Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Pleased with the results but now need a bigger turbo, didnt realise that a standard T3 couldnt hold 17psi beyond 4000rpm!



Going for a Stage 2 T3 as recommended by TOTD, no additional lag but will be able to hold the 17psi I want and hopefully hit around 210-220bhp!

First Run at 10psi.



Couple of video's of it on the Dyno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ_FFH9UlcA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIcu6gf44Lk


Couple more pics!

Lee_R21Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Sorry...but I disagree mate - a T3 is perfectly capable of holding 17psi all day long providing the actuator hasnt gone weak!!

Have you checked the actuator!?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Actuator is new mate (Collins -31).
If it was that, the operator (whose name i have forgotten) would have recommended i get a new actuator not a new better Turbo!
He said that a standard t3 cannot supply enough air flow over about 4000rpm to hold that sort of boost, if i had a electronic boost controller i could bleed more off before the actuator forcing it to hold 17psi but the turbo would last about 2 mins and i'd have stupidly high ACT's!
So recommended a Stage 2 T3 for the job!

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

What's the difference between a Standard T3 and a 'stage 2' T3?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Oh in addition to the above, on my way home when i was in 5th with my foot down it will hold 17psi all day long cos it doesnt get over about 4000rpm before i'm doing over 100mph and let off, if the actuator was weak the boost would drop then too

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

uprated 360 degree bearing and a bigger compressor wheel... iirc but not 100% sure.

Bottom line is it will flow more air at the same pressure but without working so hard or producing such high ACT's.

Lee_R21Turbo

iTrader: (1)

They are shit anyway to be honest! Garretts are much better!

I've had a standard T3 running & holding 21psi all the way to the 6200rpm redline on an 8v 2.0litre turbo engine! I've seen Cossies running more than that on a standard T3 aswell!

How are you currently managing to spike 17psi then? Bleed valve? Can you test the actuator with an air line to see if its setup correctly? The pre-load might not be set right!

What intercooler have you got?

I had the same thought!!!

Stage 2 T3 is usually only a 360 degree bearing. You would see identical ACTs on this than you would on a standard T3 except the turbo would last longer due to the better bearing. You will only start to see lower ACTs when the size of the turbo is increased so its not being worked as hard!

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

No bleed valve, just the Amal and actuator.
No i dont have an air line to test actuator.
Intercooler is a front mount Radtec.

Cossie T3 has a larger compressor wheel and exahust housing iirc, so would be able to hold more boost.

Stage 2 spec Turbo Techincs T3:
S152 Ford Escort RS Turbo Stage 2
Power output 160-220 BHP
Boost 10-23 PSI
7° cutback T3 turbine assembly
360° screwed thrust bearing

It's cant really argue with you because all i'm doing is repeating what i was told this morning, and they are a reputable tuner so i will go with what they say but cheers for your input.

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

I'd check the actuator tbh.

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

ŁŁŁŁŁŁŁŁ

robj20

I have a standard T3 on mine and it peaks at 18 and holds 16psi.

project rs

mines currently holding 19psi all way to redline and non of the problems your describibg and i'd never buy a stage anything t3 as for the money you could get a bigger turbo but with less lag capable of a lot more, the next problem you'll run into is fuel for the added psi then they'll say you need a 5th injector blah, blah, blah and it'll cost you x

JesseT

A standard S1/S2 T3 will hold upto 2bar (30psi) boost for 4000rpm no problem. Been there and done that myself. Very much not recommended though. My turbo lasted for a year that way (was 20 year old to begin with) before it let go of one of its turbine blades. The new turbine set me back 100€ which wasn't the end of the world though. You will have stupidly high ACTs before the IC because you're way out of the compressor map with the turbo rpm. However a large front mount IC will take the charge air temperature down without a problem. Just scary to think what the boost pressure would have been before the IC.
A bigger T3 will make the same boost with more hp, lower ACTs, lower turbo rpm and lower exhaust manifold pressure and heat.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

hmmmm........ well if you are all holding that sort of boost then i dont understand?!
Why would they say I need a better turbo if i didnt?

Now i'm just confused!!

Maybe i will try a different actuator, but again it holds fine if i dont go over 4000rpm so it cant be that?!

Aaaaaaarrrgh!!!

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Try a better actuator first before forking out for a turbo.

How old is your turbo?

orion_crazy_carl

iTrader: (3)

I know there good tuners,but that as bit of billy bull.
as said above a T3 can easily hold 17,PSI i had my last car on the rollers holding 20psi on a T3 with no problems
the actuator u got like said above,are crap,a proper -31 is wht ya need!!!€

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Dont know mate got it second hand, but there is next to no play in the shaft, doesnt smoke etc. (i've had a few to compare), so i'd say its still got plenty of life in it.

orion_crazy_carl

iTrader: (3)

stick a actuator on it,take it back say u got a new turbo,see wht happens,lol

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Take it somewhere else and get a 2nd opinion and then go back when you are happy.

I personally dont believe for one second that the turbo won't hold boost over 4k Unless the exhaust housing might be cracked?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Thing is if it is bollocks, i fit a new actuator and all is well, i cant go back there for a setup because they will just tell me the same thing and ask why i'm back without a new turbo!
But i'll still need the fuelling setting again because it will probably peak at a slighly higher boost than it does now before settling at 17psi because the actuator will be stronger!!

SteveH

Somethings not right there...

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

hahahaha yeah!

Turbocabbie

I've held more than 17psi on a T3 with no problems, seems a strange thing to say imho

but i've got a stage 2 you can try if you want Karlos and a T34.... we still have to catch up at some time fella, could not get the day of work to come down

TurboShed

Get a second opinion from a different tuner perhaps? Isn't going to cost the earth, while a new turbo will cost the earth, ish

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

No worries mate cheers for trying!

To be honest i've been rebuilding the whole car for the last 10 months (engine, gearbox, and a complete respray) and i cant be arsed to do any more!! My funds are exhausted for now, so i think i'm just going to drive it as it is until i get some motivation/money to do some more.

Cheers for the offer of trying your Turbo's though!
Where abouts are you?

Tarren

Well Done mate

Cars a credit to you whats the spec??

cressy

iTrader: (1)

i`m selling a very good stage3 turbotechnics t3 mate pm me a offer if your intrested

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Right i'm now convinced it's my actuator! Been driving tonight and its gone from bad to worse!!
The boost does not hold at all now, car is jerking about, popping and banging, and the boost needle is flapping about like a open window in a hurricane!!

Thanks mate but all is not well now!
Spec:

Fully rebuilt 1.6 CVH
Ported & flowed head, Stainless Steel Valves
Piper 285 t2 Cam kit
Piper Vernier
Radtec FMIC Twin Spal Fans
Collins -31 Actuator (most probably fucked!!)
Samco Hoses
K&N Filter
Rally Designs Short Shift Kit
Cossie Brakes all round
Goodridge hoses
etc.......

Lee_R21Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Also check for boost leaks mate!!

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

1st on the list before i do anything else!

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

As Lee said, and also check all vacuum hoses.

Id buy a new -31 from TT or somewhere. Let us know on an update

Tarren

Shit mate it never rains it poors sorry to hear your having probs thought after set up/tune up would be spot on

surely torque of the devil should of picked up on this if there was any probs i would give them a ring in morning mate

must admit never heard of a prob with running 20 + psi on standard t3

Not good !!!

hope you get it sorted asap mate

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

as said, not sure TOTD are on about saying it wont hold 17psi, unless the message has got misconstrued

i'd suggest taking it to power Engineering mate for a 2nd opinion

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

You chaps are all looking at BOOST here when the issues is FLOW and with a cammed, polished and ported head, i tend to agree with TOTD.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

What he said was that a stock T3 cannot flow enough to sustain 17psi of boost, that it was well beyond what the compressor map of a T3 was designed for and that i needed a turbo with a greater flow ratio and recommended a Stage 2 T3, he then went on to explain that it would flow more air at the same PSI and produce more power (something between 200 and 220bhp) and less heat, where as trying to get more out of my T3 would just create huge temperatures and as a result less dense air, less flow, with almost no increase in boost.

All of that is exactly what happens when you reach the limit of a turbo, but everyone on here says that 17psi should not be the limit of a T3 and I think they are right!

pa_sjo

As Stu says, its about flow, not boost pressure. A T3 on a 1 litre engine will just about maintain 2 bar to achieve say 150bhp, but on a 3 litre engine 2 bar will destroy the turbo very quickly...

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Stu, now thats interesting because the only other thing that came to my mind was that my head is flowing so well compared to a stock head that the turbo cant move enough volume of air to maintain the pressure i want (17psi), whereas a stock head will have a lot more restricive flow and so holding any given boost pressure will be a lot easier, which is why other people may be able to run and hold higher boost pressures!

Tarren

How did you get on mate any news?

pa_sjo

The fuelling is way too rich on that 10 psi plot...

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Well it wont hold any sort of boost above about 9psi now, the needle just flaps around and the car jerks about just like the actuator is giving up or there is a split hose.
So today i've tried another actuator, taken all boost hoses off to check for leaks, removed my dump valve in case that was leaking and found nothing!!

You spotted the AFR curve
Yes mate it was, that was the way the metering head was setup for my old engine that was running 16psi and 200bhp. I hadnt altered it when i fitted this new engine, left it to TOTD to sort out as I dont have a WB lambda or AFR gauge!