Gotech Pro X nearly melted my engine
09-01-2011, 11:16 PM
#81
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I'm not sure but lets not get into a marathon technical Passionford war over this one. I'm confident that Luke tested it properly and the ECU is firing randomly under certain conditions. So it's off the car and the engine is undamaged.
If a different ECU produces the same problem then Luke will be investigating further but I trust him to get the diagnosis right.
Charlie
If a different ECU produces the same problem then Luke will be investigating further but I trust him to get the diagnosis right.
Charlie
10-01-2011, 09:19 AM
#82
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I'm not supporting Gotech as i'm not a fan personally, but from what you said it doesn't sound like it was tested correctly. It could have been tested fine but you just misinterpreted how he tested it, more of a communication error. However, I think its wrong for you to slate an ECU potentially putting customers off, if it wasn't tested correctly. If you didn't want to get into a war/discussion you shouldn't have posted the thread on a public forum IMO.
If a product isn't fit for purpose then it's perfectly valid for me to report my findings which may put customers off. I wouldn't want to buy something that will let me down and I'd like to be warned about it by others that have had experience. My summary - Gotech Pro X is not suitable for racing.
Charlie
Last edited by Char1ie; 10-01-2011 at 09:23 AM.
10-01-2011, 10:04 AM
#83
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Thought youd say something similar!!!lol
Well as far as the car its now on different ecu with the same loom adapted to the link connector i believe(not for sure)and has no issues so i think all involved is happy at the mo
This isnt the first issue with gotechs either though..
cheers danny
Well as far as the car its now on different ecu with the same loom adapted to the link connector i believe(not for sure)and has no issues so i think all involved is happy at the mo
This isnt the first issue with gotechs either though..
cheers danny
Originally Posted by Char1ie
ECU Monitor Enthusiast you say "The only way to check for sure is with a dual trace ocislloscope...." but I disagree. Luke used a signal generator through the ECU with no loom connected and the ECU started generating random spark signals. This is enough to determine that the problem is with the ECU as the ECU was tested in isolation.
Charlie
Charlie
This can only be truly be determined by an electronics expert with knowledge of the internal workings of the specified ecu using the right measuring eqiupment which I doubt very much any tuner would have or need to have.
(No disresepect to danny/Luke/EP)
I am not saying one way or the other Gotech was at fault as there is much more going on in an installation that the ecu itself which is my point here. !!
I am glad you have now resolved things
10-01-2011, 02:39 PM
#84
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Charlie asked, what can be done incorrectly when fitting an ECU, well plenty, bad earth, parts of harness running along parallel to plug leads, no shield on the crank or cam sensor, bad connections, etc.
I agree with ECU monitor, in the way he said the crank sensor signal should be checked. I don't want to start an arguement with anyone, and repect to each poster, but this is a very interesting thread.
John
I agree with ECU monitor, in the way he said the crank sensor signal should be checked. I don't want to start an arguement with anyone, and repect to each poster, but this is a very interesting thread.
John
10-01-2011, 05:01 PM
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Charlie asked, what can be done incorrectly when fitting an ECU, well plenty, bad earth, parts of harness running along parallel to plug leads, no shield on the crank or cam sensor, bad connections, etc.
I agree with ECU monitor, in the way he said the crank sensor signal should be checked. I don't want to start an arguement with anyone, and repect to each poster, but this is a very interesting thread.
John
I agree with ECU monitor, in the way he said the crank sensor signal should be checked. I don't want to start an arguement with anyone, and repect to each poster, but this is a very interesting thread.
John
Crank sensor - no as ECU was tested in isolation.
Bad earth - no. Bad connections - no. All wiring new and shielded and run correctly through the car, and not part of the ECU test as it was not tested on the car.
If you take an ECU off the car and stick a signal into it via its connector pins and you see the ECU firing random signals at a certain RPM how could you think that there is a sensor or earth problem. THE ECU IS NOT ON THE CAR - it is sitting on a desk in an office.
Charlie
11-01-2011, 10:13 AM
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Charlie,
Sorry but just sticking and ecu on the desk and testing it with a signal generator is NOT the definitive way of testing it.
A signal generator will not produce/simulate the correct crank signal with missing pulses, the correct shaped waveform, duty cycle or the correct run time resistive load, let alone all the normal noise transients present in such a signal.
Now, I am in no way having a go at EP and am just responding what people have said here.
It seems to me that no "proper" diagnosis has actually happened but a replacement ecu has been fitted and the problem solved.
That proves nothing to me speaking as an electronics professional with extensive ecu experience.
Having said this, as this appears to be a known problem then I guess its easy to assume the ecu is at fault.
I would be very interested in hearing what Gotech say about this if it was my car !
For the record, I am, 100% independant of EP and Gotech and I mean no disrespect to either organisations.
Sorry but just sticking and ecu on the desk and testing it with a signal generator is NOT the definitive way of testing it.
A signal generator will not produce/simulate the correct crank signal with missing pulses, the correct shaped waveform, duty cycle or the correct run time resistive load, let alone all the normal noise transients present in such a signal.
Now, I am in no way having a go at EP and am just responding what people have said here.
It seems to me that no "proper" diagnosis has actually happened but a replacement ecu has been fitted and the problem solved.
That proves nothing to me speaking as an electronics professional with extensive ecu experience.
Having said this, as this appears to be a known problem then I guess its easy to assume the ecu is at fault.
I would be very interested in hearing what Gotech say about this if it was my car !
For the record, I am, 100% independant of EP and Gotech and I mean no disrespect to either organisations.
11-01-2011, 11:13 AM
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On the car with the ECU installed, during a race I experienced misfires at around 5000rpm.
With the ECU removed and on a bench with a similar signal running into it at around 5000rpm the ECU produced random spark signals.
How could you not believe that the ECU is at fault? What else do you need to see?
Charlie
With the ECU removed and on a bench with a similar signal running into it at around 5000rpm the ECU produced random spark signals.
How could you not believe that the ECU is at fault? What else do you need to see?
Charlie
11-01-2011, 11:50 AM
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12-01-2011, 04:35 PM
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charlie, i dont think youre understanding what SECS is saying.
what he means is that thee test on the bench was not correct. ie you state:
whereas what simon is saying is that what actually happened was:
"with the ECU plugged into some equipment which provided signals that were not the same as what your engine would and infact would be expected to cause erratic behaviour, the ECU behaved erratically"
ie you cannot draw any definitive conculsion from this particular test
if you scroll up you'll also notice that stu@MSD has also agreed with simon on this subject
does that make it any clearer?
ta
Jim
what he means is that thee test on the bench was not correct. ie you state:
With the ECU removed and on a bench with a similar signal running into it at around 5000rpm the ECU produced random spark signals.
"with the ECU plugged into some equipment which provided signals that were not the same as what your engine would and infact would be expected to cause erratic behaviour, the ECU behaved erratically"
ie you cannot draw any definitive conculsion from this particular test
if you scroll up you'll also notice that stu@MSD has also agreed with simon on this subject
does that make it any clearer?
ta
Jim
12-01-2011, 04:39 PM
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Of course I understand. The signal simulated the trigger signal close enough and the ECU spat out random signals. Trust me, that is good enough for me, and it's good enough for Luke.
No more Gotech in my life.
Charlie
No more Gotech in my life.
Charlie
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