Been looking on ebay/auto trader/piston heads etc etc and noticed these coming down in price more and more.

I'm thinking of buying a cheap track-hack for the summer months, and these are obviously tempting with a peppy engine and a nice chassis.

Wouldn't be looking to spend a fortune, so obviously I'd mainly be looking at earlier cars. This raises a question however, as I've heard a lot of people talk about early models suffering from engine troubles regularly.

Obviously a later model would be desirable (the darker interior is nicer for a start), but they command a bigger premium, and I'm just looking for some cheap fun for a few months really.

Are the earlier models really that bad? Is it such a bad engine? Or is it more down to poor maintenence and over enthusiastic owners? Or even just internet hype?

Opinions appreciated. Other option is a Puma as they seem even cheaper than the Fiesta, and although they look a bit girly, the increased power of the 1.7 is obviously a bonus over the Fez-bomb!

 

The earlier engines (silver top) dont take well to running on low oil as well as the black tops, but that shouldn't be a problem on a well looked after engine. I've heard of just as many black tops dying as silver tops.

My silver top was over 100k when it was written off. never missed a beat

 

http://www.ukfiestanetwork.com/index...owtopic=160393

There is very little difference in the 2 engines,best replaced with a puma engine anyway :P

The engines only break as most owners are young and dont understand the concept of maintenance.

BRILLIANT little cars

Visit www.zsoc.com/forum for more help mate

 

Wouldn't want the trouble of an engine swap really. Want something that's half decent out of the box that I can enjoy without changing much. I've driven these and they are a good drive and feel much more solid than their French rivals which I always liked.

Mods would be restricted to brakes/tyres and maybe the odd suspension change. Engine changes would be no more than exhaust change really.

Want to keep it simple and get some track miles under my belt, so don't want to buy a load of trouble.

Can cars changing hands for the Ł1500 mark be ok? Or are they a bit risky?

 

if it was my 1500quid, id pay 300quid for a mk4 with a blown engine and puma it. theres a grand gone and you have 500quid for other bolt on bits.

to awnser your question directly, you must use 5-30 oil and change it regualy. the engines are bomb proof till you put the wrong oil in or let it run dirty or low.

 

I think you'll be ok in all honesty. Rear arches tend to rust as per all fords, and around the tailgate handle. Most will have shot bushes, especially on the rear wishbones, so probably makes sense to polybush if using on track. Brakes aren't up to much but cossie callipers go on easy allowing slightly bigger discs...

Chris

 

They do rust a bit, so dont expect a spotless one for Ł1500. Area around rear beam mounting points and under rear arch carpet, rear arches, underneath the rear lights, rear of sunroof rails, under the door rubber on top of the sill and under the rubber on the A pillar.

Would also be wary of lack of cambelt/tensioners change on a cheap one too

 

deleted,if you wish to advertsie please pay the gold members fee

 

There is more about than I expected for that price actually.

Jay, do you have any pictures of the damage to yours?

Wasn't actually looking for a car with an engine swap as it keeps insurance simple, but it's worth considering. Where are you located?

 

Puma engine swap is not needed, its an expensive way of getting about 20bhp

the 1.6 is easily tunes to apprx 145-150 with an exhaust, exh manifold, the right cams and a remap

Other excellent mods are a front lower strut brace, solid insert lower arm rear bushes, FRP rollbar bushes and poly rear beam bushes.

Dont lower by more than 20mm and keep on standard sized wheels.

They are a hoot with a cracking little engine and the sweetest changing gearbox

 

deleted

 

Scotland is probably a bit far out for me to be honest with you

I think a fairly standard one would be the way, then insurance is less of a piss-about than it is with one with an engine swap.

Incidentally, as the cam belt things comes up a lot? Is this expensive/difficult?

 

Cracking Cars, I'm on my Second, they respond well to Exhaust, Cams etc.

Polybushes, and some decent suspension, brakes and tyres, you have a nippy little car.

As said the problem with Phase one (silver top) and Phase two (Black top) is simply lack of oil. The Silver top is arguably stronger due to its crank, the black tops crank is three piece with a bigger end float, meaning its more forgiving to low oil.

I wouldnt bother with a 1.7 VCT, good engines, but you try finding replacement Big end Shells. Piston rings alone are Ł280 for the full set (if your lucky enough to find)

I would cam the 1.6. Or if you fancy getting mucky, cheap mk4 and puma it.

As for Cambelts, its 10 years or 100k, There not difficult at all, aslong as you dont mind free floating pulleys

 

How are cams expensive? Cost about Ł200 for an exchange set.......then all you need is a remap and the exh manifold, dirt cheap if you get the mani second hand off ebay/zsoc etc..........and you get up to a 50bhp increase

Ignore the cost of the belts as if you are putting in a new engine ( which are more than a Ł200 set of cams ), you'd need a full set of new belts and fluids anyway

With a new engine, you neeed the engine, the puma ECU, a small mod to the loom, the puma manifolds and a new engine mount, then you need your keys recoded and a full set of belts, filters and fluids. The end result is only a 20-25bhp increase

Unless you do a bodge job no way is a puma conversion cheaper than a set of cams, an exhaust manifold and a remap

 

Im saying in this instance its cheaper as it ALREADY done!

Depends which cams you go for doesnt it,i know shawpseed SS4's are recommended and there DOUBLE what you quoted.They need exhaust and remaps as stated,decent exhaust is 600 and remap is again another 4-500 (full omex is recommended andding another 5-600)

My puma cost Ł350 (at mates rates) bought and fitted!!

The OP has stated he doesnt want to spend alot,for track action a standard car with brakes and suspension will be great fun

But for the same money why not have the extra 23bhp mine has

 

Because you're bloody miles away

No major engine changes would be taking place at all. Engine mods would be limited to exhaust and induction at most.

If I bought one, it would get a few suspension tweaks, bigger front brakes, decent tyres and not much else. I've had more modified cars, and I'm just looking for some standard-ish fun for the summer. Just want something I can drive.

If I want a 1.7 engine, I'll just buy a Puma I think, as that saves a lot of hassle. The Puma and ZS are the two current favourites anyway, as they're both a good package out of the box, which is just what I'm after. I don't want to spend loads of money on modifying as I'd never see any of it back and I wouldn't really be planning on keeping the car long term anyway. Outside that, if I start swapping engines, that means specialist insurance is required, which makes costs even higher, where as my current insurer will allow basic changes, which is all I want.

Are the belt kits pricey to buy? Fitting is no problem really, just curious as to how much it costs for the kit, as may do it as a matter of course if I buy one.

 

Im willing to travel though next car needs collecting from esex anyway!

The only major annoyance of the puma is the rear visability and the feminenity of it :P

The 1.7 really does make a huge difference to the ZS tbh. That imp blue one i showed you is the best colour!

 

Wangers, the standard airbox on the fiesta will handle up to 150bhp as it is, the major restrictions are the exhaust manifold and the cams. So dont worry about the induction apart from a nice filter in the box

You can find about 10bhp by timing the exhaust cam differently on the standard 1.6......

 

Still gets its arse handed to it by a cammed 1.6

 

My cars same price as a 1.6,if the same cash was spent as your theoretically spending for the OP would it still get its ass handed to it? very much doubt it

1.7 with cams,remap and exhaust is good for anywhere between 140-160 depending on how agressive the cams are
.

 

Correct, but you'd have to transplant the 1.7 first

this discussion centres around whats best VFM, a 1.7 conversion done properly or camming up the 1.6

There is only one answer and its cheaper with apprx 25 bhp more

 

This discussion actually centres around whether I'd get a decent Zetec-S for my budget or whether I'd be buying trouble

The visibility of the Puma isn't ideal, but I'd get used to that, and I can live with the feminity of the things. Rally style lamp pod and some stickers would soon sort that

You can both argue til you're blue in the faces about cams and things, but it isn't relevant to what I'm doing

Jay, I need to sell my Escort first, going to chuck it in for an MOT in the next couple of weeks then stick it up for sale properly and see where I am, so if you still have the fez then, maybe we can talk. I'll see what my insurance company say nearer the time if that's the case

 

Just go for a Zetec S, better visibilty, look better (although thats personal opinion)

Theres plenty to choose from, maybe a little more than Puma's but I believe the fiesta is cheaper to run. 1.6 is a great little revver as it is.

 

Yeah Fiesta is group 8 insurance with the 1.6

 

My insurance didnt change at all with the 1.7 fitted,im 24 with 3yrs ncb and pay Ł340

Mondeo man,the reason im saying the 1.7 with cams etc is te better option in this case is simply because my car is fitted with the 1.7 already.

There both pretty good engines and both benifit massivly from breathing mods

 

Correct

They are a LOT better than most people realise

I have about 7000 posts on ZSOC from back in the day by the way


ps. If you're not a gold member i'd be careful mentioning your car for sale in GD

 

Go for the Puma. Superb little car. Read the little review in the back of Evo magazine on the 1.7 Puma. Says it all really.

 

Evo's Comment on the mk5 z-s was....."more fun than you'll ever believe, but no-one will ever believe you"

 

On the Puma it's

+ Everything
- Nothing

*****

 

+ Everything
- LOOKS GAY! (jokes)

To be fair the Pumas are cheaper than ZS and is pretty much the same car!
http://www.ukfiestanetwork.com/index...owtopic=160417

Worth 300 tbh only going to be tracked anyway right?

my cars no longer forsale,sold today for Ł1000 without the wheels!

There worth too much lol

 

Not interested in buying a car that needs loads and loads of work, kind of defeats the object of what I'm going for. Just want some turn-key amusement.

Neither the Puma or Fiesta will be ruled out. I like both. Fiesta is slightly less girly and a bit cheaper to run, but Puma would be slightly quicker, and I quite like the shape, think they make a funky looking track car. I'll buy the best one I find that I can afford, which ever that may be. I'll see how much money I've got spare when I've sold my car and emptied the shed of bits and see which I can afford.

Thanks for the help people

 

How do adjust the exhaust cam to get the extra horses on standard cams ??

 

Get a puma bought. I love mine. It gets its head kicked on most days. Get a set of mk3 mondeo caliperd and ST170 discs on the front. I tried a set of 17 inch alloys on mine,or though it looked cool it drove horrid. I fitted 20 mm rear spacers on the rear beam and a bottom front strut brace.

I also fitted a 2ltr mondy throttle body. I had to bore the inlet manifold out though. Its also got a cone filter on it too.

The only thing with mk5 fezzas and pumas is the rust. Mine is a tq reg and had 1 lady owner from new. Ive had to weld the floor up and the rear sills and the front chassis legs.

 

Also as a track car you might be disappointed cause on the straight both the fiesta and puma are a bit poo. But in the corners they can hang onto higher powered cars.

 

Bit of an old thread this

I can't actually remember what car I ended up with at the time, think I just ended up smoking round in a 2.0 MK6 Escort for a few months.

Incidentally though, I did end up thinking about this question again late last year and I ended up buying......neither. Bought a Clio 172 Cup and it's awesome, in a different league to the Fiesta/Puma!

 

Lol i didnt even notice the date on the posts.

 

only 5 years glenn lol, phase 2 zs for me was always better looking with more room so drop the 17 vvt in one and it was happy days, best of both worlds