Well done Jenson Button!!!!
20-10-2009, 10:30 AM
#121
............
ouch things in your world are indeed simple.
the disagvantage because of kers was in the body design of the car, the side pods needed to be alot larger to encase the kers, for this reason removing it ment nothing as they still had the problem with the aero package/ large side pods, and without a FULL new car there was no simple way to sport it out.
the disagvantage because of kers was in the body design of the car, the side pods needed to be alot larger to encase the kers, for this reason removing it ment nothing as they still had the problem with the aero package/ large side pods, and without a FULL new car there was no simple way to sport it out.
I'm well aware of the packaging difficulties, but given that it has still been an advantage
Mclaren/Brawn et all have bought new/updated sidepods to their cars about ten times this season so its a non issue
If KERS wasnt a performance advantage to the teams who used it over both a single lap and a race distance then they wouldnt have bothered to use it, just like the teams who didnt/couldnt use it this year
Unless you're saying they'd deliberatley handicap themselves for the fun of it?
20-10-2009, 10:31 AM
#122
Mondeo Man, it was Mercedes KERS I was referring to, likewise it was the mercedes KERS that Brawn was referring to in the quote above as thats what the two drivers this thread is about (Button and Hamilton) had available to them, not much point discussing the honda system that neither could use anyway.
Next year, as Ive already mentioned, the KERS cars will be less disadvantaged for a number of reasons, the KERS will be improved upon by development, the aero packages will allow for it better, and the weight rules will help sort the distribution issues.
This year, overall for the season, KERS was a disadvantage according to Brawn, and I agree with him.
Next year, as Ive already mentioned, the KERS cars will be less disadvantaged for a number of reasons, the KERS will be improved upon by development, the aero packages will allow for it better, and the weight rules will help sort the distribution issues.
This year, overall for the season, KERS was a disadvantage according to Brawn, and I agree with him.
20-10-2009, 10:33 AM
#123
the question is wtf is going to happen with kers next year
first it was banned
then it was unbanned
now its under a gentelmans agreement
althou i dont agree with alot of you opinions mondeoman i know you do keep current, heard anything about kers next year yet ??
first it was banned
then it was unbanned
now its under a gentelmans agreement
althou i dont agree with alot of you opinions mondeoman i know you do keep current, heard anything about kers next year yet ??
20-10-2009, 10:34 AM
#124
Not really a simple view, i'm just regurgitating whats been quoted by KERS teams.
I'm well aware of the packaging difficulties, but given that it has still been an advantage
Mclaren/Brawn et all have bought new/updated sidepods to their cars about ten times this season so its a non issue
If KERS wasnt a performance advantage to the teams who used it over both a single lap and a race distance then they wouldnt have bothered to use it, just like the teams who didnt/couldnt use it this year
Unless you're saying they'd deliberatley handicap themselves for the fun of it?
I'm well aware of the packaging difficulties, but given that it has still been an advantage
Mclaren/Brawn et all have bought new/updated sidepods to their cars about ten times this season so its a non issue
If KERS wasnt a performance advantage to the teams who used it over both a single lap and a race distance then they wouldnt have bothered to use it, just like the teams who didnt/couldnt use it this year
Unless you're saying they'd deliberatley handicap themselves for the fun of it?
Cars designed to run mercedes KERS, would be at a disadvantage by simply removing it.
Once they had designed the car and the aero package to use it, it was too late in the day to just remove it, so instead they set about attempting to make the car work better with it, and that knowledge will help them next year too.
20-10-2009, 10:36 AM
#125
Dont think anyone can say for definite that it will remain like that, but it appears it will.
Edit:
found a link to them:
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/130A104E1769D120C1257617002D4CAE/$FILE/Stable%20Technical%20Regulations%20-%2024th%20July%20-%20CLEAN.pdf
9.9 Kinetic Energy Recovery System :
9.9.1 The KERS must connect at any point in the rear wheel drivetrain before the differential.
9.9.2 The system will be considered shut down when all energy is contained within the KERS modules and no
high voltage is present on any external or accessible part of any KERS module.
The shutdown process must take no longer than two seconds from activation.
9.9.1 The KERS must connect at any point in the rear wheel drivetrain before the differential.
9.9.2 The system will be considered shut down when all energy is contained within the KERS modules and no
high voltage is present on any external or accessible part of any KERS module.
The shutdown process must take no longer than two seconds from activation.
Last edited by Chip; 20-10-2009 at 10:39 AM.
20-10-2009, 10:36 AM
#126
Jeebus
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It is almost pointless discussing F1 on here as a few blinkered people are willing to spend their entire life writing hate filled garbage about Hamilton (and Button) for no valid reason at all.
The real truth is that both British drivers have provided a huge amount of entertainment this season with some great racing and overtaking. Both are very skilled and over the last two years both have proven the obvious that we all knew anyway (except for the people mentioned above who have only just realised and now need to tell the world) - you can't win a championship in a bad car, no matter how good a driver you are.
The real truth is that both British drivers have provided a huge amount of entertainment this season with some great racing and overtaking. Both are very skilled and over the last two years both have proven the obvious that we all knew anyway (except for the people mentioned above who have only just realised and now need to tell the world) - you can't win a championship in a bad car, no matter how good a driver you are.
20-10-2009, 10:44 AM
#127
............
Crikey, you really are missing the point.
Cars designed to run mercedes KERS, would be at a disadvantage by simply removing it.
Once they had designed the car and the aero package to use it, it was too late in the day to just remove it, so instead they set about attempting to make the car work better with it, and that knowledge will help them next year too.
Cars designed to run mercedes KERS, would be at a disadvantage by simply removing it.
Once they had designed the car and the aero package to use it, it was too late in the day to just remove it, so instead they set about attempting to make the car work better with it, and that knowledge will help them next year too.
I am fully aware that a KERS car with it removed would be at a disadvantage to a non kers designed car
I was talking that KERS was NOT a disadvantage for teams running it
Ross Brawn also would have run KERS had he had the system they intended to use available
You were also talking about KERS in General (as I have quoted below, I can see no caveat stating you are merely talking about an individual team ) and stating they were disadvantaged......they werent as the performance from the 80bhp for 7 seconds outweighed ( excuse the pun ) the packaging issues
I'll assume for the sake of it Mclaren and Ferarri actually looked at some data before they made the decision to use it
In the same way Brawn knew their car to be fast before it hit the track
Originally Posted by Chip
Which the change in minimum weights next year the KERS cars will be less disadvantaged than they were this year IMHO, so its going to be harder for Brawn to do anything next year that gives Jenson a good enough car to win races again, unless he can find another rule that he manages to interpret differently to most teams, which is of course always possible!
20-10-2009, 10:45 AM
#128
The 2010 rules published on 19th August 2009 include KERS.
Dont think anyone can say for definite that it will remain like that, but it appears it will.
Edit:
found a link to them:
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/130A104E1769D120C1257617002D4CAE/$FILE/Stable%20Technical%20Regulations%20-%2024th%20July%20-%20CLEAN.pdf
Dont think anyone can say for definite that it will remain like that, but it appears it will.
Edit:
found a link to them:
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/130A104E1769D120C1257617002D4CAE/$FILE/Stable%20Technical%20Regulations%20-%2024th%20July%20-%20CLEAN.pdf
i know kers is allowed in the 2010 rule book LOL but there is a FOTA agrement that no team will use it, now its been said williams will be using it againest the FOTA but i cannot find anything about other teams
20-10-2009, 10:47 AM
#129
............
Pointless arguing about KERS anyway Chip because if you followed F1 you'd know that all FOT members, now including Williams and the new teams have signed an agreement not to use KERS for 2010
So kind of blows the theory its less of a disadvantage to shit, seeing as nobody will be using it
Cost of development is the issue, not performance and it's deemed to be counter productive to spend lots of budget developing it
So kind of blows the theory its less of a disadvantage to shit, seeing as nobody will be using it
Cost of development is the issue, not performance and it's deemed to be counter productive to spend lots of budget developing it
20-10-2009, 10:47 AM
#130
Originally Posted by Martin Whitmarsh CEO of Mclaren F1
F1 is a real packaging challenge. To be able to harvest energy and redeploy it is challenging enough but to achieve that in an F1 car environment has been a real challenge. Inevitably there are compromises. The lightest systems are 30kg – ours is one of, if not the lightest. But 30kg on an F1 car is around 1 sec of lap time. Given the amount of energy and power we’re able to deploy the theoretical benefit is never any more than 0.3 to 0.4s per lap.
20-10-2009, 10:48 AM
#131
............
Williams has also signed not to use it
The only thing Williams is now still at odds with Fota over is the inclusion of a 14th team on the Grid, as that team is (was ) BMW and Frank has beef with them
20-10-2009, 10:49 AM
#132
Pointless arguing about KERS anyway Chip because if you followed F1 you'd know that all FOT members, now including Williams and the new teams have signed an agreement not to use KERS for 2010
So kind of blows the theory its less of a disadvantage to shit, seeing as nobody will be using it
Cost of development is the issue, not performance and it's deemed to be counter productive to spend lots of budget developing it
So kind of blows the theory its less of a disadvantage to shit, seeing as nobody will be using it
Cost of development is the issue, not performance and it's deemed to be counter productive to spend lots of budget developing it
Time will tell
More to the point I actually hope it does stay, I think its good technology for teams to be developing.
Last edited by Chip; 20-10-2009 at 10:50 AM.
20-10-2009, 10:50 AM
#133
Pointless arguing about KERS anyway Chip because if you followed F1 you'd know that all FOT members, now including Williams and the new teams have signed an agreement not to use KERS for 2010
So kind of blows the theory its less of a disadvantage to shit, seeing as nobody will be using it
Cost of development is the issue, not performance and it's deemed to be counter productive to spend lots of budget developing it
So kind of blows the theory its less of a disadvantage to shit, seeing as nobody will be using it
Cost of development is the issue, not performance and it's deemed to be counter productive to spend lots of budget developing it
the fact is it is OVERALL a dissadvantage
williams when did they sign an agreement not to use it ?? as last i see they were now going to
i wish they would make there mind up
20-10-2009, 10:52 AM
#134
............
Martin Whitmarsh CEO of Mclaren F1
F1 is a real packaging challenge. To be able to harvest energy and redeploy it is challenging enough but to achieve that in an F1 car environment has been a real challenge. Inevitably there are compromises. The lightest systems are 30kg ours is one of, if not the lightest. But 30kg on an F1 car is around 1 sec of lap time. Given the amount of energy and power were able to deploy the theoretical benefit is never any more than 0.3 to 0.4s per lap.
So you can see that despite the weight penalty of 1second a lap, it gives a net benefit of up to 0.4 seconds a lap, even with the added weight.
Seems a bit silly to quote something proving it gives a net benefit when you say its a disadvantage
F1 is a real packaging challenge. To be able to harvest energy and redeploy it is challenging enough but to achieve that in an F1 car environment has been a real challenge. Inevitably there are compromises. The lightest systems are 30kg ours is one of, if not the lightest. But 30kg on an F1 car is around 1 sec of lap time. Given the amount of energy and power were able to deploy the theoretical benefit is never any more than 0.3 to 0.4s per lap.
So you can see that despite the weight penalty of 1second a lap, it gives a net benefit of up to 0.4 seconds a lap, even with the added weight.
Seems a bit silly to quote something proving it gives a net benefit when you say its a disadvantage
20-10-2009, 10:55 AM
#135
Martin Whitmarsh CEO of Mclaren F1
F1 is a real packaging challenge. To be able to harvest energy and redeploy it is challenging enough but to achieve that in an F1 car environment has been a real challenge. Inevitably there are compromises. The lightest systems are 30kg – ours is one of, if not the lightest. But 30kg on an F1 car is around 1 sec of lap time. Given the amount of energy and power we’re able to deploy the theoretical benefit is never any more than 0.3 to 0.4s per lap.
So you can see that despite the weight penalty of 1second a lap, it gives a net benefit of up to 0.4 seconds a lap, even with the added weight.
Seems a bit silly to quote something proving it gives a net benefit when you say its a disadvantage
F1 is a real packaging challenge. To be able to harvest energy and redeploy it is challenging enough but to achieve that in an F1 car environment has been a real challenge. Inevitably there are compromises. The lightest systems are 30kg – ours is one of, if not the lightest. But 30kg on an F1 car is around 1 sec of lap time. Given the amount of energy and power we’re able to deploy the theoretical benefit is never any more than 0.3 to 0.4s per lap.
So you can see that despite the weight penalty of 1second a lap, it gives a net benefit of up to 0.4 seconds a lap, even with the added weight.
Seems a bit silly to quote something proving it gives a net benefit when you say its a disadvantage
Its THEORETICAL maximum possible benefit is .3 to .4 seconds, so that is what they spent the season working towards, its not what they achieved IMHO though, due to the reasons Ive already given about weight distribution (he is talking weight amounts, not distribution issues like I mentioned), I was just giving some background on why it might be an advantage at all as I had given Brawn's opinion of why it wasnt.
You said you were making an assumption about mclaren, I was just adding clarity to Mclarens actual opinion of the system.
I wasnt attemping to arague against it, I have no vested interest in promoting KERS, I dont own shares in the system or anything mate.
I was just trying to make the thread informative.
There are 2 views Ive put forward there with quotes from industry professionals, I personally agree with the Brawn view for this year, that it was a disadvantage but I believe that next year (if used) it will be an advantage.
Last edited by Chip; 20-10-2009 at 10:57 AM.
20-10-2009, 11:06 AM
#138
............
Its THEORETICAL maximum possible benefit is .3 to .4 seconds, so that is what they spent the season working towards, its not what they achieved IMHO though, due to the reasons Ive already given about weight distribution (he is talking weight amounts, not distribution issues like I mentioned), I was just giving some background on why it might be an advantage at all as I had given Brawn's opinion of why it wasnt.
You said you were making an assumption about mclaren, I was just adding clarity to Mclarens actual opinion of the system.
I wasnt attemping to arague against it, I have no vested interest in promoting KERS, I dont own shares in the system or anything mate.
I was just trying to make the thread informative.
There are 2 views Ive put forward there with quotes from industry professionals, I personally agree with the Brawn view for this year, that it was a disadvantage but I believe that next year (if used) it will be an advantage.
You said you were making an assumption about mclaren, I was just adding clarity to Mclarens actual opinion of the system.
I wasnt attemping to arague against it, I have no vested interest in promoting KERS, I dont own shares in the system or anything mate.
I was just trying to make the thread informative.
There are 2 views Ive put forward there with quotes from industry professionals, I personally agree with the Brawn view for this year, that it was a disadvantage but I believe that next year (if used) it will be an advantage.
You dont agree with Brawn because he also wanted it in the car, first the Honda System, then mid season he purchased the Mercedes system but couldnt get the packaging right as the car was designed with a lighter engine in mind so it spoiled his ballast options.
You can see Brawn also sees it as an advantage provided he could have installed it as per his original design, like Mclaren and Ferarri have managed to do
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=45852
20-10-2009, 11:16 AM
#139
You are misreading his quote if you are reading that as definitively he wanted the mercedes system in the car IMHO, he merely said they would look into it, which they did, then decided not to run it as the disadvantages outweighed the advantages for them, even later in the season once some of the hard work had been done by other teams.
You have to remember the limited testing they are allowed, something a change like that requires a lot of, and part of the reason why it was, i believe, a disadvantage for the season as a whole, as the teams didnt have enough time to develop it properly for it to work well early in the season, by the end of the season it appears to be starting to show a benefit, but for the season as a whole I believe (and results seem to show) that teams were better off without it.
As I mentioned a page or two ago, it has both advantages and disadvantages, each team had to look at it on balance, and in the end no team that Im aware of swapped mid season, once they had made their bed either way, they then laid in it
You have to remember the limited testing they are allowed, something a change like that requires a lot of, and part of the reason why it was, i believe, a disadvantage for the season as a whole, as the teams didnt have enough time to develop it properly for it to work well early in the season, by the end of the season it appears to be starting to show a benefit, but for the season as a whole I believe (and results seem to show) that teams were better off without it.
As I mentioned a page or two ago, it has both advantages and disadvantages, each team had to look at it on balance, and in the end no team that Im aware of swapped mid season, once they had made their bed either way, they then laid in it
Last edited by Chip; 20-10-2009 at 11:18 AM.
20-10-2009, 11:27 AM
#140
............
You are misreading his quote if you are reading that as definitively he wanted the mercedes system in the car IMHO, he merely said they would look into it, which they did, then decided not to run it as the disadvantages outweighed the advantages for them, even later in the season once some of the hard work had been done by other teams.
You have to remember the limited testing they are allowed, something a change like that requires a lot of, and part of the reason why it was, i believe, a disadvantage for the season as a whole, as the teams didnt have enough time to develop it properly for it to work well early in the season, by the end of the season it appears to be starting to show a benefit, but for the season as a whole I believe (and results seem to show) that teams were better off without it.
As I mentioned a page or two ago, it has both advantages and disadvantages, each team had to look at it on balance, and in the end no team that Im aware of swapped mid season, once they had made their bed either way, they then laid in it
You have to remember the limited testing they are allowed, something a change like that requires a lot of, and part of the reason why it was, i believe, a disadvantage for the season as a whole, as the teams didnt have enough time to develop it properly for it to work well early in the season, by the end of the season it appears to be starting to show a benefit, but for the season as a whole I believe (and results seem to show) that teams were better off without it.
As I mentioned a page or two ago, it has both advantages and disadvantages, each team had to look at it on balance, and in the end no team that Im aware of swapped mid season, once they had made their bed either way, they then laid in it
All Kers cars will be less disadvantaged.
Which reads that all KERS cars are disadvantaged.
Had you wanted to say, the minimum weight increase will mean KERS is more of an advantage then again i'd agree entirely.
20-10-2009, 11:29 AM
#141
Somethin which I completely agree on, would we be having this discussion if you'd opened with that as opposed to
All Kers cars will be less disadvantaged.
Which reads that all KERS cars are disadvantaged.
Had you wanted to say, the minimum weight increase will mean KERS is more of an advantage then again i'd agree entirely.
All Kers cars will be less disadvantaged.
Which reads that all KERS cars are disadvantaged.
Had you wanted to say, the minimum weight increase will mean KERS is more of an advantage then again i'd agree entirely.
They are also advantaged on the straights, but that advantage wouldnt be changing next year, so I stuck to only mentioning the thing that would change the balance of KERS versus non KERS, a reduction in the cornering disadvantages, as this is what would sway the championship to a KERS car next year IMHO if the system does get used.
Can you not get your head round the concept that it is both an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time but that only the disadvantages are changing or something mate?
I honestly cant see why you are reading that statement the wrong way TBH, it reads clearly to me.
Last edited by Chip; 20-10-2009 at 11:32 AM.
20-10-2009, 11:31 AM
#142
cheers i wonder if they will change there mind again lol
Originally Posted by lewis hamilton;
If we had the fastest car or as fast a car as maybe Mark here and we had KERS on top we would be light years ahead but KERS, for us, just recovers what we lose in a straight-line because the efficiency of our car is not good at all.
i firmly belive kers is an advantage as a whole, but for its first year in F1 it was a disadvantage
20-10-2009, 11:34 AM
#143
hopefully!
I dont think anyone will disagree with the fact that longer term it will prove to be an advantage, for the very simple reason that the people writing the rules WANT it to be an advantage overall!
So they will keep changing the rules until it is so tempting the teams have to use it I think.
Even if it is dropped for 2010 by FOTA and they all stick to it, I still expect it to be back in 2011
i firmly belive kers is an advantage as a whole, but for its first year in F1 it was a disadvantage
So they will keep changing the rules until it is so tempting the teams have to use it I think.
Even if it is dropped for 2010 by FOTA and they all stick to it, I still expect it to be back in 2011
20-10-2009, 11:39 AM
#144
............
All KERS cars ARE disadvantaged (in the corners if you are wondering where I mean), and next year the rules mean (if any use it, which now seems less likely anyway) they will be less disadvantaged.
They are also advantaged on the straights, but that advantage wouldnt be changing next year, so I stuck to only mentioning the thing that would change the balance of KERS versus non KERS, a reduction in the cornering disadvantages, as this is what would sway the championship to a KERS car next year IMHO if the system does get used.
Can you not get your head round the concept that it is both an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time but that only the disadvantages are changing or something mate?
I honestly cant see why you are reading that statement the wrong way TBH, it reads clearly to me.
They are also advantaged on the straights, but that advantage wouldnt be changing next year, so I stuck to only mentioning the thing that would change the balance of KERS versus non KERS, a reduction in the cornering disadvantages, as this is what would sway the championship to a KERS car next year IMHO if the system does get used.
Can you not get your head round the concept that it is both an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time but that only the disadvantages are changing or something mate?
I honestly cant see why you are reading that statement the wrong way TBH, it reads clearly to me.
I honestly dont see why you cant read what you wrote and understand how it looks.
20-10-2009, 11:41 AM
#146
this is my take on how kers should be used next year and how it would be an advantage to both development( what f1 is ''supposed'' to be about'') and performance,
now this year kers was 80hp for 6 seconds or there abouts, what i would have liked to have seen is with the introduction of no re-fueling for them to life the limits on kers use.
it would have been a fantastic way to get development into kers as if you could regain more and more then you can start with a lighter car.
problem is i guess the big teams would always be at the front
i love the idea thou lol
now this year kers was 80hp for 6 seconds or there abouts, what i would have liked to have seen is with the introduction of no re-fueling for them to life the limits on kers use.
it would have been a fantastic way to get development into kers as if you could regain more and more then you can start with a lighter car.
problem is i guess the big teams would always be at the front
i love the idea thou lol
20-10-2009, 11:42 AM
#147
Because they race down straights as well as corners, or can you not get your head round that mate, and you just said as I quoted endlessly already 'disadvantaged' with no caveat about corners or straights, just plain disadvantaged, which they arent
I honestly dont see why you cant read what you wrote and understand how it looks.
I honestly dont see why you cant read what you wrote and understand how it looks.
spiky with alot less than 200 can lap in the same time
corner speed is ALOT more important to lap time than straight line speed,
20-10-2009, 11:44 AM
#148
Because they race down straights as well as corners, or can you not get your head round that mate, and you just said as I quoted endlessly already 'disadvantaged' with no caveat about corners or straights, just plain disadvantaged, which they arent
I honestly dont see why you cant read what you wrote and understand how it looks.
I honestly dont see why you cant read what you wrote and understand how it looks.
Advantages : quicker on straights when delpoyed
Disadvantages : weight distribution on corners is majorly effected
KERS 2010
Advantages : quicker on straights when delpoyed
Disadvantages : weight distribution on corners is minorly effected
The advantages havent changed at all, so I didnt feel them worth mentioning in a debate about how the rule changes for 2010 will effect if KERS is worth having or not on balance.
I made the assumption that people talking about KERS in this thread would realise without me needing to point it out that it helped on the straights, I just took that as a given, I didnt mention the cars have wheels either as I figured people would know that too.
You seem to be just desperate to "prove me wrong" purely for the sake of it, and so much so that you are actually blinkered to the fact that what I said made perfect sense IMHO
20-10-2009, 11:47 AM
#149
............
Well in this case, Mclaren state that they can get up to 4 tenths of a second net advantage from KERS so i dont think it affects the corner speed as much as the straight line speed as much as is being thought, or there wouldnt be a net benefit would there?
20-10-2009, 11:50 AM
#150
You dont seem to grasp the concept that KERS has taken time to head towards that theoretical .4 seconds advantage, and that during that time, the season was lost!
So the net effect for the season, was it was a disadvantage this year it would appear.
When it next appears though, im sure we all agree it will be an advantage.
Last edited by Chip; 20-10-2009 at 11:51 AM.
20-10-2009, 11:53 AM
#151
............
KERS 2009
Advantages : quicker on straights when delpoyed
Disadvantages : weight distribution on corners is majorly effected
KERS 2010
Advantages : quicker on straights when delpoyed
Disadvantages : weight distribution on corners is minorly effected
The advantages havent changed at all, so I didnt feel them worth mentioning in a debate about how the rule changes for 2010 will effect if KERS is worth having or not on balance.
I made the assumption that people talking about KERS in this thread would realise without me needing to point it out that it helped on the straights, I just took that as a given, I didnt mention the cars have wheels either as I figured people would know that too.
You seem to be just desperate to "prove me wrong" purely for the sake of it, and so much so that you are actually blinkered to the fact that what I said made perfect sense IMHO
Advantages : quicker on straights when delpoyed
Disadvantages : weight distribution on corners is majorly effected
KERS 2010
Advantages : quicker on straights when delpoyed
Disadvantages : weight distribution on corners is minorly effected
The advantages havent changed at all, so I didnt feel them worth mentioning in a debate about how the rule changes for 2010 will effect if KERS is worth having or not on balance.
I made the assumption that people talking about KERS in this thread would realise without me needing to point it out that it helped on the straights, I just took that as a given, I didnt mention the cars have wheels either as I figured people would know that too.
You seem to be just desperate to "prove me wrong" purely for the sake of it, and so much so that you are actually blinkered to the fact that what I said made perfect sense IMHO
20-10-2009, 11:57 AM
#152
If so, then we will have to agree to disagree, as I believe (and the results appear to as well) that this year KERS was a net disadvantage when viewed over the season as a whole.
Sadly because of the DDD there is no real way of telling though if the first half of the season was blighted only by a lack of that for mclaren and ferrari or also by KERS introducing issues as well.
The DDD advantage was so great, it overshadows KERS vs non KERS, and its the DDD that largely made button win, so im not going to try and argue that just cause a non KERS car won it definitively proves my point like some folk might, as I am not prepared to say something that I dont beleive to be correct just to try and win an argument on the internet, that would be very sad, I just stick to my honest view as always, which is that I dont think KERS was an advantage this year.
Sadly though its a fairly pointless argument, as there is no way of getting a definitive answer, only opinions.
Last edited by Chip; 20-10-2009 at 12:00 PM.
20-10-2009, 12:04 PM
#154
Jenson in a clearly better car romps away with half the season, then ends up winning at the end despite no longer being competitive, I would have sooner see a battle to the last race between a couple of deserving drivers than one have it wrapped up before season end just because of an unprecentedly good season start.
still, at least it was a brit who won, however it happened
20-10-2009, 12:21 PM
#155
............
Better than someone in a clearly better car romping away all season with his team mate and noone getting a look in IMO
Theres been a lot of different winners this year and a lot of teams being competitive rather than just two
I think the one great rule change that affected this season massively that no one ( on PF at least ) has talked about is the tyre rule, saying you HAVE to use both compounds......its been a great equaliser
Theres been a lot of different winners this year and a lot of teams being competitive rather than just two
I think the one great rule change that affected this season massively that no one ( on PF at least ) has talked about is the tyre rule, saying you HAVE to use both compounds......its been a great equaliser
20-10-2009, 12:25 PM
#156
Im not really sure that romping away for half a season in a clearly better car then being a bit pants for the last half really makes for more entertainment, its nice to see someone winning who is still quick in the second half.
Thats very true actually
Maybe, I personally still feel their should only be 2 rules in f1 though like Ive mentioned before, but that'll never happen!
Theres been a lot of different winners this year and a lot of teams being competitive rather than just two
I think the one great rule change that affected this season massively that no one ( on PF at least ) has talked about is the tyre rule, saying you HAVE to use both compounds......its been a great equaliser
20-10-2009, 02:09 PM
#157
PassionFord Post Troll
