:24 PM
#23
in theory but i have no lambda sensor so its not running closed loop even if capable.
you really are a retard arent you??
Of course more power than standard means lower economy, but as proven by the replies in this thread my economy is lower than expected for similar spec engines. Youd have to be either rich or stupid to not care about economy at all these days.
Air temp sensor has been replaced (the brown one) as a few weeks after getting an engine monitor it was coming up out of spec and showing intermittant open circuit. Been fine since and was fine even when the car was remapped.
Whats the method of failure with coolant temp sensor? (blue one) Ive been told in the past it will run like shit or not stay running. My car starts ok and runs ok with the only problem being an occasional misfire at about 6k when i thrash it to the limiter, but the misfire went when plugs were changed.
I have a spare CTS sensor, is it worth swapping it just for the sake of it?? Know anyone who has super extendy gadget fingers to get to the back of the block??
its taken you this long to work that out??
Of course more power than standard means lower economy, but as proven by the replies in this thread my economy is lower than expected for similar spec engines. Youd have to be either rich or stupid to not care about economy at all these days.
Whats the method of failure with coolant temp sensor? (blue one) Ive been told in the past it will run like shit or not stay running. My car starts ok and runs ok with the only problem being an occasional misfire at about 6k when i thrash it to the limiter, but the misfire went when plugs were changed.
I have a spare CTS sensor, is it worth swapping it just for the sake of it?? Know anyone who has super extendy gadget fingers to get to the back of the block??
20-04-2011, 01:57 PM
#29
You cant guess what needs changing, or if the map needs work,
The only way from where you are now is to get some data streaming from the ecu and sensors to ensure they are operating correctly, then if all is well dive into the map.
good economy and drivability can be acheived on either greys 403s or 55s makes no odds really,
The only way from where you are now is to get some data streaming from the ecu and sensors to ensure they are operating correctly, then if all is well dive into the map.
good economy and drivability can be acheived on either greys 403s or 55s makes no odds really,
20-04-2011, 03:04 PM
#34
well i cant say yes or no to that, i dont know the procedure of whoever mapped it,
but to me yes, i always set up, check all sensor data, and pressure test the inlet before even the emulator is fitted, otherwise you can end up mapping around faults, which if cured or changed at a later date can cause real problems and often ends in tears,
So really any mapper should make sure they are 100% sure everything is operating correctly before the map is changed.
this is another reason why i dont belive the drive in drive out live maps in 3 hours are actually any good.
As an example, imagen a car is mapped with a faulty ACT, which is adding 10% to the fuel table, sure you can map out this extra fuel and make the car run fine, but if someone changes the ACT for one that works later, instantly the fuel table is 10% down on perfect, the result is a mess and melted engine components.
i guess it has alot to do with what equipment was used aswell, for checking sensor data, injector duty etc all under live conditions.
we can and do get cars in for mapping here that we simply will not map or even start to map unless fault A B C are cured first, you cannot do it any other way imo, the car has to be right first.
That said yours may just be a sensor fault since mapping, so it needs a bit of time diagnosing the issue. your mapper may have done a great job for all i know
but to me yes, i always set up, check all sensor data, and pressure test the inlet before even the emulator is fitted, otherwise you can end up mapping around faults, which if cured or changed at a later date can cause real problems and often ends in tears,
So really any mapper should make sure they are 100% sure everything is operating correctly before the map is changed.
this is another reason why i dont belive the drive in drive out live maps in 3 hours are actually any good.
As an example, imagen a car is mapped with a faulty ACT, which is adding 10% to the fuel table, sure you can map out this extra fuel and make the car run fine, but if someone changes the ACT for one that works later, instantly the fuel table is 10% down on perfect, the result is a mess and melted engine components.
i guess it has alot to do with what equipment was used aswell, for checking sensor data, injector duty etc all under live conditions.
we can and do get cars in for mapping here that we simply will not map or even start to map unless fault A B C are cured first, you cannot do it any other way imo, the car has to be right first.
That said yours may just be a sensor fault since mapping, so it needs a bit of time diagnosing the issue. your mapper may have done a great job for all i know
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 20-04-2011 at 03:13 PM.
20-04-2011, 03:15 PM
#36
I see quite a few bad P8 maps, they are not quite so easy to get right. Ive just finished mapping one live today as it happens!
have you reset the adaptive memory since changing those other sensors? maybe it has adapted to run around an old issue?
was the adaption reset before any mapping was done?
have you reset the adaptive memory since changing those other sensors? maybe it has adapted to run around an old issue?
was the adaption reset before any mapping was done?
20-04-2011, 03:49 PM
#40
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What makes me laugh is people complain £500 for a live map is expensive, then spend £300 on a bodge job, the rest in fuel that dosn't need to be there, then more again getting it done properly one it blows up/ causes damage/ runs like crap
I have learn massivly over the last few years, pay too cheap pay twice!