The next big thing for cossies/YB engine ?
#41
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The trouble with running COP wasted spark is you are of course doubling the amount of work done by each COP, and with them already prone to failure in lots of instalations when running big rpm, thats obviously the last thing you want to do.
Given that the L8 is already sequential for fuelling and has the phase and crank sensor required accordingly I am sure it was pretty minimal extra effort to run it sequential, just a case of physically needing a couple more wires that makes it more difficult from a plug and play point of view as you must be running out now on the standard loom plug!
Given that the L8 is already sequential for fuelling and has the phase and crank sensor required accordingly I am sure it was pretty minimal extra effort to run it sequential, just a case of physically needing a couple more wires that makes it more difficult from a plug and play point of view as you must be running out now on the standard loom plug!
#42
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
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The easiest way around this is to do what pectel have been doing for years and run an external 4 way CPC plug out of the ecu directly, this means no extra pins are used in the ECU, as you've pointed out on a fully loaded car, there just arent enough pins in the 35 connector to run another 2 output for sequential on a car with 8 injectors, and still maintaining the diagnostic outputs, althought it would free up 1 pin using the COP setup as you would no longer need the tacho driver from the wasted spark board as the signal could once again be taken from the coil like factory.
Ultimately it just makes more sense to fit an autronic or similar IMHO rather than keep hanging on more and more extra bits of random electronics off the end of a 20 year old ecu with the costs keep going up and up but still no more resolution on the tables etc and still no live mapping easily from a laptop without an emulator.
I can see why it makes sense for a company like MSD as it ties customers to them, but as someone interested in tuning my car myself its of far less interest.
At least with the RP labs setup, it changes it so you can use (very good IMHO) software to live update it.
Last edited by Chip; 24-03-2010 at 09:41 AM.
#43
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Is this going to be one of those threads where you slowly reveal your idea and promise to give it away free and then claim you are being victomised by Stu and pull it off the sight ??
Mike
Mike
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with regards to variable cam timing it might be possible to fit a second tensioner on the outside of the vertical belt run and a third on top between the cam wheels, moving them with actuators. keeping the belt under tension might be tricky and some development of the required electronics would still be needed.
as with most things neccesity is the fuel of development and its easier and cheper to just buy an ls V8!
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The trouble with running COP wasted spark is you are of course doubling the amount of work done by each COP, and with them already prone to failure in lots of instalations when running big rpm, thats obviously the last thing you want to do.
Given that the L8 is already sequential for fuelling and has the phase and crank sensor required accordingly I am sure it was pretty minimal extra effort to run it sequential, just a case of physically needing a couple more wires that makes it more difficult from a plug and play point of view as you must be running out now on the standard loom plug!
Given that the L8 is already sequential for fuelling and has the phase and crank sensor required accordingly I am sure it was pretty minimal extra effort to run it sequential, just a case of physically needing a couple more wires that makes it more difficult from a plug and play point of view as you must be running out now on the standard loom plug!
I have actually thought about that when I first designed that product and added extras into the software for future use.
There are several unused pins on the CPU chip on the board that when linked give different dwell strategies.
As for you simple comment of adding a few wires to make it sequential, I assure you its a bit more complex than that..LOL
I always enjpoyed the engineering part of product design and its nice to do things at my own pace without whinging cutomers..LOL.
I have learned that idiots like yourself dont actually appreciate the time and effort that goes into creating something that was in the end genuinely free.
Perhaps its jealousy that I am able to do these things and you cant ???
Its a shame, as its people like you that spoil for those genuine enthusiasts here that like the technical stuff.
Oh and FYI, its "site" not "sight"
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 24-03-2010 at 12:13 PM.
#49
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As thats obvious of course what im getting at though is the ecu already understands the concept of all 4 phases, so its not like you are trying to retrofit it to the renix on my clio which doesnt have a cam sensor for example!
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Chip,
Of course the software knows which phase it is on but its all well sending data out a cpu without an interface to the real world hence my "not as simple" comment.
You cannot just attach a wire to a spare pin on an I/O port and hope and pray its gonna work .. LOL
Any engineer experienced in digital hardware design would know that !
Of course the software knows which phase it is on but its all well sending data out a cpu without an interface to the real world hence my "not as simple" comment.
You cannot just attach a wire to a spare pin on an I/O port and hope and pray its gonna work .. LOL
Any engineer experienced in digital hardware design would know that !
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 24-03-2010 at 12:35 PM.
#53
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Chip,
Of course the software knows which phase it is on but its all well sending data out a cpu without an interface to the real world hence my "not as simple" comment.
You cannot just attach a wire to a spare pin on an I/O port and hope and pray its gonna work .. LOL
Any engineer experienced in digital hardware design would know that !
Of course the software knows which phase it is on but its all well sending data out a cpu without an interface to the real world hence my "not as simple" comment.
You cannot just attach a wire to a spare pin on an I/O port and hope and pray its gonna work .. LOL
Any engineer experienced in digital hardware design would know that !
The board that you have at the moment for the MSD setup, already picks up when the standard ecu wants a pulse, and then from the current phase knows which of the 2 coipack control pins need firing, what im saying is that further changes to the ecu itself dont need doing (other than mapping stuff like a new dwell time), merely to your board which will have the extra wires hanging off of it and instead of deciding which wire to fire out of 2 based on phase it will need to decide which wire based on 4 instead, its further development but its not rocket science!
#54
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Not at all !
I have learned that idiots like yourself dont actually appreciate the time and effort that goes into creating something that was in the end genuinely free.
Perhaps its jealousy that I am able to do these things and you cant ???
Its a shame, as its people like you that spoil for those genuine enthusiasts here that like the technical stuff.
Oh and FYI, its "site" not "sight" [/quote]
Simon, l am not the jealous type, l strongly doubt you can dock a 210ft yacht with a few feet at either end to play with in a strong wind, this is probably because we all have our own talents and yours is not driving boats and mine is not creating technical items for cars.
I understand what is involved in computer programming to a degree as l am having some done for the yacht l work on, the changes required are time consuming and a pain so please dont assume l am ignorant.
If my spelling was half as bad as your customer service l would start to worry, until then l forgive myself the odd slip on the keyboard. I would suggest though that your grammer is not perfect so please do becareful throwing stones from the glass house of yours...
Mike
I have learned that idiots like yourself dont actually appreciate the time and effort that goes into creating something that was in the end genuinely free.
Perhaps its jealousy that I am able to do these things and you cant ???
Its a shame, as its people like you that spoil for those genuine enthusiasts here that like the technical stuff.
Oh and FYI, its "site" not "sight" [/quote]
Simon, l am not the jealous type, l strongly doubt you can dock a 210ft yacht with a few feet at either end to play with in a strong wind, this is probably because we all have our own talents and yours is not driving boats and mine is not creating technical items for cars.
I understand what is involved in computer programming to a degree as l am having some done for the yacht l work on, the changes required are time consuming and a pain so please dont assume l am ignorant.
If my spelling was half as bad as your customer service l would start to worry, until then l forgive myself the odd slip on the keyboard. I would suggest though that your grammer is not perfect so please do becareful throwing stones from the glass house of yours...
Mike
#55
formerly beefy-rst-2
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cleaner functional look to the bay chip doing away with the dizzy anyway ,and running a diva cam sensor
but tbh mate as you said it looks cool thats the main reason i admit in a vain poser lol
thats basically it , and well seeing as i have to have a loom made anyway and i got the cover at a good price
why not ??
sure you didnt need a good reason to paint your 3 dr yellow when any of the standard colours were up to the job ?
beef
#58
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Beefy, im not picking fault at you mate, I just wondered what you reason was as without knowing what you are trying to achieve and why, how can anyone advise you on the best way to do so?
If its purely for the looks of it, then it might be worth attemping to run it off of one of Stu's wasted spark setups as I suspect it will satisfy what you are after.
If its purely for the looks of it, then it might be worth attemping to run it off of one of Stu's wasted spark setups as I suspect it will satisfy what you are after.
#59
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Originally Posted by Chip
Dont be silly simon, im well aware of that, I have got commerical experience in the SCADA field myself dont forget.
Look here as you are obviously VERY confused ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCADA
FYI, I have spent the last 5 years designing, installing, SCADA and PLC based systems for 7 water autorities so am fully versed on it.
You clearly have no idea on the final details of electronic design so dont try and blag that you do !
Originally Posted by Chip
The board that you have at the moment for the MSD setup, already picks up when the standard ecu wants a pulse, and then from the current phase knows which of the 2 coipack control pins need firing, what im saying is that further changes to the ecu itself dont need doing (other than mapping stuff like a new dwell time), merely to your board which will have the extra wires hanging off of it and instead of deciding which wire to fire out of 2 based on phase it will need to decide which wire based on 4 instead, its further development but its not rocket science!
It isnt rocket science but you fail to grasp that it isnt a simple case of adding a few wires as you have stated - I should know, I designed the bloody thing ..you didnt !!
It will need 2 more voltage amplification and isolation interfaces..not as simple as adding a few wires like you have stated but simple-ish for someone who understands digitil circuit design and analog interfacing.
I never said the ecu needs modifying either.. only the driver board.
Please stop twisting my words to make yourself look good at my expense yet again !
If you are going to quote technologies like SCADA at me, at least have the decency to google what it means first and understand it.
Originally Posted by MikeR
Simon, l am not the jealous type, l strongly doubt you can dock a 210ft yacht with a few feet at either end to play with in a strong wind, this is probably because we all have our own talents and yours is not driving boats and mine is not creating technical items for cars.
I understand what is involved in computer programming to a degree as l am having some done for the yacht l work on, the changes required are time consuming and a pain so please dont assume l am ignorant.
If my spelling was half as bad as your customer service l would start to worry, until then l forgive myself the odd slip on the keyboard. I would suggest though that your grammer is not perfect so please do becareful throwing stones from the glass house of yours...
Mike
I understand what is involved in computer programming to a degree as l am having some done for the yacht l work on, the changes required are time consuming and a pain so please dont assume l am ignorant.
If my spelling was half as bad as your customer service l would start to worry, until then l forgive myself the odd slip on the keyboard. I would suggest though that your grammer is not perfect so please do becareful throwing stones from the glass house of yours...
Mike
You are just another PF keyboard warrior as I havent traded for over 5 years and no longer have customers yet the customer service issue is mentioned again ! !
Get a life .. YOUR OWN ...Fucking yawn.....
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 24-03-2010 at 04:23 PM.
#61
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Look here as you are obviously VERY confused ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCADA
FYI, I have spent the last 5 years designing, installing, SCADA and PLC based systems for 7 water autorities so am fully versed on it.
FYI, I have spent the last 5 years designing, installing, SCADA and PLC based systems for 7 water autorities so am fully versed on it.
I suspect your work involved some of my old clients then as the water industry is a small one and thats actually one of the fields ive also worked in, along with building mangement systems and oil and gas distribution.
It isnt rocket science but you fail to grasp that it isnt a simple case of adding a few wires as you have stated - I should know, I designed the bloody thing ..you didnt !!
It will need 2 more voltage amplification and isolation interfaces..not as simple as adding a few wires like you have stated but simple-ish for someone who understands digitil circuit design and analog interfacing.
It will need 2 more voltage amplification and isolation interfaces..not as simple as adding a few wires like you have stated but simple-ish for someone who understands digitil circuit design and analog interfacing.
The only change that the USER would need to perform though, is to connect the extra couple of wires.
I never said the ecu needs modifying either.. only the driver board.
The daughter board is simply distributing the existing output to the relevent channel, and its deciding which channel to send it to by looking at the phase sensor, as you have already done this part to decide which of a pair to send it to, it would be very simple to decide which of 4 instead.
Please stop twisting my words to make yourself look good at my expense yet again !
If you are going to quote technologies like SCADA at me, at least have the decency to google what it means first and understand it.
If you are going to quote technologies like SCADA at me, at least have the decency to google what it means first and understand it.
With regards to your comments claiming I have made out to be an electronics expert, that actually isnt the case at all, I have never said any such thing my own area of expertise is control software, rather than the hardware, but for an application as simple as this one, I have a good enough understanding of the hardware too to know what is involved, much like your expertise is hardware but you have demonstrated a basic understanding of software too, you can never be genuinely good at one without understanding a bit about the other. but for the record no I havent ever claimed to be an electronics expert, but something as simple as the change to your 2 channel system to make it 4 channel doesnt require one, as the hard work (interpreting the phase sensor data) has already been done.
I actually am very confident I could develop your 2 channel system into a 4 channel one if given access to all relevant hardware designs and software, which is why im commenting, because the bit im commenting on is the bit I understand, the more difficult job of getting to the stage you are at already to create the 2 channel system, isnt something I would have the expertise to do without needing a lot of research.
Last edited by Chip; 24-03-2010 at 04:48 PM.
#64
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And with the 15V fuel pump idea where is it magically going to create this electricity from if the alternator has failed/is dying and the battery is dying also? Last time I studied physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed so where is this magic electricity coming from? What is the principle of the Accuvolt system?
#65
formerly beefy-rst-2
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Beefy, im not picking fault at you mate, I just wondered what you reason was as without knowing what you are trying to achieve and why, how can anyone advise you on the best way to do so?
If its purely for the looks of it, then it might be worth attemping to run it off of one of Stu's wasted spark setups as I suspect it will satisfy what you are after.
If its purely for the looks of it, then it might be worth attemping to run it off of one of Stu's wasted spark setups as I suspect it will satisfy what you are after.
totally understand where your coming from there chipper ,
but it was a case of i want to make the mk three a little diffrrent and running coil on plug adds a little to the spec after all
regards stus wasted spark affair my issue was regards how would i go about a loom being constructed , would ryan need specific spec of coils ect, and with the issue of running a possible 8 injector setup , als , lc ect would it be just eaiser as you said eairler to go for a newer ecu ?
i have no issue going l8 if it will do the above
but what would work out cheaper in the long run , obv if i bought a 2 hand l8 with the als ,lc features on it , it wouldnt be an expensive step to get the rest
beef
Last edited by -beefy-; 24-03-2010 at 04:50 PM.
#66
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
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And with the 15V fuel pump idea where is it magically going to create this electricity from if the alternator has failed/is dying and the battery is dying also? Last time I studied physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed so where is this magic electricity coming from? What is the principle of the Accuvolt system?
The point you run out, you still run out (slightly sooner in fact as the accuvolt isnt 100% efficient), but on the point leading up to that where the voltage would have tailed off, it no longer does.
#67
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Somebody please find a cure for the battery life on a cossie!! why do they die once parked for a week?
its driving me mad!! my friend left his fiesta for 2months in the winter and it still started!! ive got my fingers crossed after leaving it parked for 4 days!!
its driving me mad!! my friend left his fiesta for 2months in the winter and it still started!! ive got my fingers crossed after leaving it parked for 4 days!!
#68
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
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totally understand where your coming from there chipper ,
but it was a case of i want to make the mk three a little diffrrent and running coil on plug adds a little to the spec after all
regards stus wasted spark affair my issue was regards how would i go about a loom being constructed , would ryan need specific spec of coils ect, and with the issue of running a possible 8 injector setup , als , lc ect would it be just eaiser as you said eairler to go for a newer ecu ?
i have no issue going l8 if it will do the above
but what would work out cheaper in the long run , obv if i bought a 2 hand l8 with the als ,lc features on it , it wouldnt be an expensive step to get the rest
beef
but it was a case of i want to make the mk three a little diffrrent and running coil on plug adds a little to the spec after all
regards stus wasted spark affair my issue was regards how would i go about a loom being constructed , would ryan need specific spec of coils ect, and with the issue of running a possible 8 injector setup , als , lc ect would it be just eaiser as you said eairler to go for a newer ecu ?
i have no issue going l8 if it will do the above
but what would work out cheaper in the long run , obv if i bought a 2 hand l8 with the als ,lc features on it , it wouldnt be an expensive step to get the rest
beef
The coil on plug needs a positive and a negative like most coilpacks do, and then needs a trigger wire to tell it to fire.
The trigger is just a drop to earth I expect (ive very little personal experience of COP) so it would simply be a matter of connecting the first output to the trigger input of both 1 and 4 cylinders COP units and the 2nd output to both 2 and 3 cylinders.
Be aware that the dwell times will probably be different to the fiesta coilpack though so the map would need altering if you just tried to use an off the shelf chip for a WS setup from MSD etc, im sure Stu could easily do that for you though.
With regards to the cost, it will be more expensive than aftermarket by the time you factor in the cost of the ALS / LC / WS upgrades to the L8, and you will also have less flexibility after in terms of who maps it.
#70
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Chip,
I am amazed you are comparing adding a few wires to SCADA systems and saying they are the same
Face facts, you have been caught out blagging an attempt to belittle me once again using terms you thought only yourself would understand.
I am sure anyone reading the web page on the link I post and looking at this discussion will see this for themselves.
If you think I know nothing about how a product I designed 100% works then you are either stupid or blatently trying to sir up trouble yet again.
I am amazed you are comparing adding a few wires to SCADA systems and saying they are the same
Face facts, you have been caught out blagging an attempt to belittle me once again using terms you thought only yourself would understand.
I am sure anyone reading the web page on the link I post and looking at this discussion will see this for themselves.
If you think I know nothing about how a product I designed 100% works then you are either stupid or blatently trying to sir up trouble yet again.
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chip hasnt got a clue, coilonplug+heat=fail, it's spelt 'houdini', its in the post, kosman postal services, my gran died again, n95 8 injector conversion, rip off merchant, rod driving his car, secs = postal strike, secs ecu, secspopular...not., simon does a hoodinni, simon is thief, still waiting mongloid, that t66 must blow, the dog ate it, who fucking cares