bj928

can any or all of the ecu's listed run 16 injectors as 16 or would they be better run as 8 on a v8 supercharged engine, and whats the difference between low and high impedence injectors, and is one better than the other for high hp engines

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I dont know of any that will personally run 16. Im sure they are out there though, but I have never needed to know.


In a nutshell, high impedance injectors are slow to react, weak nozzled but draw low current.

Low impedance injectors are fast to react, have strong nozzles and draw very high current. Things are equalising a little nowadays but that is essentially the difference as far as speccing them goes.

If you want to know more I will type some info tomorrow as I am heading to bed now, if your impatient google saturated coil (High) and peak and hold (low) injectors.

Night all.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Hmm, Stab in the dark here, and I have not read page 3 yet, so it might already be said, but was it Shaun Bicknalls Grey Escos? I seem to remember the clutch exploding in that? ... And tales of Rev limiter in 6th gear whilst being mapped at night

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

So true !

excursion

The systems I've looked at seem basic in terms of functionality (when compared with OEM), and seem more geared towards the racing fraternity.

What I'd like to see is something that supports OBDII, pre/post cat, Baro, EGR etc i.e. something fully configurable that will still pass an MOT on a modern vehicle but at the same time give full freedom for a mapper. IMO we really need a road car based enthusiast system, rather than a competition setup - I've not seen one, anyone else know if such a thing exists?

volcomstone411

as far as user interface goes then surely dreamscience is the best. The fact you cant map on the fly is annoying but the user interface is the best, and standard ford ecu has more functions than most??

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Stu, can I just ask was that Seans engine?

Btw the colour of those T6 screen shots always makes me laugh as it's nothing like that, this is what you see..... (I know you know that but for those that have never seen T6)



Like the above ignition map?

Rick

Have you looked at the Bosch Racing ECU's?

Agree totally about the mapping being much more important than the hardware. When I'm the pod, or at a trackday etc. it always amazes me how badly a lot of the cars run. They seem to crank for an age, and then require a few blips of the throttle before they will idle properly. It'sso easy to make them go well on WOT, but takes so much time to sort the transient and start out.

It really makes me chuckle when I see people offering complete mapping sessions which consist of half a day on the rollers!

Rick

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I agree with all that, it can take a few days just to get the warm up fueling right.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Yes mate it was. What a contrast from when your map was running it in your own car eh?!


I still dont have a clue why my screenshots came out like that.



Map? All I can see there are a bunch of very high numbers!

*Edit*
Surely that didnt come out of someones car?!

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Probably a map on an engine of Paul Hill's

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

To be fair to the mapper of that engine (not me, haha) it had just come off the dyno and had only really had the on boost sites calibrated, the other sites would have been done incar but that wasn't to be the case as billy big bucks Bickne11 spotted it in my workshop and he said something like " how much would it take to persuade you to put that lot in my van rather than your car, I want it really really badly" I thought of a figure and doubled it and the engine was his!

T6 always comes out like that if you press 'print screen' don't know why?

And yes!! That map was done by someone very well known and is for a 500hp+ GT equiped turbo car.

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

Race fuel, power pour and an octane booster

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thats odd, I am sure I was told it HAD been done in car, at brunters or similar, after the engine was installed, and thats why he turned to me as it was so awfull. I looked at the calibration by E-Mail first. maybe my memory of events has been distorted by old age, it matters not.

stevieturbo

Depends how you want to run the 16, but with modern high impedance, there is little need and it seems the modern HighZ injectors perform better than the old design LowZ anyway.

That said, I run 16 injectors on my DTA.

Although at the time, the 1000cc Injector Dynamics units werent about. I use 2 x 660cc per cylinder, albeit in batch fire, staged.

The Syvecs ticks most of your boxes Stu. It's relatively new, but making headway into a lot of vehicles, both race and road.

excursion

Rick, no, I hadn't until now. Thanks! I see there is even support for OEM type Direct Injection, and the configuration can be started in Simulink or Matlab.

That's some seriously nice, professional kit!

Cheers,
Mark

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Your memory is trucked Sean knew it had never been in a car as it was just back from the dyno and I was just about to fit it, it was actually my first ever engine on T6.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

So Mark Amblard had not just mapped it in the car?

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I need to have a think about this! I do remember taking a car to Brunters for Amblard to check the map but he wouldn't sit in the car and wanted me to run and then he wanted to analyse the datalogging, wanker!

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Aha... so its not my memory thats trucked, its yours.
The stories now collaborate nicely. Sean complained of the exact same thing. LOL

bj928

i know these days i don't need to run 16 injectors, but the inlet i'm using is from a ford GT supercar and costs $300 delivered and is available from loads of places, the same basic engine in the new mustang GT500 uses 8 injectors in a very similar inlet and costs $1200+, so as i can run 16 injectors i can use lower cc injectors that are a lot cheaper, looking at prices in America i will need 8XID2000's costing like $3k, or 16x750cc at $1k, so overall a massive saving, in fact the saving is so good, it should mean i can get ecu and fuel rails and other bits and still be in pocket

also i want to cut the inlet about to allow me to run a normal intercooler rather than the crap in inlet charge cooler,

does anyone know the formular to work out the injector flow i need so can work out the injectors i need, i am looking at 1000hp at the wheels, so i guess about 1200 at flywheel, i want a little in reserve so would like it worked out at 85% duty cycle for 1500 flywheel hp.

stevieturbo

RC Engineering's website has a calculator.

Not sure what 750's you want to use, but I tried the RC Eng ones, and they arent great. Ive 8 of them gathering dust.

Jam0r

Kind of a related question, how easy is it to map current, modern ECUs compared to the costs of fitting an aftermarket system? For arguments sake, lets say the car is a Fiesta ST.

This is aimed at Stu really (I've already sent Kenny an email asking for some advice on re-mapping but not had a reply yet)

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

1.

(1500)

1500x0.5 = 750

2.

3.

(750)

Grab a coffee mate...
http://www.motorsport-developments.c...AF286_tech.pdf

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

It depends from whos point of view are you asking?

From mine: See here:
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...-required.html

From yours, see here I guess:
http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Vehi...ng_Search.html

Rick

You will be able to run 16x low z injectors easily enough by pairing them upto the same driver. Is it a V8? If so i'd do what Steve has done and run them semi sequential, staged.

Mark -

nice aren't they? Easily the most advanced ECU available. Nice price too! I would love to have a play with one, but i've managed to dissasemble and figure out how the OE Bosch Motronic ME 7 and MED9 ECU's work and am confident I could adapt it to work on most engines. I'll get round to doing it one day.

Rick

Jam0r

I guess from yours really (I'm all new to this) as the car is now running a supercharger and I was wondering what the next best step to take would be. It's had a custom remap when the kit was fitted which was simply a flash of the standard ECU but I've since sourced some cams and was wondering what route to head down in regards to the map once they have been fitted

stevieturbo

I dont use low impedance, I use Modern Siemens high impedance.

Rick

Oops, i meant hi z!

excursion

Rick,
I read about ME7 disassembly on andywhittaker.com - I think he did it with IDA Pro. Good work anyway, the ME7 is a nice bit of kit!

Mark

bj928

looking at the Siemens 80lb injectors which are 835cc giving me loads of overkill, meaning the duty cycle is way lower than the 85% and hopefully this makes them reliable, i can get all 16 for about $900 (Ł600) new, they are hi impedence

bj928

yes its a V8, it will basicly be a built version of the 5.4 supercharged Ford GT supercar engine

bj928

this is a good thread, i'm learning stuff, thanks guys

Rick

Stu, the customer would have to bring it to you in Blackpool though I presume? Your dealers don't have a master license, or the expertise to perform a custom calibration in the majority of cases?

Rick.

stu21t

what a good thread, ive just learnt a lot about mapping that ive heard of but knew nothing about.

and 4 tuners on 1 thread, with more than 1 reply and no bitching!
maybe the split rooms are a good idea...

stevieturbo

It's only 4 pages....give it time. lol

stu21t

yea but its normally after 4 posts the gloves come off. lmao

Brettski mk2

iTrader: (3)

Not much said about motec??Is it becouse of the price...What are peoples thoughts about them.I had 3 celicas on motec and mapped by Adrain @ fensport never had any problems with the mapping/ecu and mapped at a afordable price.I'll let them do me saph I think.
who deals with Motec and cossies?H T racing??anyone else
Cheers

rs-tuner

iTrader: (1)

can any of the tuners on this thread give lessons in engine mapping i really want to learn.

it doesent matter how many books i read i still cant grasp it 100%

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Mapping isn't rocket science, with the right equipment, and good knowledge of the system you will soon find your way around it.

What makes mapping difficult is starting with a blank canvas. The beauty of modern ecus is you can upload another map for a starting point, once you have a engine started and running you can soon start working your way around the mapping points.

With a proper lambda for afr and det cans you can get a friend to slowly drive you around to start whilst you adjust (best to start working up the revs stationary). Ps det cans are more top end stuff not used for cruise or part throttle mapping,

I may have made it seem a little easy as I am used to a very user friendly system and I guess it just comes as second nature now, but you soon pick it up, its just a little scary playing with your pride and joy knowing you are the one making it safe though

I'm banging on a bit now but, when mapping and looking at a fuel map you can start to see a trend, as the revs go up fuel will increase most of the time so you can start getting in a pattern and seeing what's to come next

Just little bits you pick up with experience I suppose, engine note is also very important, you can hear when a engine is un happy, if its too weak and you add a touch of fuel you can just hear its so much happier,

I don't think this will help you much in terms of learning to map as the only way to do that is have a go! Get a program loaded onto your laptop and play, you can't do no damage that way lol!

Be interesting to see other peoples opinions on this


(must add, the above is very basic mapping! It does get a little more involved than just a fuel map, start up, warm up maps are time consuming, boost maps, can just go on for ever and this is still basic starting and running mapping)