Ryan

The easiest way around this is to do what pectel have been doing for years and run an external 4 way CPC plug out of the ecu directly, this means no extra pins are used in the ECU, as you've pointed out on a fully loaded car, there just arent enough pins in the 35 connector to run another 2 output for sequential on a car with 8 injectors, and still maintaining the diagnostic outputs, althought it would free up 1 pin using the COP setup as you would no longer need the tacho driver from the wasted spark board as the signal could once again be taken from the coil like factory.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well yes of course, if you run out of pins you just add some more, but obviously then people have to start hacking up their case to do so, certainly wouldnt put me off as I dont care about things looking original or being a direct fit but might put some others off.

Ultimately it just makes more sense to fit an autronic or similar IMHO rather than keep hanging on more and more extra bits of random electronics off the end of a 20 year old ecu with the costs keep going up and up but still no more resolution on the tables etc and still no live mapping easily from a laptop without an emulator.

I can see why it makes sense for a company like MSD as it ties customers to them, but as someone interested in tuning my car myself its of far less interest.

At least with the RP labs setup, it changes it so you can use (very good IMHO) software to live update it.

MikeR

Is this going to be one of those threads where you slowly reveal your idea and promise to give it away free and then claim you are being victomised by Stu and pull it off the sight ??

Mike

Chip

iTrader: (3)

20/20 vision

i've tried running these COP's too, they're off a Toyota Yaris and work well. i'm not sure if they can be run in wasted spark mode on L8 though (using the MSD board) due to dwell issues although having internal ignitors they are simple to run and likley work with any other ecu. Also, as chip pointed out this would entail heating them up on the wasted spark fire.

with regards to variable cam timing it might be possible to fit a second tensioner on the outside of the vertical belt run and a third on top between the cam wheels, moving them with actuators. keeping the belt under tension might be tricky and some development of the required electronics would still be needed.

as with most things neccesity is the fuel of development and its easier and cheper to just buy an ls V8!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

What do you perceive as the benefits to YOU of going COP mate?

Or is it just a case of you came across a cam cover cheap so now want to use it cause it looks cool?

cozmeister

iTrader: (1)

I like this statement.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Actually chip, you do have a point there if using the standard driver board BUT...
I have actually thought about that when I first designed that product and added extras into the software for future use.
There are several unused pins on the CPU chip on the board that when linked give different dwell strategies.

As for you simple comment of adding a few wires to make it sequential, I assure you its a bit more complex than that..LOL



Thanks but anything I do now will be for my own car and maybe for a few mates.
I always enjpoyed the engineering part of product design and its nice to do things at my own pace without whinging cutomers..LOL.


Not at all !
I have learned that idiots like yourself dont actually appreciate the time and effort that goes into creating something that was in the end genuinely free.
Perhaps its jealousy that I am able to do these things and you cant ???
Its a shame, as its people like you that spoil for those genuine enthusiasts here that like the technical stuff.

Oh and FYI, its "site" not "sight"

Chip

iTrader: (3)

By more complex, do you mean that the software then also has to decide which wire to send each of the 4 pulses down?
As thats obvious of course what im getting at though is the ecu already understands the concept of all 4 phases, so its not like you are trying to retrofit it to the renix on my clio which doesnt have a cam sensor for example!

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Chip,
Of course the software knows which phase it is on but its all well sending data out a cpu without an interface to the real world hence my "not as simple" comment.
You cannot just attach a wire to a spare pin on an I/O port and hope and pray its gonna work .. LOL
Any engineer experienced in digital hardware design would know that !

Ima Racing

iTrader: (1)

V10 N/A is where its at TBH

..nah i love the YB, even an idiot like me an build one! I dont feel going any further as has been said is worthwhile....

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Phil, I understand your sentiments !!

Its a shame the YB V8 project was a hoax ..LOL

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dont be silly simon, im well aware of that, I have got commerical experience in the SCADA field myself dont forget.

The board that you have at the moment for the MSD setup, already picks up when the standard ecu wants a pulse, and then from the current phase knows which of the 2 coipack control pins need firing, what im saying is that further changes to the ecu itself dont need doing (other than mapping stuff like a new dwell time), merely to your board which will have the extra wires hanging off of it and instead of deciding which wire to fire out of 2 based on phase it will need to decide which wire based on 4 instead, its further development but its not rocket science!

MikeR

Not at all !
I have learned that idiots like yourself dont actually appreciate the time and effort that goes into creating something that was in the end genuinely free.
Perhaps its jealousy that I am able to do these things and you cant ???
Its a shame, as its people like you that spoil for those genuine enthusiasts here that like the technical stuff.

Oh and FYI, its "site" not "sight" [/quote]

Simon, l am not the jealous type, l strongly doubt you can dock a 210ft yacht with a few feet at either end to play with in a strong wind, this is probably because we all have our own talents and yours is not driving boats and mine is not creating technical items for cars.

I understand what is involved in computer programming to a degree as l am having some done for the yacht l work on, the changes required are time consuming and a pain so please dont assume l am ignorant.

If my spelling was half as bad as your customer service l would start to worry, until then l forgive myself the odd slip on the keyboard. I would suggest though that your grammer is not perfect so please do becareful throwing stones from the glass house of yours...

Mike

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

cleaner functional look to the bay chip doing away with the dizzy anyway ,and running a diva cam sensor


but tbh mate as you said it looks cool thats the main reason i admit in a vain poser lol

thats basically it , and well seeing as i have to have a loom made anyway and i got the cover at a good price

why not ??


sure you didnt need a good reason to paint your 3 dr yellow when any of the standard colours were up to the job ?


beef

Ima Racing

iTrader: (1)

He had a crushon AJ when he decided the colour

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

lol


still either way i dont think i need a valid reason to do something different ,


granted im no where near the first ,


beef

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Beefy, im not picking fault at you mate, I just wondered what you reason was as without knowing what you are trying to achieve and why, how can anyone advise you on the best way to do so?

If its purely for the looks of it, then it might be worth attemping to run it off of one of Stu's wasted spark setups as I suspect it will satisfy what you are after.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

LMFAO... What the fuck has SCADA got to do with ignition systems let alone electronic design ??

Look here as you are obviously VERY confused ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCADA

FYI, I have spent the last 5 years designing, installing, SCADA and PLC based systems for 7 water autorities so am fully versed on it.

You clearly have no idea on the final details of electronic design so dont try and blag that you do !


It isnt rocket science but you fail to grasp that it isnt a simple case of adding a few wires as you have stated - I should know, I designed the bloody thing ..you didnt !!

It will need 2 more voltage amplification and isolation interfaces..not as simple as adding a few wires like you have stated but simple-ish for someone who understands digitil circuit design and analog interfacing.

I never said the ecu needs modifying either.. only the driver board.

Please stop twisting my words to make yourself look good at my expense yet again !
If you are going to quote technologies like SCADA at me, at least have the decency to google what it means first and understand it.


You are obviously a bloke with talents but why keep making jibes at me when I dont know you nor have I ever met or delt with you.
You are just another PF keyboard warrior as I havent traded for over 5 years and no longer have customers yet the customer service issue is mentioned again ! !

Get a life .. YOUR OWN ...Fucking yawn.....

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

i acutally think its a good thing someone is developing the cossie OEM stuff further

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im amazed if you cant see the similarity between a control system that acts in real time to aquire data and then control outputs based on it and a car ecu TBH mate, ok the car ecu is a little mickey mouse compared to the 50,000+ inputs that some of the water systems I programmed used to control, but its still very much a related technology and you couldnt possibly have a good understanding of one without that bleeding onto the other, hence the frequency with which people like myself move between these related industries.

Oh how Ironic then given what Ive just said about the relevance of the two industries
I suspect your work involved some of my old clients then as the water industry is a small one and thats actually one of the fields ive also worked in, along with building mangement systems and oil and gas distribution.


Indeed, currently you have an input coming from the ecu, which is then passed to one of 2 output channels each of which contains a simple cicruit, all you need to do is duplicate those 2 circuits and then alter the process so it sends to 4 instead of 2, you have already done all the hard work already.
The only change that the USER would need to perform though, is to connect the extra couple of wires.



Exactly what I have said, I didnt go into details on the exact changes to the daughter board as people are talking about what can be done and how it would be used, not the details of how to do it, you vastly underestimate me though if you think I dont understand what would need doing.

The daughter board is simply distributing the existing output to the relevent channel, and its deciding which channel to send it to by looking at the phase sensor, as you have already done this part to decide which of a pair to send it to, it would be very simple to decide which of 4 instead.

I dont need to google words relating to industries that I have worked in myself, if you cant see the relevance in terms of having an understandin that you dont just nail two wires to the box like you are trying to imply I was thinking, despite also having worked in the same industry then im genuinely surprised.


With regards to your comments claiming I have made out to be an electronics expert, that actually isnt the case at all, I have never said any such thing my own area of expertise is control software, rather than the hardware, but for an application as simple as this one, I have a good enough understanding of the hardware too to know what is involved, much like your expertise is hardware but you have demonstrated a basic understanding of software too, you can never be genuinely good at one without understanding a bit about the other. but for the record no I havent ever claimed to be an electronics expert, but something as simple as the change to your 2 channel system to make it 4 channel doesnt require one, as the hard work (interpreting the phase sensor data) has already been done.

I actually am very confident I could develop your 2 channel system into a 4 channel one if given access to all relevant hardware designs and software, which is why im commenting, because the bit im commenting on is the bit I understand, the more difficult job of getting to the stage you are at already to create the 2 channel system, isnt something I would have the expertise to do without needing a lot of research.

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

VTEC YO on cossies

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

Chip / Simon can you not turn this into a he said she said post as it was actually an interesting read.

Pani

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

And with the 15V fuel pump idea where is it magically going to create this electricity from if the alternator has failed/is dying and the battery is dying also? Last time I studied physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed so where is this magic electricity coming from? What is the principle of the Accuvolt system?

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

totally understand where your coming from there chipper ,

but it was a case of i want to make the mk three a little diffrrent and running coil on plug adds a little to the spec after all


regards stus wasted spark affair my issue was regards how would i go about a loom being constructed , would ryan need specific spec of coils ect, and with the issue of running a possible 8 injector setup , als , lc ect would it be just eaiser as you said eairler to go for a newer ecu ?

i have no issue going l8 if it will do the above

but what would work out cheaper in the long run , obv if i bought a 2 hand l8 with the als ,lc features on it , it wouldnt be an expensive step to get the rest





beef

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It transforms the voltage upwards, if you have 8v and 20a draw available from your dieing battery still then you have enough energy for 15v and 4a with plenty left over

The point you run out, you still run out (slightly sooner in fact as the accuvolt isnt 100% efficient), but on the point leading up to that where the voltage would have tailed off, it no longer does.

dom123

iTrader: (1)

Somebody please find a cure for the battery life on a cossie!! why do they die once parked for a week?

its driving me mad!! my friend left his fiesta for 2months in the winter and it still started!! ive got my fingers crossed after leaving it parked for 4 days!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The coil on plug needs a positive and a negative like most coilpacks do, and then needs a trigger wire to tell it to fire.
The trigger is just a drop to earth I expect (ive very little personal experience of COP) so it would simply be a matter of connecting the first output to the trigger input of both 1 and 4 cylinders COP units and the 2nd output to both 2 and 3 cylinders.

Be aware that the dwell times will probably be different to the fiesta coilpack though so the map would need altering if you just tried to use an off the shelf chip for a WS setup from MSD etc, im sure Stu could easily do that for you though.

With regards to the cost, it will be more expensive than aftermarket by the time you factor in the cost of the ALS / LC / WS upgrades to the L8, and you will also have less flexibility after in terms of who maps it.

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

dom123 - boot switch

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Chip,

I am amazed you are comparing adding a few wires to SCADA systems and saying they are the same

Face facts, you have been caught out blagging an attempt to belittle me once again using terms you thought only yourself would understand.

I am sure anyone reading the web page on the link I post and looking at this discussion will see this for themselves.

If you think I know nothing about how a product I designed 100% works then you are either stupid or blatently trying to sir up trouble yet again.