volcomstone411

I hear a lot of stuff about cossie managment and stuff, but surely omex is half the price and far more advanced??

comment...

rs-tuner

iTrader: (1)

Depends on what engine and who is mapping the system

volcomstone411

any...if i was building a 3 dr track car i'd put it on omex.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

ive got autronic on mine and its the bollocks

but the cosworth breakers in portsmouth has a full omex set up with everything for a good price


worth a look????

Chip

iTrader: (3)

autronic SM4 is my personal favourite

but asking "what is the best management" is like asking "what is the best car" TBH, everyone will have their own opinion.


Some of the motorsport Pectel and Life etc ecu's are fantastically well featured but if you arent used to mapping them (im not) can take ages to get results from compared to the more user friendly stuff like autronic / omex etc

volcomstone411

yea true, we all have our favourites i expect.

Cos i found out this week that a lot of the cossie managment sensors are the same as what are on an omex loom but like 3 times the price.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If you are planning to map it yourself, then cossie management isnt a great option.

TBH these days I wouldnt ever retrofit cossie management to another car, it makes sense leaving it on a cossie and just paying for a chip/map rather than go aftermarket but I see no sense in going to the expense and hassle of fitting it to other cars rather than aftermarket.

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

funnily enough im aiming for omex on my 3dr track car

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

just to point out Harrys on the wind up !!!!

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Let who ever is mapping it advise you ...is the best advice

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

.

charlie luciano

iTrader: (3)

What he said

VIPEC on my car and its a good bit of kit


Luciano

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

sm4 is what i have fitted and mapped by sheady and its brilliant

Icurus

Emerald on mine and it's never let me down, no dry joints or burnt out coil drivers etc

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Hmmm... A LOT of aftermarket ECUs are not a PATCH on Weber.
Including Omex.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Brilliant find. Which ones?

B13 JUS

iTrader: (24)

stu would you not swap a l8 ecu for a omex 710 ecu?

if you where to upgrade from a l8 what would you buy?

hicost

Life F88 for me, costs a few quid as I had a new loom made with all the extra sensors and variable boost controller erc, but great bit of kit and does everything you would want, and lots more I will never need.

But it looks nice when plugged into the laptop.

James

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

Stu can you elaborate on this please ? i agree with you but what are you reasons for this

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

p8 ? or maby t2 ....

timrud

Stu, would DTA management fit into that category?

adamski frst

harry vipec is the answer...

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bigchez

Excuse my ignorance but could anyone explain how any is better than another please?

I can see that the screen you would look at on the computer when mapping might look different, but surely if you need to add x amount of fuel and ignite it at y timing then they all perform EXACTLY the same function don't they?

bigchez

That's cool, cheerss Danny. I'm not having a pop at anyone I'm just interested to learn.

I didn't know whether it was a case that more expensive ECU's could make finer/more accurate adjustments to fuelling/spark etc so you can be more precise when mapping to eek out more power or summat like that.

foreigneRS

in computer terms, engines are bloody slow

1223456

Its also about how reliable it is as some ecus have a tendenacy at being very good at not doing the same thing twice. Compatability is another issue when buying an ecu such as which injectors they can run (low/high impedence), which sensors they can read etc etc.

most have the basic and extra features but some are better than other in their ability to operate them such as boost control. Im using a mtech v4 ecu which does pretty much everything I need such as boost, launch, nos etc but this is pretty much an entry level ecu compared to the likes of motec, autronic etc. It all depends on what application you want it for, what you want it to do and most of all how deep your pockets are.

p.s. danny recieved the parcel yesterday

Mark Shead

I agree esp when the mapper has no idea, I would rather have one of your webber chips than a badly mapped top of the range aftermarket ecu.

Mark

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

This is exactly the same way I see it.

I always hear that you can make mapping advancements due to a faster processor but as said surely that processor does not have to be that powerful compared to the speed of an engine and so surely this would mean as ECU'S get all the more complex and powerful there will become a point where the power will be overkill. I am talking here is you are using the ECU purely for managing the engine not doing any of the fancy ancillary stuff, I have never been able to get an explanation beyond that.

It's like the E46 M3 has two 32 bit processors IIRC, now I love to know what they actually have to process (Stu etc?)

Martin

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Our of curiosity do you mean this in terms of hardware, software?

Martin

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Danny, actually CPU speed has little to do with ecu/bhp perfotmance.
this is because all ECU's use a hardware timing circuit that controls the timing/durations etc...

A Ł100 4 Meg clock L1 ecu is quite capable off giving an engine the best power as much as a Ł3000 50 Meg clock T6.



So true !


Agreed ! Its all about mapping and engine spec...

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

From my experience, build quality and ease of use are the keys.

For example dont buy an emerald for a turbo car if you want ease of use

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Pectel t6 2000 or life f88 both fantastic in terms of ease to use and what they can do.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Seeing as we are playing guessing games about what we think Stu meant, I'll add my guess too


The thing that makes a Webber ECU superior to an Omex 710 is actually nothing at all to do with the hardware, and everything to do with the software on the ecu.

The person above stating that all map screens are essentially the same and that a value for X rpm and Y pounds of boost is going to be the same in either case is indeed correct that if you were to hold an engine at that particular load point on any ECU with the same value you'll get the same timing and fuelling applied if its mapped correctly.

However, what about when you are on that same load site and then you increase the throttle angle?
You're going to move to another position on the map, and once it settles down there it will again have a held value.

But what should it do whilst moving between the two points?

If there is going to be an increase in boost because you have just opened the throttle further, then by the time it has registered at the map sensor, it is also already present at the intake valve.
If its already present at the intake valve, then it means that its too late to now inject extra fuel to accompany it into the engine as there is a portion of lean air that has already made it pass the injector, so if we apply the "correct" (by the map) value we'll only be correcting the fuel value for the air that hasnt yet got past the injector, so on average it will lean out.

If the ecu is clever enough to see the change in throttle angle, predict that there will be a change in boost as a result, and then pre-emptively increase the fuelling beyond the current map point, that will result in the correct mixture during the transition between the two points.

Likewise if you shut the throttle, you can avoid a rich spot by reducing the fuelling.



Aftermarket ecu's vary in their ability to effect this transient fuelling, and its actually something quite hard to get working well on an ECU when you are mapping it even if you do get the tools for the job handed to you to a certain extent, but I would imagine that on the webber the portion of the software which is tasked with handling this transient fuelling is very well written and if you know what you are doing with the parameters it takes you can get more satisfactory results than you would ever manage on an Omex 710 as the strategies in the Omex are basic.



Thats just a guess though, as I have never actually mapped a Webber ECU as I dont have the hardware for doing so.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

As foreignerRS has already pointed out, engines operate very slowly compared to even an antique processor chip, and when you take into account the fact that there is inherent lag within the way engine data is collated and passed to the ecu in the first place due to things like the time period it takes for the map sensor to react by the time the pressure has equalised up the map pipe and then the internals have to react mechanically in order to change the output resistance value, and the fact that there are only two teeth on the crank sender wheel so they dont come round very often etc, its easy for even a pretty slow processor to be fast enough that additional power isnt really needed in this area.

So its not really got a huge amount to do with the speed of the processor itself IMHO

bigchez

Chip (and others!) I don't know much if anything about this and am keen to learn so really appreciate you taking time to reply.

Are you saying then that essentially all do the same in terms of fuelling/spark/boost, but the more expensive/better one is better at the bit in between load sites to ensure fuelling etc remains correct when there is a change to how hard you are pressing the throttle either to acccelrate or deccelerate?

Do the better ones also have more load sites (I've no idea on how many one may have, but say a cheap/badd ecu might have 100 sites and an expensive one say 500 to pick figures out of the air) so you can also map for more variables meaning that the engine will be as efficient and safe as possible more of the time?

DazC

iTrader: (1)

The life racing F88 isn't too bad once you've worked your way round it but it has a lot of features and options that make the Omex look really basic. I managed to get F88 up and running on my car from a totally unsuitable base map but I'd not expect a first timer or a relatively inexperienced person to manage it. This is where I like the Omex stuff as it's so easy to get something running. I think they are a good starting point if you want something you can play with and have a few toys on there too.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Chez, there are two different situation where the ecu needs to make a guess.


Lets say you have a value at 4000rpm and one at 5000rpm, if you are at a held point between the two, ie at 4500rpm, it will just take the two values and pick one in the middle, this is called "interpolation" ie it draws a graph between the points by joining the lines up, then picks where you would be on that graph.
For this purpose, more load sites is useful.

But the transient fuelling will look at changes in throttle angle, and also at the RATE of change, so if you are going from 4000-5000rpm, the speed at which it is accelerating as it passes the 4500 value wil also effect the way that the ecu predicts what value to put in next, as it knows that there is a lag between it geting a reading, choosing an output, and that output actually being applied


With less values and a more clever algorythm you can actually achieve better transient fuelling that you can with loads of points and a less clever algorythm.

The L8, I would imagine, has some very well thought out strategies for this, but has a low resolution of map to work from (not much memory to store lots of values in due to hardware limitations at the time)


The other important thing with low resolution maps is the placing of the rpm points to most accurately represent the VE curve is what seperates a really good map from an average one, and this is what I would have expected Stu to put a lot of time into over the years whilst developing his maps.

JonnyBravo

Isn't the T6 becoming a bit old hat now though, its a proven ecu for sure but I would of thought so of the newer ecu's should blow it it away in terms of functions ?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

DOS is the future, its coming back I swear, like flares.

I love edlin

DazC

iTrader: (1)

T6 is prehistoric, hence why it was superceded by the SQ6 about 4 years ago.