Lee Reynolds

Do you think it is worth complaining to Royal mail about this or would i just be wasting my time!

What it is.

Royal mail have possibly cost me, or should i say my business 45k. We came recommended for a job in May this year, an extension. We went out and looked at it and said we would get them a price within 2 weeks - usual procedure. Did the quote, posted it. Then after about 4 or 5 weeks we thought we must not have got the job. We never call potential customers as we dont want to seem like we a pressuring.
Today i received a large envelope from Royal mail with a return to sender thing on it. I opened it up and to my disgust there is my quotation, with its original envelope! The original envelope has a sticker on it saying Addressee unknown and this is dated the 27th may! If they had returned it to me then i could have hand delivered it and probably got the job! I know its not a certainty that i would have got the job, but its very rare if we have come recommended that we dont get it! Plus, the potential customers probably now thinks we couldn't be arsed to quote them which is shit as we rely on word of mouth for our work Useless tossers! Not wasting my breath with them though if its not worth it

Anyone had anything similar? Is it worth taking it further?

Retro Al

iTrader: (1)

Theres a few reasons that it was returned, maybe the owners moved away,or maybe that it was addressed wrong,i used to get loads of letters with the wrong numbers ect, normaly you get the customers running after you when you have posted it to say nobody lives here with that name so you have to return it to the sender,and yes sometimes the customer leaves the letter for months before handing it back to the postman or reposting it
The other one is the postie may have posted it in the wrong house and they have kept hold of it to long
I worked for royal mail for 8 years,and if you complain you will probably get a free book of stamps

Spax

Thats normal procedure, they call them dead letters and normally take 6-8 weeks to return them to senders, have u checked the address is correct? seems wierd they'd sign a letter up for no reason?

Lee Reynolds

The address is the same as the drawing i have!

Al, No one kept it for so long, as like i say, it has a sticker on it dated the 27th of May! The address exists, ive been there, and its on the drawing thats been to the council to be passed for planning!

Jim Galbally

no point complianing, thats how normal 1st class mail works. send recorded if you want a guarantee on delivery

Retro Al

iTrader: (1)

Did you have a return address? if not its goes to ireland were they are allowed to open letters to find out the senders address id ect
But anyway if it was addresed correctly it should have been delivered,by all means ring customers services

youngben

iTrader: (2)

there to busy on fookin strike! i posted a cheque 12 days ago now and it still hasnt got to the bank! there useless! they dont deserve the business emails has taken from them as there attitude when something goes missing is tough $h1t

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Im afraid that not sending a tender worth Ł45K by a recorded service was a massive oversight mate.

Lee Reynolds

Never had a problem in the past with any mail so have bever even considered doing this TBH Stu.
And in future, i shall be delivering such tenders by hand, im not overpaying Royal mail to deliver me something they should deliver for the price of a 1st class stamp!


Ah well, thanks for the input guys, sounds like its not worth complaining. Its not whats happened, its how long its taken it to come back to me thats pissed me off! Yes its been to Ireland so no wonder its taken so long LOL
Luckily we are busier than ever and not getting this job hasnt affected us, but it could have Going to drive by on Monday though and explain what happend to the guy at the house jus so he knows we didnt just not bother

Iain Mac

For local deliveries you may have an argument that says Royal Mail is overpaid for delivering something for the price of a first class stamp, but even at that I'd say a mile or so is about as far as you could drive yourself for the money. If you want to walk, how low do you value your time?

The worst thing that happened to the Post was the government allowing limited competition where DHL or whoever can do the trunking, then depend on RM to do the expensive bit of getting it to the individual address at the end for less than the price of a stamp.

If competition is good, it should be on an even playing field so each company does the whole thing themselves or pays a subcontractor an agreed rate, not allowing one party to set the price that the sub will get.

Benni

Sorry to hear this. Gutted for you.

Benni.

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Lee what I do is send a written quotation out to my customers and also a copy buy email.

9 times out of 10 the customer then automatically always replies to the email. I swear its got me some jobs id other wise not have got in the past, as its a very subtle way of pushing the quote.

Ive even had a few and got one regular customer who pay my via the internet banking. One guy who pays me monthly ive never even met.

Quotation as originally done buy email and all correspondance is buy email also. I dont even know what he looks like

Im guessing the 45k is turn over and not all profit, as then I would be mad.

But basically royal mail are not legaly responsible here, as has been said if you want 100% gurantee go recorded/special delivery. Try the email mate, one of the best things ive done for my business.

Lee Reynolds

LOL Is that who you do gardening work for i assume Lee?

Ive never done anything by internet/email tbh. One thing we pride ourselves in is our personal interaction with all our customers and have built up some good relationships in the past with them, some even becoming friends.

Benni, nah mate dont worry about it like that, we price X amount of jobs every year and dont get them, you dont win them all, it's the principal of this thats the annoyance! Its not the not getting the job, as in all fairness, as we are, we couldn't fit it in! As ive said before, What recession? The last 18 months has been our busiest period while many small builders have folded - proofs in the pudding i guess

Iain, i know what ya saying mate, but we are always out and about locally and are bound to pass the place or be near to the place where the potential job is, so can post easily.... but as said to Stu, this is the first time ive EVER had trouble with them...business or personal!

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Sort of hes owns a business park in the village, so building maintainene. Im doing a quote at the mo to terrace the back of the farm house and install a swiming pool. Not sure if its business use tho

Lee, I see Email as more personal than a letter. Still go see them and do the usual stuff, but seriously try email see how you get on.

Its very personal I find, you and they nearly always get a reply so nothing gets lost or over looked, and also its very handy way of keeping track. As every conversation is basically recorded in black and white!

I too am very one on one, you need to build up a rapor and relationship with a customer its very important.

In fact had a customer round last night, put new roofs on their 400 year old barns about a year back.

All oak trusses and about Ł70k worth of reclaim double camber peg tiles.

Cooked them pizza in "the hut" and all got very drunk. even had my guitar out

callums

if your going to see the man on monday to explain why not take it by hand in the first place

Lee Reynolds

Erm, cos i post quotes out! Whats hard to grasp about that?

Sounds like you had too many if the guitar came out Lee

You have a good business and couldnt afford my 300 quid drumkit...tight arse

POPEYE

I always Email lee. Just make sure you send it as a PDF

Ginge !

lee ive found that some customers tend to prefer there way of comunication,,,, as in at work i have customers who send faxes for orders,,, others who send emails and others who do it via the phone,,,,, just like the replys some prefer emails, some want us to fax the reply and some call,,, even if they ordered another way

the other lee is spot on about the subtle nudge as i do this after i speak to a potential customer on the phone and dont hear from them,,, some people dont like to be called back yet a friendly email can get a chat going and sometimes a order that was due to go elsewhere,,,,,,, though i also cold call customers whos spend drops alot to see if there still alive and say to them " glad everythings fine as i thought you stopped spending cause you found out ive been knobbing your wife",,,,, though 2 times so far ive had " well we have just seperated" which,,,, well takes some back tracking

ps: i had a letter yesturday that had a card inside it for " we tried to deliver but nobody was home" dated on the 18th,,,,, thing is my parents have been at my home waiting in all week for this parcel as i needed it to finish my bathroom,,,,,, now if they tried to deliver and nobody was home why did they send the card back through the post,,,,,,took 3 days for me to get this why not drop the card in at the time i wasnt home ?????

my thought is that they NEVER tried to deliver it at all but forgot it or was just a lazy cunt as it dont make sence

either way ive paid royal mail for a parcel and ive had to fucking collect it,,,,, and waste a week of my parents lives waiting in for the fucking thing

Lee Reynolds

Ginge, maybe one day ill look into emailing the quotes out as well as a written one, but like with my building techniques, i prefer the traditional method of working. However, i doubt VERY MUCH the old couple i was quoting had a PC or access to one!

fuzzy

complaining will most likely lead to the "loss" of more of your future mail and not achieve you much anyway apart from a possible book of first class stamps as compensation.

Ginge !

lee i understand what you mean but your a business man, you HAVE to move with the times or be forgotten about

the internet is a important thing now. just like owning a telephone, then owning a answering machine,, they owning a mobile phone ect ect ect

you move with what ever tools are there to help you,,,, would you still use a drill with a lead and a extension on site or a decent cordless with spare batterys,,, do you still use a screw driver or a drill with a driver bit fitted ?

can you imagine how much trade Stu@msd would have if there was no internet based business things he could do,,,, or imagine he never bothered with learning about electrics


theres still some garages who refuse to buy diagnostic machines and perfer using the old ways of faukt finding,,,,,, then then get a demo and plug one in and see just how much time it saves for the same job

fuzzy

obviously certain things work in certain games but a builder doing work with mainly older people wont really need cutting edge technology. the old ways still work and are more personal to older generations.

Ginge !

fuzzy thats why you have MORE than one way, as said i have a fax machine beside me, a franking machine on the other side, 2 phones on my desk and a computer,,,, i do orders and quotes and reply in anyway the customer wishes, there was a time when the idea of a garage having a computer was unheard of,,,,, i remember garages complaining about the computer MOT system saying " why do i need to learn how to work a computer to repair cars

now look,, they use them now and keep a record of part numbers to check there prices aswell as what the filters are used for,, its actually helped them out and now they can get reminders out to customers when there cars are due in for services,,,, before it was thought of as pointless technology for a old fashioned business

bungo1608

Yes its been to Ireland so no wonder its taken so long LOL

hey!!easy fella..we don't all drive horse and carts over here you know..

wouldn't think complaining would get you anywhere to be honest mate..possibly a friendly follow up phone call to the potential customers would work just to check they got the quote but tend to agree you don't want to sound pushy.

i'm a self employed car dealer and sometimes do follow customers up but only if it seems appropriate as i agree about not hassling folk.

just be glad you have plenty of work lee and move on although i think if it was me i would pay the extra quid for the signature on delivery..

Lee Reynolds

LOL @ Bungo, i didnt even think you had progressed to horse n carts!

Lee Reynolds

LOL Well,

rich went today after work to see them, phoned me up they werent in but the work had been started. Said it didnt look too bad but brickwork was a bit messy! Anyways, just as he was leaving they pulled up. So explained the situation, and the old guy thanked him and said 'we did give you a couple of more weeks to get the quote to us too'' DOH! So, Rich showed him our quote and just asked him how it compared to those who were doing the job, he said ever so slightly higher but its likely we would have got the job! Ah well, id be pissed off if we werent so busy, but imagne if we'd got nothing on!

Yes, medium tenders like these upwards will now go out recorded! Like all things is life, you learn by your mistakes!

Ginge !

lee update on my situation,,, my second fucking parcel also aint been delivered and a " sorry we missed your" card posted 1st class again,,,, complaint has been made but fuck all is gonna happen im sure

Dangerous Malcolm..

Okay, just my little input.... Firstly, for whatever reason, the postie killed the letter off (RTS). Because there was no senders address it was shipped off to Ireland where they open the mail to find a senders address to return it.... Yes it said the 27th May on the sticker, that was the date the postie killed it off, it then went on it's merry way with MILLIONS of other letters to Ireland to be checked. So it's no wonder it took a while to get back to you, it's a FREE service done by humans by hand.........

Ultimately you NEED to speak to the sorting office whose postie killed it off to find out why. There should in theory be the posties initials on the sticker too!

Retro Al

iTrader: (1)

Always have a return address on the reverse,you would have got it back a lot sooner!

morph

iTrader: (1)

At first i felt for you, but after reading that you didn't send the quote recorded which still does not gaurantee delivery only special delivery does you have no chance what so ever to claim against RM.
like a few people have said internet/e-mail is the way and if you say you like to give people that personal touch/interaction then i dnt see why you are not backing that up with a courtesy e-mail or even text-mail or fascimle?
You may not be suffering with your business now but proofs in the pudding with things like this happening, just imagine how many quotes have actually gone astray and not come back to you? if you dont feel the crunch now that doesn't mean you wont in a years time!

Lee Reynolds

Not being funny mate but i dont wanna be felt for I/we are doing fine without being 'felt for'. Ive never said once i want to claim against RM, i said is it worth complaining! What, do you think i thought they might give me the 45k for losing it me ?

Losing this job will NOT effect me in a years time mate as we as a small builder can only take so much on anyway! We have two large extensions on the go at the moment, we are building one and we have contractors doing the other! Any more than that would be too much i dont want that stress!

Like ive said, you learn from your mistakes! All quotes will go out recorded, and maybe a polite follow up call if we dont hear anything afterwards!

Ginge, ive had the sorry we missed you cards through the door when ive been in

Retro Al

iTrader: (1)

Trust me when i say this,there is no point what so ever in the postie NOT knocking on your door,and theres no way he would just stick a note in without knocking(apart from when there is a charge for the letter due to not enough postage as we are not allowed to take cash of the customer on there doorstep)
For a start its more work to put a note in the door then get back to the office and sort the item/parcel out ready for it to be collected,its so much easier to deliver the item
You may have been in the loo or something?
I dont work for them now and there is no way i would stick up for them
The time i spent as a postman 99% of the lads do a realy good job to get your mail there,and you wont believe how many letters they get with no door numbers,or even the wrong street ie 99 broughton crescent instead of 99 broughton road
I had a special delivery once which was addressed to(example) mr pye moss lane ....... no house number or house name,there was 6 familys with the same surname on this road,i went to every one and asked if they were expecting a sd,i didnt have to knock i could have killed it off address incompleate
Yes there are some cunts who do manage to get in royal mail and end up stealing mail, not delivering items when they should be ect

Ginge !

lee these where actually POSTED as in placed into a envelope, franked and put in a mail mans sack and posted a few days after
they wasnt posted through the door when they "tried" to deliver the parcels,,,, both times might i add !!!!

they didnt fucking attempt to deliver it,,,,,, i know this for sure as BOTH have been sent via the mail to tell me nobody was home,,, but my parents are retired and looking after my little one waiting in for the fucking post to arrive

Ginge !

2 seperate parcels have not been delivered and the " we tried to deliver but we missed you" was placed INSIDE A ENVELOPE AND POSTED IN THE MAIL TO US, both items are taken to a post office that is 3 miles away even though there is one 200 metres from my parents house AND the main sorting office is 3 streets away aswell !!

and whats the odds on my mum, dad AND my daughter being on 2 toilets,,,,,,, as for not hearing the door my parents have a loud door bell due to my mum being deaf in one ear,,, my daughter and father is not deaf though

tell me why it was posted via the mail if they was at my door and nobody answered,,, surely its more hassle than just posting a card through the door not to mention wont take 3 more days for us to recive the letter

the fact its happend twice too with the only 2 parcels i have sent via royal mail to me YET i have recived other parcels and soon as the mail arrived my old man phone me to tell me theres a parcel for me at the post office cause,, being retired he sort of has a routine of getting up reading hes papers then wait for the mail, then calls up people on the phone who are busy working ( like me and my sister) till he finds something on tv he wants to watch

Retro Al

iTrader: (1)

Never heard of the procedure of putting them in envelopes! they must have differant ways of doing round your way, its a sackable offence were i worked if we delayed any mail

TurboShed

Royal Mail standard post is a "best effort" endeavour, as said it's not guaranteed unless you pay the extra for recorded or whatever.