Inlet options on a Zetec engine???
14-04-2010, 10:13 AM
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Inlet options on a Zetec engine???
Hi all - I'm very much a newbie here but some of you may be aware that I've fitted a 2 litre silvertop Zetec into my Reliant SS1 (formerly the home of a 1600CVH). Space is limited in the engine bay on the inlet side of the engine. I realise that twin 45's, with 5 progression holes, work best on the Zetec as flat spots are avoided, or can be eliminated on the rolling road. A set of these carbs have been fitted by at least one other owner (who's done a superb Zetec conversion). Unfortunately the price is way beyond my budget 
& fitting the carbs is not easy due to the previously mentioned space issues
Therefore I was wondering if anyone has ever fitted a pair of downdraught DCNF carbs to a Zetec engine before? I've seen a set of these carbs fitted to a Fiesta & another SS1 (both with the CVH engine) & they seem to work well in both applications. Adaptor plates are available to fit CVH manifolds to the Zetec head so I presume that one of these could be used to make the DCNF's fit? Has anyone any idea if the combination of twin DCNF's & a 2 litre Zetec engine would work?
I've also read a build thread where an owner has fitted a Zetec (1800cc though I think) into his Capri & he's used twin 40 DCOE's (Dell Orto's though not Weber) without any problems. Could this be another possibility for me to consider, though I presume I'd still have the same space issues as if I was using twin 45's?
Also another (possibly) much simpler/cheaper solution would be to use one of the various Zetec manifolds (on eBay) that are for single Weber carbs. I've been in touch with a couple of the manifold manufacturers who say that even though the manifolds are designed with banger racing in mind there's no reason, that they can see, why they couldn't be used on a road car. So that's my next question - has anyone ever tried one of these manifolds on a road car - or even in a banger racer? What was the car like to drive? It's my intention to use a megajolt with whatever carb setup & I presume the Megajolt will work with a single carb??
Sorry for all the questions - any advice/insights/thoughts etc would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
& fitting the carbs is not easy due to the previously mentioned space issues Therefore I was wondering if anyone has ever fitted a pair of downdraught DCNF carbs to a Zetec engine before? I've seen a set of these carbs fitted to a Fiesta & another SS1 (both with the CVH engine) & they seem to work well in both applications. Adaptor plates are available to fit CVH manifolds to the Zetec head so I presume that one of these could be used to make the DCNF's fit? Has anyone any idea if the combination of twin DCNF's & a 2 litre Zetec engine would work?
I've also read a build thread where an owner has fitted a Zetec (1800cc though I think) into his Capri & he's used twin 40 DCOE's (Dell Orto's though not Weber) without any problems. Could this be another possibility for me to consider, though I presume I'd still have the same space issues as if I was using twin 45's?
Also another (possibly) much simpler/cheaper solution would be to use one of the various Zetec manifolds (on eBay) that are for single Weber carbs. I've been in touch with a couple of the manifold manufacturers who say that even though the manifolds are designed with banger racing in mind there's no reason, that they can see, why they couldn't be used on a road car. So that's my next question - has anyone ever tried one of these manifolds on a road car - or even in a banger racer? What was the car like to drive? It's my intention to use a megajolt with whatever carb setup & I presume the Megajolt will work with a single carb??
Sorry for all the questions - any advice/insights/thoughts etc would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Last edited by pauluspaolo; 14-04-2010 at 10:20 AM.
14-04-2010, 11:03 AM
#2
Advanced PassionFord User
Id be building a basic tube plenum and using the standard throttle body and management until I could afford the move to Mtech or other aftermarket ecu.
I see no sense in taking an efficient, reliable modern engine with multiple limp home strategies and excellent fuel consumption and fitting a fuel metering method akin to a grumpy leprechaun with a bucket.
If you do choose to use some 50 year old technology on it, how are you going to manage the ignition? I suspect by the time you pay for an ecu and loom to do that, ignition mapping and carb jetting you'll be 9/10s of the way to the proper solution.
I see no sense in taking an efficient, reliable modern engine with multiple limp home strategies and excellent fuel consumption and fitting a fuel metering method akin to a grumpy leprechaun with a bucket.
If you do choose to use some 50 year old technology on it, how are you going to manage the ignition? I suspect by the time you pay for an ecu and loom to do that, ignition mapping and carb jetting you'll be 9/10s of the way to the proper solution.
14-04-2010, 12:38 PM
#4
PassionFord Post Whore!!
My 190bhp Zetec is on a pair of 45's, why do I want to spend Ł1000-1500 more to put it on injection ?
Pauluspaolo
There are several ways you can go with carb set ups and management.
lets start with the absolute billy basic rock bottom budget install.
You can run a Weber 32/36 Twin Choke Down Draught Carb using an old Ford Crossflow manifold and an adaptor plate from the Banger boys, see e-bay for details.
Basically in Mondeo Bangers you cant run injection, you have to run a carb, so the banger racers have come up with various methods of adapting carbs onto their Zetec and the adaptor plate and Crossflow GT inlet works pretty well.
You can also get an adaptor plate which will adapt a CVH inlet manifold to the Zetec and you can use an XR2 inlet, but you have to do some mods to the inlet to take a weber car.
This works well and a good friend of mine had his Anglia van on the roller at Northampton Motorsport and his scrap yard RS1800 engine made a very respectable 138bhp with a stonking flat torque curve making 100lb/ft at 2500rpm, peaking at 125lb/ft and then at the limiter was still making over 100lb/ft of torque.
BUT taking that thought further, you can use a down draught inlet from an XR2 to run a pair of DCNF Carbs and I have seen a car which will hit the classic ford scene later this year with that very set up on it.
Then you get to ignition, you can do a proper budget thing, which again is done on the bangers and use an ESC (Electronic Spark Control) module from a MkIII Fiesta, looks like an EDIS Module but its not, its basically a distributor in a box, so it has a fairly fixed advance curve. If you use this you MUST connect the water temp sensor as it does alter the ignition when the engine is cold.
The next step form that is to use a MegaJolt Ignition Only ECU
And then from there use something like an OMEX200 or a Weber Alpha Ignition Only set up.
All will work.
Dont waste your time with standard Management and ECU, if you start with a 130bhp engine thats what you'll end up with. Sticking carbs on will give you more power straight out the box.
Infact the single twin choke made more power than the factory set up and it still does around 35 to the gallon on a run.
Pauluspaolo
There are several ways you can go with carb set ups and management.
lets start with the absolute billy basic rock bottom budget install.
You can run a Weber 32/36 Twin Choke Down Draught Carb using an old Ford Crossflow manifold and an adaptor plate from the Banger boys, see e-bay for details.
Basically in Mondeo Bangers you cant run injection, you have to run a carb, so the banger racers have come up with various methods of adapting carbs onto their Zetec and the adaptor plate and Crossflow GT inlet works pretty well.
You can also get an adaptor plate which will adapt a CVH inlet manifold to the Zetec and you can use an XR2 inlet, but you have to do some mods to the inlet to take a weber car.
This works well and a good friend of mine had his Anglia van on the roller at Northampton Motorsport and his scrap yard RS1800 engine made a very respectable 138bhp with a stonking flat torque curve making 100lb/ft at 2500rpm, peaking at 125lb/ft and then at the limiter was still making over 100lb/ft of torque.
BUT taking that thought further, you can use a down draught inlet from an XR2 to run a pair of DCNF Carbs and I have seen a car which will hit the classic ford scene later this year with that very set up on it.
Then you get to ignition, you can do a proper budget thing, which again is done on the bangers and use an ESC (Electronic Spark Control) module from a MkIII Fiesta, looks like an EDIS Module but its not, its basically a distributor in a box, so it has a fairly fixed advance curve. If you use this you MUST connect the water temp sensor as it does alter the ignition when the engine is cold.
The next step form that is to use a MegaJolt Ignition Only ECU
And then from there use something like an OMEX200 or a Weber Alpha Ignition Only set up.
All will work.
Dont waste your time with standard Management and ECU, if you start with a 130bhp engine thats what you'll end up with. Sticking carbs on will give you more power straight out the box.
Infact the single twin choke made more power than the factory set up and it still does around 35 to the gallon on a run.
Last edited by neilm; 14-04-2010 at 12:39 PM.
14-04-2010, 12:47 PM
#5
Advanced PassionFord User
IMHO removing the inlet and replacing it with a proper plenum and changing the exhaust manifold will give you damn nearly as much power as any of the shonky carb setups, beaten only by properly setup 45s.
I don't see how you count a grand extra to fit efi (unless you mean to remove and replace your current setup rather than the position the OP is in)? ignition only ecus aren't that much cheaper than the full fat version, loom is similar again. Manifolds are the same price, throttle bodies are as much as carbs.
When it comes to setup, your ignition map is identical in terms of hours and effort, and properly jetting a set of carbs on the rollers takes as long as making a fuel curve (and by definition can never be as good).
The only way carbs are cheaper is if you dont do them properly, by which I mean secondhand carbs which are probably worn, approximately jetted for the car and balanced by ear, on whatever trumpets came with them as opposed to the correct length, combined with some horrible ignition setup like you describe delivering a worse ignition curve than any distributer (which were never great to start with).
Good carbs cost the same as efi, bad carbs aren't worth having unless the rules dictate IMHO.
I don't see how you count a grand extra to fit efi (unless you mean to remove and replace your current setup rather than the position the OP is in)? ignition only ecus aren't that much cheaper than the full fat version, loom is similar again. Manifolds are the same price, throttle bodies are as much as carbs.
When it comes to setup, your ignition map is identical in terms of hours and effort, and properly jetting a set of carbs on the rollers takes as long as making a fuel curve (and by definition can never be as good).
The only way carbs are cheaper is if you dont do them properly, by which I mean secondhand carbs which are probably worn, approximately jetted for the car and balanced by ear, on whatever trumpets came with them as opposed to the correct length, combined with some horrible ignition setup like you describe delivering a worse ignition curve than any distributer (which were never great to start with).
Good carbs cost the same as efi, bad carbs aren't worth having unless the rules dictate IMHO.
14-04-2010, 01:13 PM
#6
PassionFord Post Whore!!
There is nothing shonky about the Anglia van on the single down draught carb mate, nothing shonky about it at all.
It drives lovely, its quick and will live with me until mine comes up on Cam and then I get the legs on him.
But that was 138bhp on a scrap yard RS1800 motor.
He's just rebuilt it all on a 2.0 bottom end with new head etc and I reckon that will be closer 150 with the raised compression etc.
Right, for me to go from my 45's and OMEX 100 to an injection set up the costs were :-
OMEX600 - Ł650 (Ignition only module was half that)
Injectors Ł 50-60 a piece
Fuel Rail Ł80
Pressure Regulator Ł80
High Pressure Pump & Filter Ł150
Lift Pump & Swirl Pot Ł100
Throttle bodies themselves Ł450
Easily over Ł1000, closer Ł1700
As I said you can run it on a Ł25 box from a breakers and that comes with the coil pack,
Or you can use a Ł100 Megajolt
Or you can use a Ł350 ignition only module
I supplied the owner of the van with a NEW 32/36 Carb and it was Ł179+VAT
You pays your money and takes your chance as the old saying goes, but it can be done for very little money and good results can be had
It drives lovely, its quick and will live with me until mine comes up on Cam and then I get the legs on him.
But that was 138bhp on a scrap yard RS1800 motor.
He's just rebuilt it all on a 2.0 bottom end with new head etc and I reckon that will be closer 150 with the raised compression etc.
Right, for me to go from my 45's and OMEX 100 to an injection set up the costs were :-
OMEX600 - Ł650 (Ignition only module was half that)
Injectors Ł 50-60 a piece
Fuel Rail Ł80
Pressure Regulator Ł80
High Pressure Pump & Filter Ł150
Lift Pump & Swirl Pot Ł100
Throttle bodies themselves Ł450
Easily over Ł1000, closer Ł1700
As I said you can run it on a Ł25 box from a breakers and that comes with the coil pack,
Or you can use a Ł100 Megajolt
Or you can use a Ł350 ignition only module
I supplied the owner of the van with a NEW 32/36 Carb and it was Ł179+VAT
You pays your money and takes your chance as the old saying goes, but it can be done for very little money and good results can be had
14-04-2010, 01:47 PM
#7
Advanced PassionFord User
The Anglia makes the same power as it would on the standard injection and a new exhaust manifold and is less efficient than it would have been then?
As I thought, youre budgeting for buying a TB setup when you already have carbs. Go and add up the cost of your new 45 setup against that of throttle bodies at the point the OP is at (has engine and no inductions setup) and use new prices to keep it fair since thats what youve done with the TBs (good injectors can be had for Ł50 a set for instance and any scrapyard efi pump will suffice for 200bhp.) and you'll very quicly find the cost is almost identical.
You won't build a tested megajolt unit for Ł100 the way the exchange rate etc is now and like i said, the 25 quid box is a bodge and a poor one at that. The new carb is cheap, but once again no better than a standard inlet!
Like I said above, you can do it right, or do it cheap!
As I thought, youre budgeting for buying a TB setup when you already have carbs. Go and add up the cost of your new 45 setup against that of throttle bodies at the point the OP is at (has engine and no inductions setup) and use new prices to keep it fair since thats what youve done with the TBs (good injectors can be had for Ł50 a set for instance and any scrapyard efi pump will suffice for 200bhp.) and you'll very quicly find the cost is almost identical.
You won't build a tested megajolt unit for Ł100 the way the exchange rate etc is now and like i said, the 25 quid box is a bodge and a poor one at that. The new carb is cheap, but once again no better than a standard inlet!
Like I said above, you can do it right, or do it cheap!
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14-04-2010, 02:14 PM
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My 190bhp Zetec is on a pair of 45's, why do I want to spend Ł1000-1500 more to put it on injection ?
Pauluspaolo
There are several ways you can go with carb set ups and management.
lets start with the absolute billy basic rock bottom budget install.
You can run a Weber 32/36 Twin Choke Down Draught Carb using an old Ford Crossflow manifold and an adaptor plate from the Banger boys, see e-bay for details.
Basically in Mondeo Bangers you cant run injection, you have to run a carb, so the banger racers have come up with various methods of adapting carbs onto their Zetec and the adaptor plate and Crossflow GT inlet works pretty well.
You can also get an adaptor plate which will adapt a CVH inlet manifold to the Zetec and you can use an XR2 inlet, but you have to do some mods to the inlet to take a weber car.
This works well and a good friend of mine had his Anglia van on the roller at Northampton Motorsport and his scrap yard RS1800 engine made a very respectable 138bhp with a stonking flat torque curve making 100lb/ft at 2500rpm, peaking at 125lb/ft and then at the limiter was still making over 100lb/ft of torque.
BUT taking that thought further, you can use a down draught inlet from an XR2 to run a pair of DCNF Carbs and I have seen a car which will hit the classic ford scene later this year with that very set up on it.
Then you get to ignition, you can do a proper budget thing, which again is done on the bangers and use an ESC (Electronic Spark Control) module from a MkIII Fiesta, looks like an EDIS Module but its not, its basically a distributor in a box, so it has a fairly fixed advance curve. If you use this you MUST connect the water temp sensor as it does alter the ignition when the engine is cold.
The next step form that is to use a MegaJolt Ignition Only ECU
And then from there use something like an OMEX200 or a Weber Alpha Ignition Only set up.
All will work.
Dont waste your time with standard Management and ECU, if you start with a 130bhp engine thats what you'll end up with. Sticking carbs on will give you more power straight out the box.
Infact the single twin choke made more power than the factory set up and it still does around 35 to the gallon on a run.
Pauluspaolo
There are several ways you can go with carb set ups and management.
lets start with the absolute billy basic rock bottom budget install.
You can run a Weber 32/36 Twin Choke Down Draught Carb using an old Ford Crossflow manifold and an adaptor plate from the Banger boys, see e-bay for details.
Basically in Mondeo Bangers you cant run injection, you have to run a carb, so the banger racers have come up with various methods of adapting carbs onto their Zetec and the adaptor plate and Crossflow GT inlet works pretty well.
You can also get an adaptor plate which will adapt a CVH inlet manifold to the Zetec and you can use an XR2 inlet, but you have to do some mods to the inlet to take a weber car.
This works well and a good friend of mine had his Anglia van on the roller at Northampton Motorsport and his scrap yard RS1800 engine made a very respectable 138bhp with a stonking flat torque curve making 100lb/ft at 2500rpm, peaking at 125lb/ft and then at the limiter was still making over 100lb/ft of torque.
BUT taking that thought further, you can use a down draught inlet from an XR2 to run a pair of DCNF Carbs and I have seen a car which will hit the classic ford scene later this year with that very set up on it.
Then you get to ignition, you can do a proper budget thing, which again is done on the bangers and use an ESC (Electronic Spark Control) module from a MkIII Fiesta, looks like an EDIS Module but its not, its basically a distributor in a box, so it has a fairly fixed advance curve. If you use this you MUST connect the water temp sensor as it does alter the ignition when the engine is cold.
The next step form that is to use a MegaJolt Ignition Only ECU
And then from there use something like an OMEX200 or a Weber Alpha Ignition Only set up.
All will work.
Dont waste your time with standard Management and ECU, if you start with a 130bhp engine thats what you'll end up with. Sticking carbs on will give you more power straight out the box.
Infact the single twin choke made more power than the factory set up and it still does around 35 to the gallon on a run.
!I'd like to keep the car on carb(s) if possible as I'd like to keep it looking period i.e. as if it was put together by Reliant in 1985. As it's probably only going to be run as a second car then economy isn't that much of a concern. I'd like to keep costs down if possible - a set of Jenvey throttle bodies with an Omex ecu would be fantastic but they'd end up costing more (lots more) than the car did to buy! I already have the manifold/carb that came off the original CVH - so if I can use that then so much the better
! I've experimented with the inlet manifold that came off the donor Mondeo & that doesn't fit due to the steering column getting in the way. Similarly I bought an injection manifold - basically a tubular plenum chamber with the Mondeo throttle body mounted at the end of it pointing forwards. This was originally fitted to a Ginetta G20 (using an 1800 Zetec) & this won't fit either because there's not enough room between the engine & inner wing
I've also bought an appallingly bad hybrid Zetec/CVH inlet manifold off ebay. Someone has cut the flange off a Zetec inlet manifold & welded it to a CVH carb manifold - the ports don't line up at all & the welding's poor as well; I doubt that the thing could be used realistically as the flow of air/fuel must be atrocious. As useable manifold it's pretty much useless really & is destined for the skip one day. However it does fit the engine with space to spare so it's been useful for that if nothing else! The Anglia looks absolutely superb (it certainly doesn't look shonky!) & is the sort of look I'm aiming for under the bonnet of the SS1. It's nice to know that twin DCNF's will also work well & they'd make a decent upgrade for the future. If you've got any more info about either the twin DCNF installation or the Anglia then I'm all ears
Many thanks indeed
Last edited by pauluspaolo; 14-04-2010 at 02:28 PM.
14-04-2010, 02:21 PM
#9
Advanced PassionFord User
I'd like to keep the car on carb(s) if possible as I'd like to keep it looking period i.e. as if it was put together by Reliant in 1985. As it's probably only going to be run as a second car then economy isn't that much of a concern. Also I'd like to keep costs down if possible - a set of Jenvey throttle bodies with an Omex ecu would be fantastic but they'd end up costing more (lots more) than the car did to buy! I already have the manifold/carb that came off the original CVH - so if I can use that then so much the better !
!
The Anglia looks absolutely superb (it certainly doesn't look shonky!) & is the sort of look I'm aiming for under the bonnet of the SS1. It's nice to know that twin DCNF's will also work well & they'd make a decent upgrade for the future. If you've got any more info about either the twin DCNF installation or the Anglia then I'm all ears
Many thanks indeed
14-04-2010, 02:25 PM
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An RS1800 engine makes 130hp in the original Fiesta with the cat and stock manifold and exhaust fitted.
Dropping the cat and fitting a decent 4branch manifold like you have done will easily have seen the same power, most likely more, and would have cost less, as the inlet/efi comes with the engine. You dont say what ignition setup the anglia is running either, but you have said you've installed a Ł180 carb, and you've had to buy an adaptor, and the inlet, and fettle it all to work, plus either the shonky fiesta box or a megasquirt/megajolt on top.
The alternative would be to fit the engine and EFI setup complete, and either drop a scrapyard pump into the anglia tank, or use a lift pump and swirl pot feeding the scrapyard pump. You might even get away with using the EFI pump alone if you can mount it below the tank like i did on an old vauxhall i had.
Carbs are restrictive by their very nature, and even on something with huge 45's you either compromise your low/mid range drivability for all out power, or you choke the carb down to get decent low/midrange and your peak power falls away. With EFI that doesnt happen. Your not relying on a hole drilled in a bucket to feed the fuel into the engine, you have a nice ECU injecting the exact quantity of fuel required.
Dropping the cat and fitting a decent 4branch manifold like you have done will easily have seen the same power, most likely more, and would have cost less, as the inlet/efi comes with the engine. You dont say what ignition setup the anglia is running either, but you have said you've installed a Ł180 carb, and you've had to buy an adaptor, and the inlet, and fettle it all to work, plus either the shonky fiesta box or a megasquirt/megajolt on top.
The alternative would be to fit the engine and EFI setup complete, and either drop a scrapyard pump into the anglia tank, or use a lift pump and swirl pot feeding the scrapyard pump. You might even get away with using the EFI pump alone if you can mount it below the tank like i did on an old vauxhall i had.
Carbs are restrictive by their very nature, and even on something with huge 45's you either compromise your low/mid range drivability for all out power, or you choke the carb down to get decent low/midrange and your peak power falls away. With EFI that doesnt happen. Your not relying on a hole drilled in a bucket to feed the fuel into the engine, you have a nice ECU injecting the exact quantity of fuel required.
14-04-2010, 02:36 PM
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I'd like to keep the car on carb(s) if possible as I'd like to keep it looking period i.e. as if it was put together by Reliant in 1985. As it's probably only going to be run as a second car then economy isn't that much of a concern. Also I'd like to keep costs down if possible - a set of Jenvey throttle bodies with an Omex ecu would be fantastic but they'd end up costing more (lots more) than the car did to buy! I already have the manifold/carb that came off the original CVH - so if I can use that then so much the better !
!Also bear in mind that 1985 isnt exactly pre-efi. You had quite a few Injected engines back then making it into normal everyday cars, the Golf 16v was released in '86, and cosworths YB was also first sold in '86, and many others around the same time. I dont really see the period argument applies here.
Sounds more like "The Fear" of scary electronics to me.
14-04-2010, 02:37 PM
#12
PassionFord Post Troll
i cant see a problem with the set up as in the anglia at all 
and it looks fantastic
only thing i have heard is that if you use the mk3 fiesta module thing the car doesnt run perfectly on part throttle but full throttle is excellent on them
if space is an issue the only way i can see twin 40/45s fitting is if you use a very short trumpet, but this will loose torque, and wouldnt be a good idea at all, unless you cut the inner wing for the airfilter to sit in or didnt use an air filter (not sure if you mean the carbs wont fit or carbs and airfilter wont fit!?) but again thats not advisable in a road car
and it looks fantastic only thing i have heard is that if you use the mk3 fiesta module thing the car doesnt run perfectly on part throttle but full throttle is excellent on them
if space is an issue the only way i can see twin 40/45s fitting is if you use a very short trumpet, but this will loose torque, and wouldnt be a good idea at all, unless you cut the inner wing for the airfilter to sit in or didnt use an air filter (not sure if you mean the carbs wont fit or carbs and airfilter wont fit!?) but again thats not advisable in a road car
14-04-2010, 06:46 PM
#13
PassionFord Post Whore!!
My Anglia on the 45's will do well over 33mpg to the gallon on a run and the Anglia van on the single down draught carb regularly sees 35mpg+ on a run.
Just how much better would injection have to be to make it worth while going for ?
The van with the single carb on it is running Megajolt in 2D mode as there was an issue with the TPS.
He has recently bought a replacement Megajolt from the states, assembled and it was Ł125 delivered.
The ESC Module from the Fiesta was good enough for a production car and I drove Dave Colledges development escort years ago that had that set up on it and it went really well.
The key is connecting the water temp sensor, if you dont it knocks the ignition back.
Personally I can see no benefit in fitting the standard efi set up, it looks pants and it doesnt make any more power than it would in a standard car.
OK you can get it chipped, but that costs a decent amount of money.
Pauluspaolo
I met a fella with a Ginnetta which looks a very similar vintage to your Reliant and he had cast his own inlet manifold which to be honest could have been machined out of billet, but he was an old pattern maker so he just knocked himself one up. This allowed him to get the carbs nice and close to the head, which gave a very crisp throttle response and kept everything out of the way of inner wings etc.
Just how much better would injection have to be to make it worth while going for ?
The van with the single carb on it is running Megajolt in 2D mode as there was an issue with the TPS.
He has recently bought a replacement Megajolt from the states, assembled and it was Ł125 delivered.
The ESC Module from the Fiesta was good enough for a production car and I drove Dave Colledges development escort years ago that had that set up on it and it went really well.
The key is connecting the water temp sensor, if you dont it knocks the ignition back.
Personally I can see no benefit in fitting the standard efi set up, it looks pants and it doesnt make any more power than it would in a standard car.
OK you can get it chipped, but that costs a decent amount of money.
Pauluspaolo
I met a fella with a Ginnetta which looks a very similar vintage to your Reliant and he had cast his own inlet manifold which to be honest could have been machined out of billet, but he was an old pattern maker so he just knocked himself one up. This allowed him to get the carbs nice and close to the head, which gave a very crisp throttle response and kept everything out of the way of inner wings etc.
14-04-2010, 06:48 PM
#14
PassionFord Post Whore!!
I dont think so.
But thats what it is
14-04-2010, 09:00 PM
#15
PassionFord Post Troll
it looks like an early twin cam with that rocker cover on, looks origenal (i really wish i could spell 
), like an advanced engine in that same car, lotus cortina sort of thing if you get me.....
even more so if it used the carb set up like the other car you posted
), like an advanced engine in that same car, lotus cortina sort of thing if you get me.....even more so if it used the carb set up like the other car you posted
14-04-2010, 09:41 PM
#16
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Eh ? Lotus Cortinas have a pair of side draughts as standard mate. The car with the 45's on it is mine and its in an Anglia saloon.
The car with the single carb and the silvertop cover painted black is in the Anglia van
The car with the single carb and the silvertop cover painted black is in the Anglia van
14-04-2010, 11:04 PM
#17
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
www.locostbuilders.co.uk
get yourself a inlet manifold to suit bike carbs the zetecs run great on them loads of info on LCB forum as many of the guys there running same setup
you should see 160bhp on a healthy 2.0 zetec on bike carbs they are the poor mans webers
megajolt, edis 4 would be needed too for this too.
looks like you bought one of the griffin efi inlets (one from the ginetta) not heard anything good about them tbh
get yourself a inlet manifold to suit bike carbs the zetecs run great on them loads of info on LCB forum as many of the guys there running same setup
you should see 160bhp on a healthy 2.0 zetec on bike carbs they are the poor mans webers
megajolt, edis 4 would be needed too for this too.
looks like you bought one of the griffin efi inlets (one from the ginetta) not heard anything good about them tbh
Last edited by Dlatch!; 14-04-2010 at 11:08 PM.
15-04-2010, 07:27 AM
#18
Advanced PassionFord User
The ESC Module from the Fiesta was good enough for a production car and I drove Dave Colledges development escort years ago that had that set up on it and it went really well.
Personally I can see no benefit in fitting the standard efi set up, it looks pants and it doesnt make any more power than it would in a standard car.
OK you can get it chipped, but that costs a decent amount of money.
OK you can get it chipped, but that costs a decent amount of money.
15-04-2010, 11:54 AM
#19
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As I've previously said the standard injection manifold (from the Mondeo) doesn't fit in the Reliant due to the steering column obstructing it. I already have a carb & manifold from the Reliant (not sure which one but it's a twin choke downdraught Weber from an XR2 I think) so it makes sense (to me) to use that - it makes even more sense if I can get 138bhp from it ...... which is the same amount of power as the fuel injected & turbocharged Nissan Silvia powered SS1's (called the 1800ti) were making!
I've had the Reliant for nearly 2 years now & for most of that time it's been sat in my garage in bits. I haven't worked on the car constantly, & I haven't set myself any deadlines for it either, but I'm now at the stage where I'd just like to get the car finished so that I can finally enjoy driving it. It's a pretty light car so with 130 - 140bhp on a single carb it should perform well enough for me. I doubt the car will ever truly be finished though so I can always upgrade to twin carbs, or injection, later on.
Thanks for all your advice
I've had the Reliant for nearly 2 years now & for most of that time it's been sat in my garage in bits. I haven't worked on the car constantly, & I haven't set myself any deadlines for it either, but I'm now at the stage where I'd just like to get the car finished so that I can finally enjoy driving it. It's a pretty light car so with 130 - 140bhp on a single carb it should perform well enough for me. I doubt the car will ever truly be finished though so I can always upgrade to twin carbs, or injection, later on.
Thanks for all your advice
Last edited by pauluspaolo; 15-04-2010 at 12:02 PM.
15-04-2010, 05:19 PM
#20
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Pair of 45's on e-bay (Item No 350340814854) Ł520 delivered
Inlet Manifold for Zetec on ebay (250613430811) Ł95 delivered
Weber Throttle Linkage Ł 65
Weber TPS & Mounting Kit Ł85
Omex 200 Ł350
Total Price Ł1,115
To go injection
OMEX600 - Ł650 (Ignition only module was half that)
Injectors Ł 50-60 a piece
Fuel Rail Ł80
Pressure Regulator Ł80
High Pressure Pump & Filter Ł150
Lift Pump & Swirl Pot Ł100
Throttle bodies themselves Ł450
Inlet Manifold Ł95
Total Cost Ł1805
Almost Ł700 difference, so hardly the same cost
PaulusPaulos stated he wanted a solution to get his Zetec up and running, he also stated his budget was limited.
All I have done is spelled out to him all his options when it comes to budget, from the lowest common denominator of the ESC Module, which will work, the engine does run and it drives pretty well, ok its not mapped ignition, but it works.
All you have done is banged on about how carbs are shit and cost the same as injection, well as someone who drives a Zetec on carbs all the time I can assure you they are not shit at all and as I have illustrated how its clearly much more expensive to go injection.
15-04-2010, 09:28 PM
#21
Advanced PassionFord User
Oh dear god!
To spell out the points I've made plainly:
1) The cheapest option is keeping the standard injection, if you're in any way handy its free.
2) I wouldnt choose carbs unless there is some specific reason for doing so, in this case period looks. I think the anglia looks great, I said so above. If this is whats needed for the project than its the obvious choice and the information is in this thread
3) If youre ignoring the options of a plenum intake with a single tb or a single carb on runners then starting with a bare engine I'd never choose 45s over TBs as the cost is the same however you choose to mock it up. Your price for injectors is mental, as is the fuel pump and filter, ecu etc! Either base both on new prices, or on secondhand, but for a 190bhp TB zetec its more like:
To go injection
Mtech V4 - Ł450 (Ignition only module was half that)
Injectors Ł 20 quid a set + 40 cleaning = 60
Fuel Rail Ł80
Pressure Regulator (cossie webber) Ł25
High Pressure Pump & Filter (vauxhall cavalier external and generic factors metal cased filter) Ł25
Lift Pump & Swirl Pot (personally wouldnt bother, just avoid running it on fumes).
Throttle bodies themselves Ł450
Inlet Manifold Ł95
Total Cost Ł1185
And that's ignoring bike tbs as that wouldnt be fair with you budgeting for webbers over bike carbs!!
PS, whats supplying fuel to your carbs? you just removed the old block with the mech injection pump attached.....
To spell out the points I've made plainly:
1) The cheapest option is keeping the standard injection, if you're in any way handy its free.
2) I wouldnt choose carbs unless there is some specific reason for doing so, in this case period looks. I think the anglia looks great, I said so above. If this is whats needed for the project than its the obvious choice and the information is in this thread
3) If youre ignoring the options of a plenum intake with a single tb or a single carb on runners then starting with a bare engine I'd never choose 45s over TBs as the cost is the same however you choose to mock it up. Your price for injectors is mental, as is the fuel pump and filter, ecu etc! Either base both on new prices, or on secondhand, but for a 190bhp TB zetec its more like:
To go injection
Mtech V4 - Ł450 (Ignition only module was half that)
Injectors Ł 20 quid a set + 40 cleaning = 60
Fuel Rail Ł80
Pressure Regulator (cossie webber) Ł25
High Pressure Pump & Filter (vauxhall cavalier external and generic factors metal cased filter) Ł25
Lift Pump & Swirl Pot (personally wouldnt bother, just avoid running it on fumes).
Throttle bodies themselves Ł450
Inlet Manifold Ł95
Total Cost Ł1185
And that's ignoring bike tbs as that wouldnt be fair with you budgeting for webbers over bike carbs!!
PS, whats supplying fuel to your carbs? you just removed the old block with the mech injection pump attached.....
Last edited by alistairolsen; 15-04-2010 at 09:50 PM.
22-07-2010, 11:17 PM
#22
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Alistair, where are you proposing to buy a pair of (twin-choke) throttle bodies from, for the sum of Ł450?
What air filters would you recomend using with these?
I am currently looking at fitting a Zetec to a Westfield on a limited budget. This is 1988 car, but it has never been registered and therefore will have to go for IVA. This means it will probably have to have a cat fitted.
Regards
Jon
What air filters would you recomend using with these?
I am currently looking at fitting a Zetec to a Westfield on a limited budget. This is 1988 car, but it has never been registered and therefore will have to go for IVA. This means it will probably have to have a cat fitted.
Regards
Jon
23-07-2010, 09:47 AM
#23
Advanced PassionFord User
you can semi regularly pick up second hand jenveys for around that, IIRC they are 650-700 new last time I looked. I counted them in the comparison as I was comparing against webbers but in all honesty Id be doing bike TB's on a far more pikey budget.
Anyway, my looms done and the engine runs nicely on its original efi
Anyway, my looms done and the engine runs nicely on its original efi
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