I know what your saying Dojj, but Labour havent really got a campaign this time have they? As they know people are fed up and wanting change, so instead of campaigning about what Labour are about, they are instead trying make it clear what the others are about as a lot of people are being fooled into thinking the other two parties are for them. Thats why on the debates Brown is constantly trying to get Cameron to answer the question clearly, which he just wont - typical Tory.

 

how can the parties not in power make concise plans on cuts without having the figures?

brown has all the advantages there hence why he is able to give more details

 

and i think that's where they are going wrong, they have stopped telling us what they want to do and are now telling us what the other parties will do, but then they get that wrong so they are just at the same place they were when the started

and while they may talk the talk, the fact that they've spent so much money on just absolute shit, started a war we'll never win, no vote on europe when they said they would and no election when tony b liar stepped down all point to them steamrollering their ideas through wihtout giving a damn about the peole who voted for them in the first palce

i would have been more inclined to agree with gordon had he said "right then chaps, tony's stepping down, i'll be taking his place, now lets have an election to make sure the countr agree's" but they didn't and that's just about the cuntiest things he could have done

and while we are the the soap box i might as well have a rant about other stuff too

scotlands got its own parliment yes?
same as wales
so why don't they decide what they do with their own incomes rather than sponge of the rset of the country? and why can't we tell them what we want to do but they can sit in parliment and have a say on which direction we are going?

either have it one way or the other, but not both, no wonder them scottish twats in numbers 10 and 11 have fucked the country over

freedom of information act i think would go somewhere towards the finding of the figures mate, beside, if you were thinking of taking over a business, yo'd want the facts and figurse there in front of you or else you woulnd't know what sort of shit you were going to get yourself into

and now the same as cleg is the equivelant of a drunken tattoo, and brown is the equivelent of the capitain going down with his ship, cameron is playing the part of richerd gere in pretty woman

copywrite me, dojj, before you let start stealing my ideas

 

I wish I'd been able to watch that interview, but I was out sadly. However, the idea that we need to wait to start cutting wastage in the public sector just doesn't wash with me. Many public sector institutes are spending way more than needed. Did the IFS not say this week that Labour are the worst of the three main parties for identifying where the cuts are going to come? Or at least that they've identified the least amount, which seems to contradict what you just said?

I do think we have a fundamental difference in political views here, but it's all good fun arguing about it

I agree with Dojj here; I think that tactic is really hurting him. During the course of the leader's debates, when the BBC etc were guaging people's opinions of each candidate as the debate went on, when they were busy slagging each other off was when people totally switched off to them.

People don't want to hear it anymore, they want positive comments on how we're going to improve things, and the Labour approach of trying to scare us off the other parties is just making it even worse for them.

The sad thing is; that if we get a hung parliament, which is obviously a distinct possibility at this point, then I think the Lib Dems are more likely to form a coallition with Labour than the Conservatives, which I just think would be a disaster. I can't imagine the Lib Dems would be able to get any compromise with Brown. I don't think anything would get done at all, we'd just carry on, full steam ahead towards the ice berg.

 

iplayer

 

to be honest it's whoever the media gets behind that gets in and no matter what labour do and how good they are on these debates they always come out last.

Basically whoever the Sun news paper has on its front page next thursday will win as shallow as that is.

Pete

 

I think going to uni and studying for my exams is probably a bit more important sadly

After all, Labour have now let the uni charge me over Ł3000 a year for the privilidge of being here

I don't know if it will quite play out like that, but the Sun supporting the Conservatives certainly won't do them any harm on polling day!

 

You see, this is where he loses me (well, not just here cos the labour party as a whole stand for principles I just cannot agree with), but, if he has identified cuts to save money, but will continue to haemorrhage money before he makes those cuts, won't we owe even more money hence the cuts he eventually makes will be a mere drop in an even bigger ocean. Or is this too simplistic and he really is a monetary genius.

Its like me going overdrawn to such an extent that there is no way I can repay it, but then telling the bank that I have seen how I can save a few quid in a few years, once I've managed to accrue the biggest debt in the world

 

good analogy can i add to it-
If only they would have done that in the Titanic the ship may not have sunk, they tryed to dodge the iceberg too late on a ship that doesn't turn very well and the 'boat' sunk- exactly wot would happen to the country if the tories got in power

 

What Happened to the Other Who ya ganna vote for? Thread and Poll?

BNP for me .. Again ..

Not gonna waste my Time with Why's and Why Not's ..

 

all of em are cunts...so bnp for me.

 

And rightly so, once you get your qauls youll be earning much more wont you!

 

Why also do people keep banging on about this War Labour put us in that we cant win, its not even that sort of war for a start, and the Tories 100% back the troops being in afghanistan!
The war is to protect us against terrorism. I'd sooner them be doing that than fighting over some small meaningless(at the time) islands miles away

 

did you notice how brown made the point of saying he wouldn't get into a hung parliment with the tories, but totally blanked cleg? could this be because he needs clg more than cleg needs him? didn't cleg make the point about him having to be prime minister because "how can gordon still be prime minister if his party's come in third?"

so labour are banking on the libs coming to the rescue, the libs are banking on there being a hung parliment, the tories are waiting to win

they said that once the war was on they backed our troops fighting over there, but they woklnd't have sent them there in the first place if they were in power, it all goes back to the otehr side winning if we withdraw, even though we have won on a technicality by outsing the bad guys, the bad guys are still there and are only being held at bay by the good guys, so when the good guys go, the bad guys take over again

it's the same premis that superman returns is based on

 

Hold up a second....

By allowing universities to increase tuition fees, the yearly cost of tuition has tripled in the last five years, to around Ł3300 per year.

You're saying you support a system where you have to pay through the nose to better yourself and potentially be able to put more back into the tax system throughout your working life, whilst equally letting people sit on their arse doing nothing and claiming benefit for it?

That doesn't make much sense

Surely reduced fees would be better (I personally think higher education should be free as it is in Scotland) and then stop all these scabby lazy shits from claiming benefits they don't deserve. Investing in our future is a far better use of money than paying people for being workshy as we do at the moment

 

Fuck off you senile old cunt!

 

i reckon what we need is a hung result, short period of civil unrest/civil war, temporary emergency government while a complete restructure of democracy to a longer period in office forcing political partys to make policys that are realistic and with sufficient time in office to have measurable changes for long term policies to sort this mess of a country out.

the current 4 year model just doesnt work as from a long term perspective you see little benefit in only 4 years for a lot of outlay so of course there is no incentive for political parties to spend a lot of time on long term planning. This countries taken a long time to get fucked up so needs some long term plans to sort it out. The people need to understand that rather than most parties focusing purely on 4 year political cycle and sham/cop out policies to give paper results within 4 years yet not actually achieve anything. A prime example is ASBO's. On paper looks great and has achieved "results". Reality on the street shows little has changed.

Our current version of democracy is outdated and not effective for the modern world. Its about time its updated if we really want to rebuild our economy and sort our country out.

Sadly i think nobody really wants change that badly and things in this country will need to get a lot worse before things have to change.

 

People keep banging on about stopping peoples benefits. So what do you suggest? All the lazy ones who dont want to and wont work, what will happen to them?

 

there is more than 1 newspaper available, and they each have their own agenda.

get off here then, and learn to spell

 

I couldn't give a shit what happens to them to be honest with you. If people aren't willing to do anything but sit around and claim benefits when they are perfectly capable of working, then their benefits should be cut. I fully support a welfare system that supports those who are unable to work due to health problems, as any decent person would, but I fail to see why tax payer's money should go towards those that have no interest in working and looking after themselves and believe that they have a right to other people's money to live on. If their benefits are cut, they'll soon get off their arses and get a job then won't they. And if they don't, well, that's a bit less pollution in the gene pool isn't it

That word always confuses me for some reason

And I'm doing engineering, not english

 

Hopefully they will starve to death in their cardboard boxes or die in some shop doorway on a cold night....

The justice system would need to be beefed up as well as sort the benefits issue so that the scum who choose to commit crime to make up for lost benefits actually get locked up and brutalised in prison.

Then hopefully they will "get with the program", end up locked up or living on the street/dead.

If they get with the program and work, great!, and if they end up on street or dead, then great too cos at least my taxes arent being wasted. And if we have to lock them up in prison, id rather Ł20k of my taxes had them locked up for a year in a harsh prison than living a life of riley doing what they want in society.


This "benefit class" problem only exists because our society is so pathetically soft and ALLOWS them to get away with it. Just think, 100 years ago before the welfare state people who refused to work just died a short and painful life. Its called natural selection in the wild........


Our society has NO place for those who want everything on a plate. Sure those who due to illness are incapable of work, or those actively job seeking deserve basic support. Those taking the system for a ride deserve fuck all.

Harsh yes, but necessary.

 

human rights brigade will you love you warren

 

Exactly what i knew you'd put. So you suggest we put a massive strain on police resources as they will turn to crime, also obviously having a big impact on insurance claims etc.

It just cant work. If you want to live in a shithole like that move to bangledesh or somewhere

 

To a certain extent i agree with you, but this is 2010 not 1910 and that sort of thing just aint gonna happen anymore. Id like hanging brought back for murderers and peados etc but its not gonna happen. God and im sure it was you who told ME to stop living in the past over the coal mine issues!

 

they went to work houses

 

human rights act needs reviewing anyway. human rights mean nothing if society collapses. Needs to be a balance of the rights of the individual versus the rights and needs of society as a whole. that balance is too far towards the individual and funnily enough society has suffered massively as a result.
well my ideas wouldnt make it like 1910. The same benefits are available to people, they just have to work for them/make the effort. I suspect those that are stupid enough to give up and live on street when the money dries up are relatively limited.


This society gives these people multiple opportunities to change yet they lack the motivation to do so as they get free money easily. take that away and they will have a choice wont they?!

and im not saying live in the past we can learn from the mistakes of the past as well as the lessons. softly softly rehab prison dont work as its no deterrant, brutal american prison dont work as extreme sustained environments get mentally adjusted to, but a combination should be effective.

the problem is a lot of these criminals havent had the best upbringing so the concepts of boundarys etc just dont mean anything to them. they are usually well aware of right and wrong but if theres no punnishment that they understand, and that crime still remains so profitable then why would they change???

now accepting that core beliefs are pretty much permenantly seated by the time you hit your late teens you will have to make the consequences of crime a actual punishment in a way these people will understand. And the reality of it is that means harsher conditions, no luxurys, limited rights, BUT at the same time the opportunity to change with rehabilitation. And from what ive seen from visiting adult prisons and youth offending (and knowing inmates), we are well wide of the mark.

Yes the concepts of reward for behaviour etc do exist in prison and sure for YOU and I (ie people who understand morals, boundarys etc) the system would work, but for the more serious criminals its no real hardship other than deprivation of liberty. Sure it may seem unpleasant to us middle class/upper working class types to be in prison but for your average serial offender from a sink hole shit estate, it aint that bad and has added security of no worries about food/accom etc etc and a well needed routine! hardly the punishment you would hope it was.

The young offenders ive been to several times is quite a nice place single rooms, tv, phone, playstations, pool tables etc etc etc. And yet those are the teens who very much need rigid enforced boundarys and who would benefit from a harsher boundary teaching, consequences of your actions reward based program.

In simple terms, punnishment MUST be a deterrant, but at the same time you have to help these people to get the skills to choose to not commit crime. We majorly fail on the first point and the americans on the second point.

yes it would be expensive to review our justice system to the extent necessary and make benefits for only those genuinely in need but what else can we do??

Just giving up on these people and accepting them as an unavoidable burden on society just isnt working is it??

its going to cost a shit load of money to sort and i cant see any political party under our democratic 4 year model going for it as it will look to your average low IQ voter (ie the masses) as a lot of money for little gain in the next few years. But ultimately in 10-20 years the benefits would be great. but your average voter is either incapable or does not want to consider that when it means more taxes for them now.

 

Or even better, the installation of it. We don't live in a democracy. Sure we get the choice of a few parties, but when was the last time you got a vote on issues important to you? Like our entry into the EU? Those pricks make a lot of our laws now, for what??! They don't know what's best for this country, they're only interested in what's best for the fat cats in charge. Fucking overpaid bunch of cunts. We shouldn't be giving them a penny in my opinion. There's a reason they won't give us an EU referendum... because they already know what the outcome would be and they're ignoring it. NOT a democracy in the slightest.

 

Some other thoughts for all you voters.

We want wealth in this country. If you dont make the rich richer they wont create jobs to give you a cut, the Socialist idea you can pinch their money to give to the minorities will see us all in the gutter.
When every Labour goverment has left office the Footsie has been lower than when they came to Power & will be the same this time. When every Conservative goverment have left office the Footsie has been higher. You may not own shares or perhaps see them as being for the rich BUT its your pension pot, serps opt out or endowlment policy that will suffer.
Love all the BNP voters they are really going to help on wealth creation, adapt their policies & the country will grind to a stop, too many work shy lifetime scroungers of our own creed its them that need kicking out.

 

As said before Rod, no one really beleives in the BNP, theyre just voicing their opinion on things in the only way they can, with a vote!

 

but voting for the bnp will do what lee (and no i know you will vote labour so i'm not going to call you a bnp fagot)

the only line they trot out is that they will put the immigrants back where they came from and nick griffin has had lots of practice in answering the question of what is indeginous population now as that's all that he's been asked about for the past year

i know he's said that the country would save lots of money by not having to pay for them, but then the idea's sort of falter

if he had a wel laid out document that said "we will do this and we will do that and with the money we saved we will make sure you all have a policeman, nurse, fireman, counciler on call 24 hours a day if you need them" then i think even i'd vote for him

but he's basicly saying "get rid of jonny forigner and then we'll see what we can do about the rest of the problems with the country"

the more i think about it the more unelectable anyone is really, so you should be made to vote and at least that way everyone in the country has their say, not those who think it'll make a difference

 

It will do nothing dojj, its just frustrated people who are sick of seeing too many foreigners here isnt it!

 

on one hand:

you work hard and save your money, regardless of where you come from and everything is equal

on the other hand:

you bitch and moan become someone else has come in and done the job you didn't want and is now earning money to keep a roof over their head and buy nice things with

i think the bnp way is the second way, all people need to do is to work and pay taxes and everything else in life levels itself out eventually

 

I am gonna Vote Conservative all the way, this goverment has clean ran out of ideas & energy, the NHS is being Bled dry by health tourists.

Cameron has the energy to take us forward.

We need a change, a cut in business tax to stimulate jobs & the economy, where I work we have been advised that due to the N.I increase that is coming we may need to slim our wage bill down again. So we will have to cut more jobs !

If the economy does not start picking up rapidly, there will be no money for NHS / Schools anyway as the tax take will be far too low. We will end up like greece, we already have an overbloated public sector, which is run like a boys club.

Gordon Brown is a priminister with no mandate , who awarded himself the job.

The only people who are doing well in my area is the illegal immigrants, nice mercedes & nice flats. Whilst I work 60 hours a week to make ends meet.

The quicker he is gone the better.


Time for a fresh start.




2nd choice BNP.

"Because you wouldn't be allowed to build a english church in Baghdad would you ? "

So why do we pander to every other fucker who comes here & thinks they can do what they want !

 

Interestingly, similarly to Dojj I got some leaflets through the door in the last few days. Nothing from the Lib Dems, they don't seem to be fighting too hard here as I don't think they stand much chance of winning.

The two leaflets read pretty much like this in massively edited form.

Conservative - "I want to make the local hospital better, improve public transport and reduce congestion, fight for a fair deal for our local schools and encourage enterprise in our area"

Labour - "Don't vote Tory, they'll fuck you over"

Virtually no policy from the Labour card; just slagging off the tories and a picture of Ross Kemp who they seem to be plastering everywhere at the moment.

With that and all the ridiculous talk yesterday of tactical voting, it appears they have nothing left but desperation and name calling. They deserve to finish third in the popular vote to be honest; their campaign has been awful. Brown managed a quite rousing speech to Citizens UK the other day, but it seems the rest of their campaign is on the verge of falling apart. Candidates coming out openly saying how much they dislike Brown, trying to persuade people to change their vote in the hope they might hang on to power.

Not the kind of people I want in power at all. A hung parliament looks ever likely, but I really can't see any benefit. I don't see that Labour would want to give an inch if they formed a coalition with the Lib Dems.

Tomorrow night could certainly be interesting anyway!

 

I had the lib dems phone me the other day, blabbing on about how they're going to tax the bankers, etc. If you buy that populist drivel you need your head seen to! Same old rubbish in the quest to get votes, nothing to do with turning this country around.

 

unfortunatly no one tends to listen to common sense anymore and they only want what they have been brainwashed into thinking is right for themselves

 

Was in the chippie yesterday(mmm, nice battered chips), anyway, two of the great unwashed walked in. One of em picks up a Conservative freebie leaflet and shows it too his mate. Then asks him if he will vote conservative. You should have seen the look of pure horror on his mates face. He swore rather loudly then explained to the leaflet holder that they should never vote for the Cons cos ' they will tek our dole money wo they, I'm fu++ed if I'm working, at least labour will keep paying us".

Quite a sad indictment of the world we live in. Yes, I know I cannot base my decision solely on this incident, but heaven help us. This is what we have to address.

 

I've just read the bnp policies and tbh if they stick to what they say I think they are right I think they should forget the racist bit as in a White Briton and allow people to stay if the have been here 25 years or more as for the health etc I would abolish the nhs and increase the wage and instead of ni you pay into a health insurance plan which covers your health , hospitals would then become private and would be maintained to a higher standard as there would be compition between each of the hospitals would still get grants etc to keep to standard for emergencys etc

 

mate has just emailed me this reminder of the past 13 years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYFdXiS-wdM

Forgot about mandelson

 

No mate, people are fed up with immigrants who come here and freeload. Not the working ones. People are fed up with how they get in certain areas, take over and turn it into a slum area like they have back home.....