Come to a end
26-11-2009, 10:01 AM
#201
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26-11-2009, 10:02 AM
#202
Does that offer include if the gearbox brakes during a final road map of the engine in the car before it ever gets to the dyno?
As obviously if the box is no longer an issue I would imagine that Dave would sooner see it running on race fuel on full boost as then he can actually find out something new about it that would help him with the sale as its likely to be a higher figure than the 711 rather than a lower one on less boost which like I said offers him nothing in terms of selling the engine.
As obviously if the box is no longer an issue I would imagine that Dave would sooner see it running on race fuel on full boost as then he can actually find out something new about it that would help him with the sale as its likely to be a higher figure than the 711 rather than a lower one on less boost which like I said offers him nothing in terms of selling the engine.
26-11-2009, 10:03 AM
#203
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Does that offer include if the gearbox brakes during a final road map of the engine in the car before it ever gets to the dyno?
As obviously if the box is no longer an issue I would imagine that Dave would sooner see it running on race fuel on full boost as then he can actually find out something new about it that would help him with the sale as its likely to be a higher figure than the 711 rather than a lower one on less boost which like I said offers him nothing in terms of selling the engine.
As obviously if the box is no longer an issue I would imagine that Dave would sooner see it running on race fuel on full boost as then he can actually find out something new about it that would help him with the sale as its likely to be a higher figure than the 711 rather than a lower one on less boost which like I said offers him nothing in terms of selling the engine.
26-11-2009, 10:04 AM
#204
And it was some ignition Mark took out on Rod's (same core engine) to solve the head gasket issue not boost as well for that matter.
26-11-2009, 10:10 AM
#205
Well by the sounds of it he might have done to you providing you are happy to still buy it if it fails during mapping as well as if it fails on the dyno, but surely you should have asked the price first 
Was around the 3K mark though IIRC from what Dave was saying last night.
Was around the 3K mark though IIRC from what Dave was saying last night.
26-11-2009, 10:12 AM
#206
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Yes box is sold
But if andy give me 3k for the box after the rolling road day even it it breaks then im game?
Andy?
But if andy give me 3k for the box after the rolling road day even it it breaks then im game?
Andy?
Last edited by Its Dave; 26-11-2009 at 10:13 AM.
26-11-2009, 10:24 AM
#213
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Ive sold it for 3k and it has all new selectors, centre diff, chain
So l will have it put on rollers and get 2 power charts, one as it is and one with full boost and if it breaks l look forward to my 3k bank transfer
Cheers
26-11-2009, 10:27 AM
#214
Awesomely generous of Andy to underwrite the gearbox like that 
Just to stop any arguing over the 200 quid you two are apart by, I'll cover that difference if it breaks, as Ive easily had 200 quids worth of pleasure out of being in the car over the years anyway.
Thats assuming that Andy's offer extends to covering failure during mapping too of course, as thats obviously when its most likely to fail anyway so is a totally empty gesture by him if it doesnt obviously.
Just to stop any arguing over the 200 quid you two are apart by, I'll cover that difference if it breaks, as Ive easily had 200 quids worth of pleasure out of being in the car over the years anyway.
Thats assuming that Andy's offer extends to covering failure during mapping too of course, as thats obviously when its most likely to fail anyway so is a totally empty gesture by him if it doesnt obviously.
Last edited by Chip; 26-11-2009 at 10:34 AM.
26-11-2009, 10:40 AM
#215
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Awesomely generous of Andy to underwrite the gearbox like that
Just to stop any arguing over the 200 quid you two are apart by, I'll cover that difference if it breaks, as Ive easily had 200 quids worth of pleasure out of being in the car over the years anyway.
Thats assuming that Andy's offer extends to covering failure during mapping too of course, as thats obviously when its most likely to fail anyway so is a totally empty gesture by him if it doesnt obviously.
Just to stop any arguing over the 200 quid you two are apart by, I'll cover that difference if it breaks, as Ive easily had 200 quids worth of pleasure out of being in the car over the years anyway.
Thats assuming that Andy's offer extends to covering failure during mapping too of course, as thats obviously when its most likely to fail anyway so is a totally empty gesture by him if it doesnt obviously.
26-11-2009, 10:45 AM
#217
And if its going on the rollers at full boost it needs mark to do his final tweaks first, either on the road or on another set of rollers before the day, so if your offer doesnt cover that, its a pretty pointless offer surely mate?
Would you be happy to cover a failure of the box while mapping on another set of DD rollers then in advance, if not covering road driving?
Last edited by Chip; 26-11-2009 at 10:46 AM.
26-11-2009, 10:51 AM
#218
All this final mapping crap & boost is a load of bollocks why not just do it all at the start then the car is what it is! look what andy & charlie's cars have done & proved engine comes out the van & in the car then gets death full boost no excuses wins races & 9.5 quarters 
26-11-2009, 10:55 AM
#219
All this final mapping crap & boost is a load of bollocks why not just do it all at the start then the car is what it is! look what andy & charlie's cars have done & proved engine comes out the van & in the car then gets death full boost no excuses wins races & 9.5 quarters
Things can change from the dyno to in car but like Andy & Charlie my old 2.3 Millington engine went straight from dyno to Brunters and did the biz.
26-11-2009, 11:05 AM
#220
All this final mapping crap & boost is a load of bollocks why not just do it all at the start then the car is what it is! look what andy & charlie's cars have done & proved engine comes out the van & in the car then gets death full boost no excuses wins races & 9.5 quarters
What does he possibly have to gain by doing it all on your terms?
I think he is a twat if he lets you bully him into running a car in a way in which his tuner wont warranty the engine before its been checked over, he could stand to lose 10K+ in an afternoon all to try and shut up a load of saddos on a forum who want to have a dig at him!
If Mark wants to check the engine over in the car on full boost first, either on the rollers or on the road, then that is the only way in which it makes any sense at all for Dave to run it, so unless Andy's offer covers that its just a pointless empty gesture that is no use to Dave as far as I can see.
Last edited by Chip; 26-11-2009 at 11:07 AM.
26-11-2009, 11:15 AM
#221
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low boost excuses
Its like people turning up to track days or drag days, getting pumped stupid and coming out with the excuse i'm only running HALF or LOW boost.
Why the F**k would anyone do this.
If my car run 32psi normally i would have it running 38psi on a day where it counts.
Excuses Excuses Excuses
When the flag drops the bullshit stops
Why the F**k would anyone do this.
If my car run 32psi normally i would have it running 38psi on a day where it counts.
Excuses Excuses Excuses
When the flag drops the bullshit stops
26-11-2009, 11:22 AM
#222
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Does that offer include if the gearbox brakes during a final road map of the engine in the car before it ever gets to the dyno?
As obviously if the box is no longer an issue I would imagine that Dave would sooner see it running on race fuel on full boost as then he can actually find out something new about it that would help him with the sale as its likely to be a higher figure than the 711 rather than a lower one on less boost which like I said offers him nothing in terms of selling the engine.
As obviously if the box is no longer an issue I would imagine that Dave would sooner see it running on race fuel on full boost as then he can actually find out something new about it that would help him with the sale as its likely to be a higher figure than the 711 rather than a lower one on less boost which like I said offers him nothing in terms of selling the engine.
0-60 2.6 sec
0-100 5.4 sec
1/4 mile 9.9
26-11-2009, 11:30 AM
#223
Personally I would want to check the engine in the car before allowing it to run full load if it was me who tuned it on the dyno, there could be all sorts of issues, like for example the fuel system might not deliver enough flow how Dave has installed it for all Mark knows, it SHOULD be ok, but Mark isnt prepeared to warranty it without checking that is IS ok rather than just hoping it is as after all its Dave who built the car not Mark.
Like I said, first time I saw Andy's car in action was at TOTB, and it lost a lifter shim, if the same thing happened to Dave on the dyno he wouldnt get a chance to put it right there and then and everyone would leave laughing at him, how the hell does that achieve anything benefical to dave?
26-11-2009, 11:31 AM
#224
Its like people turning up to track days or drag days, getting pumped stupid and coming out with the excuse i'm only running HALF or LOW boost.
Why the F**k would anyone do this.
If my car run 32psi normally i would have it running 38psi on a day where it counts.
Excuses Excuses Excuses
When the flag drops the bullshit stops
Why the F**k would anyone do this.
If my car run 32psi normally i would have it running 38psi on a day where it counts.
Excuses Excuses Excuses
When the flag drops the bullshit stops
Dave hasnt run full boost anywhere yet in the car, as the car hasnt yet been mapped on full boost, as dave has been running it around on low boost while he sorts out other issues with the car, he's still waiting for the EGT gauge that he wants to run on it for example.
So he isnt making excuses, and its not that he has turned the boost down in the car, its just a fact that the car isnt yet fully finished and so its never been up to full boost in the first place in the car yet.
Its aleady done 194mph on a lower spec, so dave is aware when the bullshit stops, as unlike most people he has previously put his car to arguably the ultimate test for the engine, running it at brunters (where andy's blew up or overheated or something when he tried IIRC)
So its not like he is scared to use it when he is happy its finished, but currently that isnt the case.
Fair enough if SCS dont care about checking in the car, and Andy doesnt care that he has these failures thats his choice, but if MAD want to take a more steady approach to ensuring everything is correct, then you should respect that decision, not everyone wants to be a cowboy and just chuck it in and hope for the best, which is how potentially not checking it in the car might be viewed by some people, Id certainly want to do it for example if it was me so can see exactly where they are coming from.
Last edited by Chip; 26-11-2009 at 11:36 AM.
26-11-2009, 11:32 AM
#225
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i woudlnt dare run any dyno mapped engine on road without a final once over on road, you simply cannot simulate the road 100% in a dyno cell. why do some of the scs cars run det cans on thash days ? if they ready to be run of the dybo ?
26-11-2009, 11:34 AM
#226
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lol been in daves car a few times throught its humble life, the way it is at minute dont need to run full boost, it fukin flys, i think the engine builder no longer needs to prove anything, just look at the track records, rods cossie, sunnys old fiesta....
26-11-2009, 11:44 AM
#227
Personally i don't see what all the arguing is about, I totally agree with Chips statements about Dave taking all the risk, if it doesn't go to plan it's him that has to foot the bill.As for the comments about full/low boost, yes I agree there is no point in testing the car on low boost, because it won't put an end to the negative comments and prove what it's really capable of.So what if SCS built your engine and you took it out and thrashed it, common sense would tell you that if it hasn't been tested fully and something goes wrong, it's likely to be alot more costly. The last engine i had built is only about half the power we're talking about here, but it's for a road car, and i chose to run it in, because it belongs to me. He's probably just sick of all the wank and waste of money constantly buying bits for it.
26-11-2009, 11:44 AM
#228
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Thats like me saying (ive been in my mates cossie with greens it fooking flys, dont think theres much point spending 20 grand upgrading to 650bhp. Duh
26-11-2009, 11:51 AM
#229
Stuff like suspension, brakes, gauges, are all higher on the list of priorities than full power, so putting some miles on to test all that, makes perfect sense.
Some people might just want to instantly go totally balls out everywhere in a completely untested car, some people dont, thats life, im sure if it was andyg it would have been thrashed the afternoon he got it into the car, but andy are dave are different people and dave likes to take a meticilous approach to building his cars not a gung ho one like andy seemginly does. (although I suspect he is more thorough and cautious than he appears at times!)
Personally I think they both are entitled to do things their own way with their own cars!
Last edited by Chip; 26-11-2009 at 11:53 AM.
26-11-2009, 11:53 AM
#230
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not stupid at all , i sold dave the orignal 600-bhp engine
i know what it takes to run at this level, the cars proved it self, as it has been doing thru its life. maybe its me taking things to personally, but i went thru the heartache of the orignal build.
and unless you have been there, you have no idea
26-11-2009, 11:54 AM
#231
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Lets all cut to the chase here its clear Daves not confident in the engine and no amount of tedious replies by chip stating this that and the next thing about how its not mapped are all just excuses.
Andy offered to buy the box so get it on the rollers and stop being a pussy.
Andy offered to buy the box so get it on the rollers and stop being a pussy.
26-11-2009, 11:56 AM
#232
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Its not a stupid thing to say, Dave has only been using the car on the road so far since the engine went in other than a very brief 2 session shakedown at donnington, and on the road it really doesnt need anymore power than the circa 600 it has currently, you are doing crazy speeds in no time at all, when I put my foot down in it on the road I didnt think "the next thing this car needs is more power" and neither did dave, he was more interested in spending his time sorting out all the other little issues he felt the car had instead, so its simply a case of the engine hasnt come to the top of the list of things to do with it yet.
Stuff like suspension, brakes, gauges, are all higher on the list of priorities than full power, so putting some miles on to test all that, makes perfect sense.
Some people might just want to instantly go totally balls out everywhere in a completely untested car, some people dont, thats life, im sure if it was andyg it would have been thrashed the afternoon he got it into the car, but andy are dave are different people and dave likes to take a meticilous approach to building his cars not a gung ho one like andy seemginly does. (although I suspect he is more thorough and cautious than he appears at times!)
Personally I think they both are entitled to do things their own way with their own cars!
Stuff like suspension, brakes, gauges, are all higher on the list of priorities than full power, so putting some miles on to test all that, makes perfect sense.
Some people might just want to instantly go totally balls out everywhere in a completely untested car, some people dont, thats life, im sure if it was andyg it would have been thrashed the afternoon he got it into the car, but andy are dave are different people and dave likes to take a meticilous approach to building his cars not a gung ho one like andy seemginly does. (although I suspect he is more thorough and cautious than he appears at times!)
Personally I think they both are entitled to do things their own way with their own cars!
Andy doesnt need to be cautious he has full trust in his car.
26-11-2009, 11:57 AM
#233
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Lets all cut to the chase here its clear Daves not confident in the engine and no amount of tedious replies by chip stating this that and the next thing about how its not mapped are all just excuses.
Andy offered to buy the box so get it on the rollers and stop being a pussy.
Andy offered to buy the box so get it on the rollers and stop being a pussy.
26-11-2009, 12:02 PM
#234
There are possibly going to be some teething problems in the install highlighted by going to full boost as well, so I think its perfectly sensible not to just turn the wick up and hope for the best.
But the single most important thing, is his tuner wants to test it at that power level, and Dave is going to be an idiot if he doesnt let mark do that and it results in an engien failure as mark is going to (rightly so) just shrug his soldiers and say thats why he wanted to be there to check it over.
You really are an idiot if you cant see that!
Thats absolutely true in the and no amount of tedious replies by chip stating this that and the next thing about how its not mapped are all just excuses.
I cant believe you find it so hard to grasp!
Andy offered to buy the box so get it on the rollers and stop being a pussy.
26-11-2009, 12:02 PM
#235
If you actually read andys replies yopu'll see that he isn't covering it for a failure in a live mapping session (That was my interpritation of it anyway). No point in RR'ing a car if it isn't setup properly, it might aswell be a stage 3 chip in an 800bhp engine if you do it that way.
26-11-2009, 12:04 PM
#236
Full trust in it to do what?
Never break?
Cause if he has full trust in it to do that then he is an idiot, and has proved himself wrong numerous times already
I suspect you are making statements about andy that arent true at all there!
I think more likely is that andy knows the risk that something may go wrong with his car but he chooses to live with those risks!
As has dave done in the past, but now he is getting rid of the car he wants to maximise the capital he sees back from it, so no longer wishes to take risks with it.
I really cant beleive that simple concept becomes impossible to understand as soon as you get north of cumbria, so I think you just need to try a little harder to grasp the simple facts, then no one will need to keep repeating them in all these tedious replies!
Never break?
Cause if he has full trust in it to do that then he is an idiot, and has proved himself wrong numerous times already
I suspect you are making statements about andy that arent true at all there!
I think more likely is that andy knows the risk that something may go wrong with his car but he chooses to live with those risks!
As has dave done in the past, but now he is getting rid of the car he wants to maximise the capital he sees back from it, so no longer wishes to take risks with it.
I really cant beleive that simple concept becomes impossible to understand as soon as you get north of cumbria, so I think you just need to try a little harder to grasp the simple facts, then no one will need to keep repeating them in all these tedious replies!
Last edited by Chip; 26-11-2009 at 12:06 PM.
26-11-2009, 12:07 PM
#238
So you surely can't be surprised if others come back with similar comments?
26-11-2009, 12:07 PM
#239
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[quote=Chip;4537393]If you mean is he utterly 100% confident it wont fail, then of course he isnt, no one is at this level unless they are an idiot, if andy was 100% confident at brunters for example then he was wrong, and if andy was 100% confident at TOTB then he was wrong again.
are you on about the engine faliure when he run his white one? as i thought it was cos he had turned boost up beyond a safe level?
are you on about the engine faliure when he run his white one? as i thought it was cos he had turned boost up beyond a safe level?
26-11-2009, 12:09 PM
#240
I ran my tall block at low boost to start with and even at 1 bar it was barmy fast so I can see where you're coming from BUT I did get dodgy comments from some of the MAD crew who were mouthing off saying the engine would fail if it ever ran full boost.. Good for me they were wrong
So you surely can't be surprised if others come back with similar comments?
So you surely can't be surprised if others come back with similar comments?
Your engine didnt have a twin that was just about to go out and do the numbers, Dave's does, so why should he prove things for Mark at the possible expense of his gearbox to do it?