st3v3

My wives car just failed on a few things, 3 of them being, 2 wrong colour indicator bulbs and also washer water-frozen

Ok so i went to 2 other MOT stations and they said absolutely no problem with bulbs and the washer water was in their eyes a load of tosh.

Thoughts please?

SOO

if it is emitting a light other than it should be it would be a fail,and if the washers aint workin it will be too,tbh the indicator bulbs they could prob let slip but it depends on the tester/how bad they are

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

all failable items im afraid, the tester did nothing wrong

Eagle

iTrader: (2)

but the tester could have just sorted the issues and charged you for doing so ...

sorry but to the average member of the public it seems like a loose effort to get another retest fee


is it not an offence to have no fluid in your washer bottle ...
hmm see that one goto court


agreed, but was it a case of the tinted lamp had just flaked off some orange? ... again see top reply.. seems some places are too eager to make money by doing mot's to the letter of the law rather than using common sense...

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

i would be more upset if ANY garage did any work to my car without getting my permission first.

the car was booked for an mot, not repairs

having inpoertative washers is an mot failure, the tester is only doing what he has to, simple really

Do you really expect the tester to say "ahh well, it will be ok this time" and risk loosing his mot licence and potentially his job? these sorts of failure items are EXACTLY the type of faults we set as incogs. and we do take people licences off them.

i recently had a memo from Vosa hq, stating frozen washers should be a failure, as they are inoperative and it is up to the presenter of the vehicle to make sure these items work before the test

Lloyd

all the items where a mot fail. had the washer and bulbs been sorted during the test,and it was seen by a vosa person,the mot station could lose its licence.

if the police stop you and your washers are not working,for any reason, you will get one of those rectification tickets.

Eagle

iTrader: (2)

ok ...true ..

but ... i would soon go elsewhere and tell everyne i know that they are a pain for mot's .. how much money will they loose buy people going somewhere else..

im not saying that they should let stuff go .. but an mot is worthless in some respects as in reality its only really valid for the time it was inspected..

how many times have people driven cars lorries etc with frozen washer lines or even jets first thing in the morning.. does that make them not road worthy? so the next time its cold and frozen outside and you have to drive to work .. dont forget to tell your boss .. sorry can't come in untill my washers have unfrozen

stevieturbo

So if the vehicle is left with the garage testing it, then the frozen washers are their fault, and the garage operator needs a good slap ?

It is an offence to have inoperative washers.....but given the weather extremes, it would take a total retard to pursue the matter.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

completly different regulations im affraid.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

the washers are not working= fail.

the tester needs to do no more diagnoses than that.

look at it the other way, the car is being submitted for a mot test, surely it takes a "retard" to do that with inoperative washers?

how does the tester know when they defrost they will work? ive seen plenty of hoses and bottles split due to the expansion of ice forming.

stevieturbo

In all seriousness...if that was all my car was to fail on, in these weather conditions....the testers nose would start bleeding.

Even more so if the car was left in their care to carry out any test.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

if you submit the vehicle for test with inoperative washers, how could you expect a pass? they dont work...

if the vehicle was left overnight at the garage THEN you may have a case against the garage, as it would be there responsibilty to ensure this has not happened, but it would still fail the test.,

when a tester conducts a test, they are working on behalf of VOSA, so whatever the garage have done, or havent done ,doesnt matter, the test is the same every time.

it may seem harsh, call it what you like , its the law.

giving the tester a bloody nose for doing his job? i think you would be quite upset when you realised how serious that was.

Eagle

iTrader: (2)

exactly my point .. we dont know any other info except the first post ..

yeah the law is an arse at times ...

i had a garage physicaly break the washer stem due to the heavy handed "boy" they had working there... i saw it happen, but they stated it was already broken when i arrived, even though one of their mechanics had looked at the car earlier (and no it wasn't him)..
it failed on that the washers didnt work and i had to pay to get the stalk repaired ...and a retest fee.... hardly fair but thats the law and the way it was.
so now goto another place where they ask if it needs lamps etc do you want us t fit them at the time ... would rather pay them the fulll fee than someone else to be a sad sack...

Aaroncast

like it or not!!-------garages are looking for faults and making them to boost income!!
if they havnt much on !! they have when you turn up!!!!!!!! especialy with a few days left before the m.o.t runs out-----
ive seen garages renewing discs-why?? because they get paid for the new ones and weight the old ones in due to the past metal prices!!!!!-------------
yes youve guessed it -the old ones where ok!!!
i know i deliver parts!!!!!!!!!!!!-and when metal was at its peak so was the orders for metal products----------
i can hear the garage owners now-------------NOT ME M8 !!!!!!!!!

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

you cant possibly "look for faults" as you call it on an mot...you test to the manual

everything that fails must be backed up.

if something fails its because the manual says it does.

if test stations are doing otherwise then report them.

doing work with the owners concent is slightly different than mot problems, its nothing to do with the test at all.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

i think most people dont realise how hard it actually is too fail a car on a mot!!you be shocked about what i can panda!

excursion

There's a common sense appraoch, and there's following the law to the letter which is being described above. Failing for frozen washers is simply rediculous; a polite "make sure you refill with screen wash/antifreeze' is all that's needed.

I wouldn't use a garage that failed for such an item, and I'm fairly confident a lot of other people wouldn't either.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

i agree 100% mate, the mot standard is very very low.

this is why it amuses me when people think a "mate" is doing them a favour by letting them pass.

if its an mot failure, its in need of replacement/repair NOW!

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

It is not as easy mate!Remember its the tester that gets buggered not the company!!How is the tester not to know its a VOSA car or that the owner will not get pulled for a road side test just down the road etc!I am issuing a legally binding contract!

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

dear lord. it isnt hard to understand is it?



do the washers work? no

so it fails simple.

how does the tester know the washers will work when they are filled up/defosted?

its a test! and they didnt work AT THE TIME OF TEST!


so you expect an mot tester to put his job on the line for you? because you couldnt be bothered to make sure the washers work before the test do you?

i give up, most of the people on here clearly have no idea how the mot system works. and expect a favor from everyone.

excursion

I'd expect the tester to take the pragmatic approach; is it evident the rest of the vehicle is well maintained and safe? If the car passes with the exception of something like a bulb and frozen washer jet then I would expect a pass with advice or, a telephone call asking if I wanted the work carried out.

Any other approach is alientaing the customer and risks the relationship between garage/customer at the expense of something that ultimately has little affect on saftey. If it's cold enough to freeze the bottle or jets in a garage, they're going to freeze up within a mile on the open road. This is the common sense and pragmatical approach which has been lost in favour of following the letter of the 'law'. The prime reasaon most people can no longer stand the traffic police.

There is the law, and the sensible interpretation of it in view of the wider picture.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

that isnt how the test works though

the tester cant make his own fucking rules up as he goes along


the only "approach" he has, is the one he is working to...the mot approach.

he is working to the law...it may not suit you, but thats the fact, like it or not.

It up to YOU to make sure the car is up to standard BEFORE the test


sure you can get a call to see if you want it fixed...AFTER THE TEST!

tabetha

I totally with Jtech on this one, doesn't take a genius to put neat washer fluid in bottle to stop this.
My mot person I ask before going to MOT if unsure about anything, my rear arb was not connected when it needed mot, so he said take it off, it does not have to have one, but will fail for one fitted but not connected.
There have been instances around here of vosa stopping cars immediatelt they leave a garage, going straight back on same ramps etc and redoing mot to see if it's been done properly.
The tester as said by jtech is not allowed to use common sense, he has to go by the book, and I don't blame him, it's his arse at the end of the day.
tabetha

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

Thank god

kosman

i agree with jtech aswell,that said i dropped my car off with no water in washers other week,(long story big rush) they topped em up they didnt work,he rang me said it had failed on that and i got a mate to stick a new pipe on,went back proved they worked and he passed it,no extra charge.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

^^^^^^as simple as above^^^^^^^^^^^^

st3v3

right ive had the bulbs out and they are not flaking in any shape or form,none what so ever, even when i compared the two of them to a spare i had,they were NOT tinted or discoloured.

Washer bottle being frozen, well he did put some hot water in the bottle to defrost the water and it did so and they work 100% but he still gave it a fail,EVEN though the washer was working after the frozen water had melted.

Oh and im not a retard as some have indirectly put it.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

i can see your point mate but the tester does not know why its not working as that not part of the test,he only knows that they aint working at the time of test!so at the end of the MOT he has to issue a VT30 not too say he could not of rang you got the autho to have a look,if it was something simple then could of prs the vehicle

stevieturbo

Are MOT testers here turning into twathead cops ???


A little common sense and discretion, goes a long way....some people seem to forget that.
Perhaps they are just greedy for cash ??

And given some of the cars I have seen come from England to here, with full MOT's...you guys sure as hell arent ones to rant and rave about how safe and secure your MOT system is there.
Windscreen washers are the least of the worries.

In some ways, an open flexible MOT like you guys have on the mainland would be good over here. But after seeing this thread, and how MOT failures can generate so much profit for the garage...I'm inclined to think the government run setup with fixed test centres here is a much better system.
Yes, they do occasionally fail on minor things, but as there is no financial gain for a tester to fail a car....it will at least make for a more honest test.

st3v3

ok washer bottle frozen, i can see the errror of my ways.

How about the indicators then???

RS20004x4

exactly, you took the car in for an mot test, not an mot and diagnose why the washers dont work. the bulbs unless very white could have been advised instead of failed, but the washers are definately a fail.

if it came into my place, we would do the test and then report any failure/advisory issues to the customer, its up to them if they want us to fix it or not, and there wouldnt be a retest fee if the vehicle stayed on site.

Ginge !

im with jtech here,,, if you drive a car with a frozen washer fluid on a motorway how the fuck are you gonna clean the shite off it ??

theres a reason why you can buy WINTER screenwash !!!, it dont freeze up like summer screenwash,,,,,, simple solution to that issue

the bulbs if they are giving off a white light they will be failed also,, as the indicators are ment to be amber, white flashing lights with no direction reflectors to stop startling people can also be dangerous to others on the road, hence they are tinted amber

hes job aint to make sure the car is road worthy THAT IS THE OWNERS JOB, this car with faults on them was on the road and should not be untill the issues are sorted,,, MOT's are not a yearly test to check what needs doing thats what a SERVICE is for, the MOT is to make sure the car is roadworthy

a garage cant be held responsible for the screenwash freezing up,, as they never filled it and im sure it froze up the day before and also would the next morning should the temps go low again

Ginge !

which is also a true thing, they should not charge if you get the work done by them, they only charge for retests now as they can only do a certain about of tests per day but a retest on site can be done in less time

tabetha

Just a point having used amber bulbs in the past which did flake after a while, I started using GLASS paint, from Jarrolds, £4 a tub, enough to do 100+ bulbs and this stuff stays put, though does need 24 hours to dry properly, I just colour std clear bulbs works perfect on std bulbs not halogen though too hot!!
tabetha