Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

A mate has just bought a Mac 1 with a bike engine.

Power to weight is about 400 per ton. and its goes well.

During a drunken debate, I was trying to decide if some thing like a YB's powered car would be as quick or quicker?

I know they will handle differently due to the weights and different power deliveries.

Almost tempted to build say a westfield with a 300-400bhp YB, but it has to be quicker, as the idea is to go track daying with them.

Is there a club or forum which is dedicated to this sort of thing, I know a few people on here have YB'd tubs so hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

Red16

Cool cars Lee... I've due to collect my Mac#1 Worx chassis between now and christmas so i'm very interested in this thread...

I know the Mac Worx is based on the ZX10r and the complete car weighs in at 435-450kg's, whereas the YB engine weighs circa 120kg alone iirc. Turbo bike engined cars are where its at imo

Have a look on this kit car forum http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/index.php

Red16

Not all bike engined Mac cars are the Worx model though, they do a Type 9R chassis which is not as light as the Worx chassis, but is designed to accept whichever bike engine you wish to use.

The Mac Worx is designed around using a landrover freelander rear diff, which makes the car quite short ratio'd, topping out at around 120mph, but fun through the box.

Mike C

iTrader: (1)

http://www.wscc.co.uk/

There's some delusional fuckers on there though.

I don't rate the bike engined ones myself. In theory they're fine, but in practice I don't think they're all they're cracked up to be.

You can get 99% of the support you need from the factory. I know a few people there very well.

alistairolsen

Damn right, got banned after admitting I didnt own a westfield LMAO.

I reckon if you want a nicely balanced drivers car for track use only, buy bike engined. If you're less worried about the ideal balance, and more about outright pace, go for a high powered car engine (its not a huge compromise) If your pockets are bottomless then turbo bike engine is good, but mental money to do right. Finally, I wouldn't want a BEC on the road at all!

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

By just saying Bike engine it means nothing.... there are loads of kit cars out there with old fireblade engines. They sound amazing.... but are slow as fuck after 60mph... 100 odd bhp and about 3lb ft of torque.

A new Hayabusa engine has ALOT more power....

as someone else said though... BECS don't make for good road cars in my opinion due to the short gearing. good fun on track though.

If you want to see your mates car UTTERLY destroyed by YB engined westy.... let me know

Brian ST-2

iTrader: (1)

^^^^^^^^

Go Porkie.............

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Being 2mph quicker through the corners because you have better balance and less weight doesnt make up for being 40mph slower down the straights, the westfield boys largely seem to miss this point, they really need to try and take Stu or Porkie on at some point on a track to see the error of their ways!

alistairolsen

As I said earlier though, it depends whether you prefer a low lap time, or driving something really nicely balanced. I suspect a wll build BEC will always b a purer drive, but obviously unless turbo'ed you're going to be destroyed on laptime by anything with a margin more power.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes they are welcome to use terms like "purer driving experience" if they wish, its the ones who actually think they can keep up though that are annoying.

And this thread is specifically asking about laptimes/speed

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

i'd love a go in a westie, with a bike engine and squentional box,

it's just one of things i would like to try,

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

There was a guy me and stu met from the Westy forum. he had a really nice one with Busa engine. I was really looking forward to a go in it on track (it was off road at the time) was lovely spec thing....

sadly he popped over to stus one day and I took him down the bypass in mine....

He put his one straight up for sale and I never got a go

bj928

not sure how mine is going to handle, but on the straight nothing will come close if i can get the grip down, with 600lbs ft i could pull the grandstand behind and not notice!!!!!

but bike engine kits are ok if you want to do 100's of gear changes to go anywhere, and have a light enough kit, seeing as a bike only weighs in at about 200kg, and a kit car about 500kg, maybe less if your lucky, they haven't got the lbs/ft to work that well, and no top end worth talking about, go zetec or something like it, the slight difference in weight to the average driver won't make a blind bit of difference, button or hamilton might make difference in lap times but jo blogs won't.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Porkie, did he put it up for sale cause it was so much better balanced than yours and stu's that he felt it was unfair to continue to own it?

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

haha, sweet,

i know yours and stu's will be faster, but there is something inside me that wants a go of one, and to here the engine, rev higher, and handle great, without worrying that at anytime big boost will kick in and try and kill me......lol

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Id like to drive someone elses bike engined one on track, but I would sooner own a turbo car engined one.

When its your own car and you dont need to worry about paying someone back if you crash it then its a GOOD thing it wanting to spit you off the road and kill you at a moments notice, it keeps it exciting!

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

totally agree... as I said I was really looking forward to a go as well.

CombatSapph

All this talk of YB's and Blade engines in Westies make me sad I only have a TB'd Pinto in mine.


Actually, come to think of it - I couldn't give a flying F**K

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

I'd rather have a TbB'd Pinto than a blade engine!

Markb_s1

personally i'd be after a duratec if i had one... less weight and can still make decent power, although not likely to be as much as a sorted YB will do at the moment.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Honda S2000 engine either with or without a turbo is where the smart money goes IMHO

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

surprised no one is using the alloy YB block in these, should lighten it up quite a bit especially if you ditch the heavy old exhaust manifold for a stainless, and a nice light alloy flywheel. The price of the blocks made in Brum seem reasonable over the cosworth supplied version

Mike C

iTrader: (1)

What about with a supercharger? I'd like to see that.

Markb_s1

i've thought one of those might be a bit big from what i've heard?
aren't they quite tall engines?

CraigJ

Or just fit two bike engines, turbo them both and aim for as close to 800bhp per ton as ya can get.

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

how would you sequence the engines to run through a common drivetrain without one or other trying to tear it apart.

I remember the old twin engined karts with each engine driving a rear wheel, they had some type of cut out system to drop power to one engine through the corners

AustenW

Been on track in various powered Westfields

I ran a 400bhp turbo lump in mine for a few years with a sequential box

There are positives and negatives to all engines in these cars

Bike Engine - responsive esp mid bend and sequential box is good for track but lack torque on the straights and very unreliable

Car engine (4cyl) on TB's - Good all rounder, bit gutless unless loads of engine mods

Car engine turbo - Good on the straights but shit on the bends, to much torque for such a small car with no weight transfer to the back end, its a bit of a point and squirt afair

IMO I would use a Mazda 20b 3 rotor engine nasp

450bhp plus rev to 10k plus, linear power and torque delivery to assist traction, lightweight and low centre of gravity.

CraigJ

Lots of trial and error really. just a matter of keeping at it till i get it right.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Good choice, until those bike derived v8s come down in price a bit

AustenW

I've actually removed my turbo engine in favour of a nasp engine for next years season

One of the fastest 7 type cars on the straights was a Dave Edmonds Caterham, did a 10.1 quarter without gas on a 2.0l nasp motor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJtVEVwgmNU

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Hart 420R!

Very cool.

Anyone done a westy with the obvious choice of a DFV yet?

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

No they fit very well... becoming the latest coooool engine to put in em.

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

I was speaking to a guy who races one in Europe a few weeks ago, he said the prices are actually creeping up, not getting cheaper but that they are one hell of an engine, and still a lot cheaper than a DFV and do far more miles between rebuilds

He said they were around 25k but now well over 30 grand for the Hyabusa derived version.

Markb_s1

dunno where i got that idea from then!

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

screamer v8

http://www.h1v8.com/f/dyno_mpeg_compressed.mpg

same car/engine

http://www.h1v8.com/f/h1.mpg

imagine the sound of that combined with a sequential box - very F1 going down the road

AustenW

If it were me I'd use the Mazda 3 rotor engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcyvTuoslAA

Turn the sound up to full first

£10k should get you circa 500bhp nasp

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

sweet at the very end

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

lee you mad man you will kill yourself lol. Hope your well. Them videos are mint.

AustenW

Anyone for a DAX Rush with a Helicopter turbine engine in it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSRx0M2XTx4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMfkaQpetQM&feature=fvw


Also some nice Dax stuff here as well

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...&i=0&nmt=Geoff Page Racing F1 turbo powered Dax rush&mid=0

Red16

You can drive mine when its finished, hopefully late summer next year, all depends on available funds.