alistairolsen

The focus RS engines are the later 2.5 with the 83mm bore.......

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Always a bonus when there are N/A versions to nick cams from as well, assuming they are hotter than the turbo ones like I would expect them to be?

Did the 4 cylinder exist in any sort of go faster N/A trim (ie a 150bhp+ model) that you know of?

and yes if engines are 400 quid a go, im happy to chuck another one in each winter TBH so not really bothered about long term reliability (same attitude I have with the nova now that I have gone from 10K vauxhall engines to 200 quid saab ones )

Chip

iTrader: (3)

83mm is still definately good for 75bhp per bore then

caprizetec170

how about 2.3 duratec turbo out of mazda 6 4x4 thingy, cant imagine ya been able squeez 5cylinder volvo between clio wings. newer saab turbo engine be a good bet know older ones are buillt proof up to 400brake on standard bottom end and fit on vauxhall f20 boxes

alistairolsen

See my earlier post....

The T5 came with a TD04-15g which was good for 300bhp with just a remap (just). If you want more, either keep oe manifold (shite) and fit a 16g or 19g? turbo (good for 350ish iirc but expensive and rare) or go tubular and fit your choice of turbo, 3071s are understandably popular.

Sadly I dont think the T4 shared a turbo. I know the later LPT cars came with a TD04-9t which was a neat little twin scroll thing with a 240bhp max output (I have one kicking about) but its on a different flange.



You MAY get lucky and find the early 1.9s came with a conventional TD04 flange, in which case a turbo from a T5 engine would do your power output flat out and are about 50-100 quid secondhand.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive got an older saab lump on an F23 in my nova mate, but the older ones are as bad at weight as a YB

Its the FOUR cylinder volvo that is being discussed here, we're only mentioning 375bhp T5 engines in terms of what a 300bhp T4 one would be like reliability wise.

Newer Saab lump is a VERY good engine, but a little large possibly, will have to have a measure up.

dont know much about those 2.3 duratecs, will look into those too, thanks for the suggestions.

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

there is a 200bhp t4 volvo. had a quick look on ebay theres an 1800 t4 turbo car complete for 395 quid...dont get much more budget than that chip lol

duratecs would need rods and pistons.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Standard T5 manifold will do 375bhp I take it?
(ie hinting at 300bhp from a T4 if its similar design?)

Shame the flanges arent all the same, like you say I'll have to find out if the earlier ones were!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

By the time I weight in the cat and then the car, that would be a 200 quid engine and box

Back in the same sort of budget region as my Saab engine in the nova!
Fucking perfect by the sounds of it then.

Who cares if you rod a block on a 200 quid engine anyway?

alistairolsen

Russ tried the 2.5n/a cams in the 2.3 turbo and didnt get on with them but I dont know if that was specific to his spec, they would certainly be worth a try.

There was a 140bhp 2.0 n/a petrol.

Indeed, its a good way to go IMO if the power expectation is suitable, read too much misery from you and Rob to spend out on a proper build. Id imagine like me, if you fall 20bhp short youre not gonna care either.

I have considered doing a turbo build in a 2.5 block for myself given the low power output but I dont think I could get away with the CR and Im scottish and wont pay for pistons.

Were not talking about the 5 cylinder anyway and the 2.3 duratec was mentioned over the page problem is a good box, although apparently fiesta one fits. The duratec (from memory) is very long and tall though.

alistairolsen

disposable engine FTW.

tuning is daft really, you spend out on a head for power, then on rods to insure the head, pistons to insure the rods, crank to insure everything else and then wedge it all on a 100k old block that someone designed with a 60% safety margin for standard power.

I wouldnt trust the standard manifold for much over 300, it is HORRIBLE



standard one is the top one. Bottom one is volvos performance manifold for the s60r or similar (stole the pic from russ) there may be something simialr for the t4 but I dont know. Ultimately, spending cash on a decent manifold is ok in my mind as it doesnt get destroyed when the engine dies :P

I suspect this whol discussion is going to boil down to the T4 vs the 1.8 as 4k largely precludes any n/a to turbo conversions, or modern donor cars. I also suspect the choice will come down to the all up weight of the engine and box which is currently unknown, hopefully Russ has a fucked box he can weigh, I believe you have rover box weight from martoon and go from there.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes, you are preaching to the converted Ali, lol

My thinking is to find a cheap standard engine that will do what I want, so that its a throw away item, rather than spending thousands of pounds to try and get power out of an engine thats not up to the job in the first place.

I agree that spending on a manifold wouldnt be the end of the world, as its unlikely to get killed if a rod lets go etc, and if its tucked around the back of the engine will probably even survive a crash.

300bhp out of a 4 cylinder doesnt seem a big ask, a C20LET would do it in standard trim for example (give or take 20bhp due to the turbo), and Ive got a couple of sets of steal rods and various pistons etc and all sorts of tuning goodies for them too, but the downside to that engine is weight distribution and total weight, so its just a case of finding the same sort of positive characteristics in a better package weight wise!

This T4 lump does seem very promising.

Will need to find out how well they could cope with more revs though, i'd like the option of 7750 if possible (this is where the integra lump would be awesome but I dont like the base engine price!)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Do you have a T4/T5 bore spacing figure? (ie distance from centre to centre of the bores)

Ive got a renault manifold that might be possible to fit on an adaptor flange that is very compact and i know will do 300bhp even though its not amazing, its like this:



Not equal length, but decent sized runners and a T2 flange that I can hang loads of cheap turbos off (like the ones I liberate from all the saab engines im going to get through!)

Thick cast walls as well so basically indestructable, sits in close to the block too for clearance, and it doesnt need a turbo hanger if it gets hot etc.
If I could get one of those onto the T4 engine, it really would be a great budget build.
4wd cosworth manifold is another option that would work ok, although I suspect bore spacing will be MILES out for that so more likely to be close to the renault (its a similar bore)

alistairolsen

I dont know, can measure inlet ports at the weekend if Russ doesnt either. Id guess at around 90mm though given bore and wall from the pics.

If youre prepared to accept a log, it really wouldnt take much to make one up with some bends and a mig. I need some head flanges anyway so if you do go this way get a few extras cut

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Just realised, I've owned a N/A version of that engine for 6 years now and done 80K miles with it (was on 178k when I got it, on 260K now) and its NEVER missed a beat, original 260K old mile head gasket still etc.

My dad currently uses it for taking garden waste to the tip etc as I dont use it anymore, but he wants to get a new audi 4wd or similar anyway, so Ive got a set of n/a cams etc if i need them anyway, lol

Assuming that a V40 is the same base engine, which im sure it is!

Downside to that engine is the gearbox is a renault one, but if the T5 boxes fit thats not an issue!

foreigneRS

i can sense that you're quite excited about this stage of the project chip. it makes good reading

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Cool, although TBH I can measure them fairly well too now that I have realised I have one sat on the drive in N/A form
Can just offer the manifold up to it, the manifold is literally in a garage about 60ft from where the volvo is, lol


For 300bhp, I dont need to be bothered much about manifold design providing the ports arent tiny it will be fine.

Hopefully one of the ones you get cut will go wrong and be scrapped due to damage to cylinder 5

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes mate, I really enjoyed choosing the engine for my nova too and getting it to fit in the hole etc
Ive learnt now that the default "i'll tune whats already in it" approach that all of us tend to have normally is a fucking stupid idea when fitting a different engine is so much cheaper and more maintainable longer term than tuning one just cause it happened to be found in the bay.

alistairolsen

not sure if its the same mate, if you read the wiki link I posted earlier and this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_S40

and here:

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archiv...p/t-82653.html

I suspect the 1.9 and 2.0 turbos are different....

alistairolsen

Na, its just a response thing and even then Im unconvinced.

I need 5 separate single cyl flanges, hence my suggestion of getting a few done

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I'll take 5 too then, that way I have a spare

alistairolsen

Always pays to carry spare for common failure points, especially if they are easily replaced in the pits to keep you out on track

Chip

iTrader: (3)

TBH as my mrs likes doing trackdays anyway, Ive got the ultimate spare normally as we do a lot of the same trackdays, so I just use her car when mine breaks

alistairolsen

That's not nice, calling your mrs a spare :P

TBH the best "spare"s story I heard was when Stu or porkie got black flagged for noise at bedford I think and just paid the space again and took the cayenne towcar out

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yeah Stu has used is Cayenne or Audi at a few events when the red car has had problems, great when your tow car is also 450bhp

dont think he has to pay again either, they are normally good at bedford at letting you swap for free I beleive.

alistairolsen

Not bad

let me know how you get in with Russ, obviously Im interested in any generic volvo whiteblock info!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I spoke to him earlier, he isnt going to Surrey tonight so Ive sent him a link to this thread so that when he gets 5 mins free hopefully he can fill us in with some of his epic volvo knowledge!

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I would!!! Apart from ruining your day it's easy to set the car on fire if that happens.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yeah fair point on the fire risk, in the blue clio even that wouldnt bother me at all, but in the yellow one it would cause its pretty and the mrs would kill me

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Back on the subject of the standard turbos, seems that tuning companies are quoting in the 250-260bhp sort of region once remapped and on a decent exhaust

http://en.bsr.se/products/t533/

which by definition im going to have to do anyway as obviously i'll have to make a custom exhaust and im going to have to map it on aftermarket management anyway.

250 would be a pretty good starting point TBH, would have liked a bit more, but if I can do that on a totally standard lump then it would be good initially and I can build up a better engine and bigger turbo etc later on.

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Great thread. Funny how there is a TOTAL volvo geek off on a ford forum! Brilliant. It's amazing what you can find on here.

It sounds like the clio will be a proper track tool! Are you chasing Lee or Spiky?

BlueSmoke

Aren't the Audi 4.2 V8's ally blocked?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ali, going back to exhaust manifolds, I wonder how hard it would be to blank off internall the 5th cylinder and just chop it off the end on a S60 manifold, that would get me the right flange and a decent flowing manifold if its possible, lol

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well my current clio can match spikey in the bends but loses out to him on the straights as he has about 40bhp more than me IIRC, new one should put me the same amount in front of him power wise than he is me at the moment (if not a little more) but i know that he is after more power too, so hopefully we'll both end up at about 280bhp or something and can have some proper battles, especially as for both of us Combe and Pembrey are handy tracks to get to so we are likely to be at the same events! (normally I see spikey at 4 or 5 trackdays a year at least!)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes but they may be a "little" tricky to fit in the front of a clio

foreigneRS

sounds entirely suitable for a clio

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Looks like the cams out my old volvo could be finding a new home if I scrap it, my guess appears to be correct that they would make a good upgrade for T4

Chip

iTrader: (3)

More Gen here:


Interesting, so if I go for a later engine, its on fucking solids from the factory! WIN

Mint! woudlnt mind having to buy cams if I have solid lifters for free.

Pistons are good for 380bhp seems to be general consensus, so a set of 350 quid rods into a later mechanical engine, and a set of hotter cams with a bigger turbo on some form of better turbo and I should be able to easily get 300bhp but more importantly should be able to hold onto it to about 8K if I want to.
So an interesting possible progression at a later date!

alistairolsen

LMAO @ geek off :P TBH unless its a marque specific forum where no one likes to get their hands dirty you find most forums have a spectrum of petrol heads who enjoy getting involved in anything that goes quick.

You need to find out which engines had which turbos tbh, I suspect the 9t I have would do that *just* (I bought it to do 175 on a 1600 16v) but you may find early engines had a normal td04 and hence could do a little more (and have the right manifold flange)

As for converting an s60 manifold, yeah, its been done a few times. I wouldnt bother with the s60 manifold though, its not too common (unless you fall across one) but the T5 is generally better catered for with logs of the style you posted above.



Yeah they are, but as my mate who is trying to get one into a landrover will testify, they are also big in all the wrong places.

That sounds like epic fun tbh, always nice to find something of similar performance at trackdays.

LMAO! spaceframed rear end and rwd would make a change.... Oh, wait

LMAO, just swap the cams, he wont notice losing 10bhp :P if the engines are the same just that mean the 4cyl blocks have some wank renault box flange? I assumed the whiteblock would take the m56 but dont take that as gospel. For instance I know the M90 comes with an audi flange on it as they used it with the audi derv in the 960....


With the 5 pots the n/a engines had solids and the turbos were on hydraulics in the era I was looking at so I was thinking of buying a 2.5 and swapping out the cams and lifters. For some reason Russell saw no major power gain though...... Certainly a worthy discussion point!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its an M56 gearbox on the T4 anyway.
Our V40 is on a renault laguna box but I think it has a different front end to fit the volvo block, not positive on that though

Would be pissing funny if due to renault/volvo collaboration of that age there were even some shafts that could fit somehow (joke, im sure that i'll need custom ones)