JokerDisco

iTrader: (4)

Struggling to decide what route to take my ERST down?

Spoke to NMS the other day they believe they can get 200bhp out of my RS.
……by having a custom made intercooler with reverse charge pipe, NMS base chip and set-up. Total Cost approx £1600.

Or

Cossie Management with bigger turbo.

Current set up is Standard Turbo, Motorsport Developments chip, -34 Actuator, K&N filter, pace intercooler, ported and polished head and magnex full exhaust.

Really don’t know what route to go down? Anyone any ideas?

Turbocabbie

I personally really like my cossie management and think its changed the characteristics of the car in terms of response

it also gives you greater scope for further improvements

coswurv

iTrader: (8)

what spec is the turbo and bottom end and how old is it.

Tim

iTrader: (1)

THATS A GOOD CONVERSION AS WELL DRIVES VERY PUNCHY

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Personally Id go for aftermarket management, such as autronic.

But im sure Karl can get it to work on the existing management.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

Your budget dictates which route to go and how much power you want.
standard intercooler requires changing minimum
What budget do you have in mind

pa_sjo

£1600 for an intercooler, chip and setup sounds a bit expensive to me. I'm sure there are more efficient ways to spend your money.

Neil@FastFord

Sounds cool but how much?...nearly 3k fitted and mapped?

Not worth it on a 200bhp RST. Fuck, that's the price of the car, for the same power as when started...ok it might be smoother etc, but you know what i'm sayin.


Of the options the fella gave, i'd look at sourcing some cheap Cossie gear on fleabay or similar, or omex or emerald as a more cost effective choice in management. Plus a decent £300 or so cooler and a £350-450 turbo. Job's a gud 'un!

200bhp out of a healthy RST is a piece of piss though. Our shed did 190 off little more than a Pro Alloy cooler and Power Engineering chip.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

On my nova, to put it on the latest autronic ecu and the latest version of software for that ecu it cost me
Ecu secondhand : 900 quid
Upgrade to 1.09 chip : 50 quid
Loom bits to make my own loom : 50 quid
coilpack : 25 quid
Mapping : some petrol

so around 2K less than your 3K quote there.


He's not talking about a new cossie ecu I assume, so may as well talk secondhand on the autronic as well.

Lots of cheaper options aftermarket wise as well, I believe JamSport will do a complete gotech drive in drive out conversion for about 1200 quid including making the loom and mapping it for example.

Neil@FastFord

KNEW you'd bite!! lol

Still 1k+ on a second hand ECU which you mapped yourself, made own loom etc....price it up as new, fitted, with mapping for me!

Playtime over, see ya'all tomorrow

but aye, Go-tech is another option. Not seen many Jamsport cars up close but i know Jamie and his work, also Sitech use Go-tech and they have similar great results with it. Plenty out there.

smila

iTrader: (1)

try oddkidd creations mate jano is a top bloke he will tell you best route cossie managment etc

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Do you want me to price up someone else driving it for you as well?
What about someone banging your mrs in the back of it?

Or is it only some of the fun you want to miss out on not all of it?

Some of you boys need to learn to get stuck in and do your own work on cars I reckon, its good fun

Shings

Why- I've had one of these conversions myself on my old RST and it was very impressive.

Reverse charge carrier £150ish
Setup/chip £300-£500
Intercooler ( I bet its one of NMS spec ones ) + fans to suit £300-£500 (been a while since I've looked at RST stuff)
Odds and Sods - Fuel, Spark Plugs, cut out bumper, plus installation etc £400 quid ???

Dont forget they're a tuner/garage and dont work for free.

I dont even know why I've given a breakdown- I am sure the chap will be aware what costs what as NMS will have explained.

Personally though I agree with the cossie managment comment above- gives better scope for more power/reliability/driveability at a later date. Popular and tried/tested conversion on RSTS.

However.. 200bhp is good and reliable in an RST after that you'll bust boxes every other week if you drive "properly"

pa_sjo

Shings- I didn't say it wasn't GOOD or that it didn't PERFORM.. I just said it's not efficient spending.

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

If you haven't the first clue on workin on your car or have got the money then nms would be the place to take it i reckon lookin at the results they get!! Personally i couldn't justify that sort of money for an intercooler and chip basically, when all but the setup is easy to do yourself. Plus i do agree about havin the satisfaction of doing things youself and with mates, saved myself thousands over the five years i've had my rst, simply couldn't afford to hand it over to a tuner with a blank cheque on the seat lol!

Mark Shead

With that set up you should already be knocking on 200hp.

Mark

xr4x4rs

iTrader: (5)

my last rst made 190bhp and 216lbs torque, std engine, cossie turbo, chargecooler, exhaust and filter running 14psi, chipped ecu, and mfi very reliable and very punchy, i loved it

200bhp isnt that hard to get out of a rst turbo

Shings

I know... no offence meant

I agree with that, but not everyone wants to do that, hence the question maybe???.... and it would be wrong of me to advise someone to do it themselves if they clearly dont seem to want to.

For example- sourced and fitted my own oil cooler to my clio track car- cost me £106 for the fitting kit with braided lines, £20 for a cooler and then oil/filter.

If I got it off the shelf from a Renault Tuner they were £180+ delivery and having done the job I'd have thought prob £100 quid labour at a garage.... but I do most of my own stuff and hence am "more effecient".

Cool

J

Neil@FastFord

Hahahaha!! SUCH a cunt!

Rather than say, yeah, buying new, fitting and mapping wouldnt be far off mate, you put that!

Chap is askin about drive in drive out conversions.....

Not, what can i buy on fleabay and mess with?

I never saw him ask about wiring looms or mapping tips etc. What you have done is bang on, but credit where its due, you are more clued up and hands on than the average forum user.

So, how much is Autronic, new, loom, fitted, mapped?

JokerDisco

iTrader: (4)

Standard Turbo
Bottom end rebuilt approx 50k ago by power engineering.
Headwork done approx 1k ago incl ported and polished head, new valves, seats etc


Dont want too much power - aiming for around 200-220bhp. budget - max probably 2k

Intercooler is custom made with reverse charge cooler incl installation and any cutting to fit flush plus all labour to set up etc

Spoke to Jano a couple of months back, if i were to go cossie management i'd be looking to source the bits myself from ebay and maybe get it set-up at his place

I'm more swayed to cossie management - seen a couple of RSTs with it on! A good friend (B16CVH off here) has it on and it runs sweet. So much better than the old MFI

Have not had it setup but I very much doubt it is pushing 200bhp. I'd say 180bhp max but it so hard to "quote" a figure just by the way it pulls on boost


THANKS FOR THE INFO

JokerDisco

iTrader: (4)

Anyone any experience with gotech management? I've heard of it but never seen it on an RST!!

marky_g

you talking 200 at the wheels

buy converting a stage 3 mfi rst to electronic management you should easy see over
230

fuk me 1 stage 1 its 186bhp (fly) all standard 1 bar boost

marky_g

jamsport were doin go tech for under 1 k fitted mapped i think, dont quote me i no its not mega expensive tho

you can get omex conversion and map from like 1300

Benni

NMS are one of the best there is on the RST. There cars are the fastest there is at the moment. If I owned one it would either go to there to APT. Christian also knows alot about them.

Benni.

Steven_RW

No need for management change.

U just need a decent intercooler to keep the charge nice n cold and a good setup. At a later date u can change ur turbo. Cossie management is going to miraculously make ur charge air colder is it?

RW

rickbartlett

1600 quid??????
uve already got a chip,so buy a big front mount intercooler(2nd hand 250ish)
and get it set up,jamsport do it 4 120plus vat IIRC.
i had a standard lump with chip air filter exhaust vernier pulley and double capacity cooler and that made 210bhp and 226lb ft torque at jamsport.
if ur engine is healthy a set up will probly take to 200bhp anyway.
if 200bhp is all u want just stick to mfi and save some cash

O.K.C

iTrader: (2)

For £1600 you could have cossie management fitted and mapped to supply the full potential of what your engine can produce. + it tidys the bay up like no other system, check out the engine bays and the fuel and vacum setups on the engines. Its more than just a management system!


http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k1...beast003-1.jpg



http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...b/DSC00120.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...N/DSC00153.jpg









Just some pics i nicked off another site.

danny.

grsford

iTrader: (3)

imo if you willing to spend that sort of money you have got to go for a change in management, it was the best money i every spent on my car was converting to cossie management, made more power, was nicer to drive, better reponse, better on feul, started better,

hth

JokerDisco

iTrader: (4)

I don't drive it very often - probably about 2000 miles a year! starts first time so not too much of an issue.

As you say it seems a lot of money on something that at the end of the day will still have mechanical injection. Having said that I only here good things about NMS and their set-ups.

Going to have a look into some other management systems such as gotech or megasquirt. aarrrrrrggggghhhh

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

Personally i'd not use cossie management for various reasons-

1. Its old hat, if you want coilpacks etc you'll have to spend money upgrading the ECU
2. You are very limited by who can map it.
3. A decent aftermarket ECU will probably do LC/ALS and lots of other features the cossie one can't do without mods.

However as mentioned above you should already be close to 200bhp? Why not just add a cooler to your existing setup? There's not much need for a live map on a spec thats been done a million times before?

JamboRS

1600 quid for that,id be wantin suked on the way out,u dont need a custom cooler for that bhp and a reverse charge carriers no adding horsepower so why pay for no bhp

buy yourself a grs cooler,stg 3 t3,as chip says fit them yourself get it set up and ull be over 200bhp easy with change to waste on fuel,jobs a goodun

Twellsie

iTrader: (1)

personally I would speak to Karl again and explain your options, he will be able to advise you better than most

grsford

iTrader: (3)

You are very limited by who can map it. < are you having a laugh

coil pack conversion will only cost you 125quid for the board and 75 for the extra loom the rest of the parts you would need to buy like coil pack leads etc for what ever ecu you use

as karl has said before in his opinion cossie managment is the best for a cvh engine

regards

It's Czech Mate

I'd go with option 1 providing you have no aspirations of a lot more power at a later date. It will be quick and punchy and relaible and wont kill gearboxes every 10 miles.

I'm sure all the cheapskates on here are the same ones filling e-bay with the plethora of 200bhp Rst's that never 'quite' seem up to it.

Karl ALWAYS delivers the goods and NMS horses do seem pretty strong

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

Don't get the obsession with using cossie management on an rst....fair enough karl knows it inside out and obviously gets great results but for anyone else doing their own conversion i don't see why you'd go down that route! All the ecu's are 2nd hand as are most of the bits people use, need brackets for crank position etc and all seems a bit expensive to me. The likes of omex, emarald etc imo offer better value for money as well as being new, and it's not llike they don't do the job lol

O.K.C

iTrader: (2)

RSTdave

So if you had another aftermarket management system you wouldnt need a crank sensor setup? Of course you would, a fixed setup like the Fiesta flywheel is not ideal either.

Basic ECU's use batch firing systems which do not require a phase sensor, when trying to get the best out of your engine these types of systems do not help. A sequential management system is by far better for many reason's.

Hence the reason that the cosworth management system works so well and for such little money.

Lets compare what you said about different management systems.

Cosworth L6 ECU £50-80
Cosworth Loom £100

Aprox prices..
Omex ECU £500
Autronic £1000
Emrald £450
Pectel T6 £1000
etc etc..

Looms custom made for any of the above £450

Now lets compare maping costs.

Cosworth £150 loads of tuners around the country

Any other ECU £300 - 500

So as for value for money i dont see your point?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

IMO a well setup MFi system will provide an easy reliable 200bhp, all you would need in addition to what you have is a front mount intercooler (GRS, Radtec etc.. and the bumper doesnt need cutting to fit either!) and a Stage 2 T3 turbo (Standard turbo cannot flow enough for 200bhp, tops out at around 180-190bhp).
That will leave you with plenty left out of your 2k budget!

crazycage

just because your engine wouldnt hold the boost (17psi) doesnt mean a standard t3 cant do it !! i have seen plenty do well over 200bhp and hold 18-19psi

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Mate you are so wrong, it's not about boost it's about flow!! Slap a T3 on a 1.0L metro and it will hold 30psi all day long, put the same turbo on a 3.2L BMW and it will be lucky to hold 5psi.......

Stu & Christian on here in addition to Chris at Torque of the devil both say that a stock T3 will NOT be able to supply enough air to make GENUINE 200bhp!!!

So that 3 professional tuners telling you! Not me!

Stu's post....
Christians coments were on a different thead but i'll try and find it..........

crazycage

no ones talking about 1.0l metros or bmws they are talking about rs turbos , and a standard t3 can do 200bhp FACT
ps it would fall apart at 30psi and the 3.2 bm would spool it up really easy.