** HAMILTON deducted to 3rd place for belgium gp**
08-09-2008, 08:26 AM
#201
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Just as a point did no one else notice that at the end of the first lap Rosberg did exactly the same as Hamilton and made up a place so where is his 25 sec drive through??????
08-09-2008, 08:29 AM
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http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/26/ge...olitics-in-f1/
have a read may have something to do with the decisions
have a read may have something to do with the decisions
08-09-2008, 08:30 AM
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08-09-2008, 08:30 AM
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LOL at this whole thread.
I dont give a fuck wether or not he gained a position or not.
Lewis is british driver in a british team, we should support him just for that IMO.
In the same way, this is a Ford site and most of you cunts have a BMW
I dont give a fuck wether or not he gained a position or not.
Lewis is british driver in a british team, we should support him just for that IMO.
In the same way, this is a Ford site and most of you cunts have a BMW
08-09-2008, 08:33 AM
#206
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Raikkonen got back in the lead therefore the position was yielded and there was no need to do any more.
The overtake at the next corner was a seperate incident IMHO, Raikkonen did not have the speed, skill or balls in the wet to brake as late as Lewis. Raikkonen then deliberately drove into the back of Lewis during the corner trying to cause him to spin.
08-09-2008, 08:35 AM
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ferrari got fined... would have been better if mclaren got fined as lewis would have still had his lead and mclaren would have got the full 10 points.
still think lewis got an advantage by cutting that corner!
still think lewis got an advantage by cutting that corner!
08-09-2008, 08:36 AM
#209
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Did Raikkonen get back in the lead? yes or no?
Raikkonen got back in the lead therefore the position was yielded and there was no need to do any more.
The overtake at the next corner was a seperate incident IMHO, Raikkonen did not have the speed, skill or balls in the wet to brake as late as Lewis. Raikkonen then deliberately drove into the back of Lewis during the corner trying to cause him to spin.
Raikkonen got back in the lead therefore the position was yielded and there was no need to do any more.
The overtake at the next corner was a seperate incident IMHO, Raikkonen did not have the speed, skill or balls in the wet to brake as late as Lewis. Raikkonen then deliberately drove into the back of Lewis during the corner trying to cause him to spin.
08-09-2008, 08:37 AM
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08-09-2008, 08:38 AM
#211
Yes, but did hamilton yield the advantage gained, no IMHO he didnt, if you are a few feet behind another car at 150mph, in the tow and slingshotting out the side of him, then although you are behind him on the track, you are the one in the better position, ie you still have the advantage, as demonstrated by the fact hamilton entered the next corner in front of kimi.
Overtake at the next corner? Have you even seen the footage, they were still well and truely on the straight when hamilton got past!
Raikkonen got back in the lead therefore the position was yielded and there was no need to do any more.
The overtake at the next corner was a seperate incident IMHO, Raikkonen did not have the speed, skill or balls in the wet to brake as late as Lewis. Raikkonen then deliberately drove into the back of Lewis during the corner trying to cause him to spin.
The overtake at the next corner was a seperate incident IMHO, Raikkonen did not have the speed, skill or balls in the wet to brake as late as Lewis. Raikkonen then deliberately drove into the back of Lewis during the corner trying to cause him to spin.
08-09-2008, 08:41 AM
#212
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How can a drive through penently be given after the race has finished? 
What a load of shit!!
Lewis worked hard for the win and was the better driver in the conditions.
What a load of shit!!
Lewis worked hard for the win and was the better driver in the conditions.
08-09-2008, 08:43 AM
#214
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How annoying. 
Having watched it back many times, Kimi definitely had enough room to keep on the inside for the 2nd part of bustop, but forced Hamilton into the escape area.
Anyways, ANY advantage gained by Hamilton, was wiped out half a lap down the lines where he had to take evasive action, to avoid the Williams. Kimi got passed, while Hamilton went across the grass.
Kimi got in front of the Williams and then span it out of that corner. So surely any advantage gained earlier was irrelevant by that point?
Having watched it back many times, Kimi definitely had enough room to keep on the inside for the 2nd part of bustop, but forced Hamilton into the escape area.
Anyways, ANY advantage gained by Hamilton, was wiped out half a lap down the lines where he had to take evasive action, to avoid the Williams. Kimi got passed, while Hamilton went across the grass.
Kimi got in front of the Williams and then span it out of that corner. So surely any advantage gained earlier was irrelevant by that point?
08-09-2008, 08:54 AM
#218
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Yes, but did hamilton yield the advantage gained, no IMHO he didnt, if you are a few feet behind another car at 150mph, in the tow and slingshotting out the side of him, then although you are behind him on the track, you are the one in the better position, ie you still have the advantage, as demonstrated by the fact hamilton entered the next corner in front of kimi.
FIA dont want mclaren to win FULL STOP
08-09-2008, 08:55 AM
#219
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Yes, but did hamilton yield the advantage gained, no IMHO he didnt, if you are a few feet behind another car at 150mph, in the tow and slingshotting out the side of him, then although you are behind him on the track, you are the one in the better position, ie you still have the advantage, as demonstrated by the fact hamilton entered the next corner in front of kimi.
Overtake at the next corner? Have you even seen the footage, they were still well and truely on the straight when hamilton got past!
Overtake at the next corner? Have you even seen the footage, they were still well and truely on the straight when hamilton got past!
Hamilton gained no racing advantage from cutting the chicance, he was right behind Raikkonen coming into the chicane, he was then alongside when Raikkonen closed the door and forced Hamilton to either take to the kirb which would have caused him to slide into Raikkonen (and probably get penalised for that) or cut the chicane then yield position to be safe.
At the end of the day before the chicane he was right behind Raikkonen and after yielding his position this put him back to he same position he was before. If hamilton had come steaming into the chcane was too fast and cut it then I would agree that he was in the wrong, but he didn't and he wasnt.
08-09-2008, 08:59 AM
#221
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Yes, but did hamilton yield the advantage gained, no IMHO he didnt, if you are a few feet behind another car at 150mph, in the tow and slingshotting out the side of him, then although you are behind him on the track, you are the one in the better position, ie you still have the advantage, as demonstrated by the fact hamilton entered the next corner in front of kimi.
Overtake at the next corner? Have you even seen the footage, they were still well and truely on the straight when hamilton got past!
Overtake at the next corner? Have you even seen the footage, they were still well and truely on the straight when hamilton got past!
i have watched it over and over
08-09-2008, 09:02 AM
#222
Certainly appears that way.
By any stretch of the imagination this is at worst a tiny and irrelevant breach of the rules (irrelevant as the ferrari spun out later on anyway, and hamiltons position to all other cars on the track hadnt changed so no advantage was gained versus anyone else) and it was punished extremely harshly.
TOTALLY out of order behaviour by the FIA wether Hamilton yielded soon enough, or thoroughly enough or not.
By any stretch of the imagination this is at worst a tiny and irrelevant breach of the rules (irrelevant as the ferrari spun out later on anyway, and hamiltons position to all other cars on the track hadnt changed so no advantage was gained versus anyone else) and it was punished extremely harshly.
TOTALLY out of order behaviour by the FIA wether Hamilton yielded soon enough, or thoroughly enough or not.
08-09-2008, 09:03 AM
#223
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Yes I have seen it as I watched the whole bloody race like I do every race!
Hamilton gained no racing advantage from cutting the chicance, he was right behind Raikkonen coming into the chicane, he was then alongside when Raikkonen closed the door and forced Hamilton to either take to the kirb which would have caused him to slide into Raikkonen (and probably get penalised for that) or cut the chicane then yield position to be safe.
At the end of the day before the chicane he was right behind Raikkonen and after yielding his position this put him back to he same position he was before. If hamilton had come steaming into the chcane was too fast and cut it then I would agree that he was in the wrong, but he didn't and he wasnt.
Hamilton gained no racing advantage from cutting the chicance, he was right behind Raikkonen coming into the chicane, he was then alongside when Raikkonen closed the door and forced Hamilton to either take to the kirb which would have caused him to slide into Raikkonen (and probably get penalised for that) or cut the chicane then yield position to be safe.
At the end of the day before the chicane he was right behind Raikkonen and after yielding his position this put him back to he same position he was before. If hamilton had come steaming into the chcane was too fast and cut it then I would agree that he was in the wrong, but he didn't and he wasnt.
Go back and watch it again and see if kimi ever took that line through that corner before i think you will find he didn't and was always on the right hand side so it was an obviose block witch left hammy no other choise
08-09-2008, 09:10 AM
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08-09-2008, 09:14 AM
#225
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Or a whole lot more crashed in the side off him as kimi gave him no where to go.
Please go and watch the race again and tell me when kimi ever took the corner like that he didn't stick to a racing line he pushed hammy off!
Please go and watch the race again and tell me when kimi ever took the corner like that he didn't stick to a racing line he pushed hammy off!
08-09-2008, 09:15 AM
#226
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proberly dont help it being a mclaren and if i dare say hamilton being coloured
08-09-2008, 09:21 AM
#227
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hmm your probably right but then it becomes a technicality, drivers can cut corners to close the gap of the car infront.
08-09-2008, 09:26 AM
#229
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Actually, its got less to do with "cutting" a corner and is simply "Gaining an advantage by going of course" which may sound subtle but in the conditions yesterday going round on rougher tarmac gave Kimi a sligshot up behind Lewis, Brundle even commented about it and if it didnt then Kimi would have been a long way back and travelling slower than Lewis when he regained the track - he actually came out no further back, travelling faster, which is right if you consider he has travelled a longer distance in the same time = more speed. To confirm this you often find in qualifying that a time is discounted if it is set when BOTH pairs of wheels rather than just the outside pair go off the outer kerbing where there is astro turf/ grasscrete on the outside effectively opening up the corner !!!
Im sorry but I dont agree with this either.
If you can see the telemetry of both cars at the same time, or actually be in one of them at the time to hear and see from their perspective then you MAY be able to call it fairly clear evidence, but from a distance outside the cars and without the knowledge of what each driver is doing then you simply cant. There is absolutely no way you can confirm if Lewis lifted or otherwise and make a statement such as you did - pure supposition on your part to support your anti McLaren comments.
yes the rules are a bit fucked up and they should be made much clearer, if you gain an advantage by cutting a corner then carry on racing but be aware that you will have to come into the pits to serve a 10 second stop/go penalty regardless in the next lap or you will be dq'd from the resluts" then is that going to make things any easier?
You can blame your Ferrari driving German wunderkind for the state of the rules.
Back when Ferrari first developed their strategy of cheating for any victory they could get in 1998 Micheal finished the British GP in the pit lane to serve his stop/go penalty AFTER the final lap thus giving him a victory he would otherwise have forfeit if he had accepted the penalty in a sporting way and carried it out in race conditions.
there should be someone in the pitwall for each team telling the drivers when they have fucked up and what they should do about it
do you want bernie to have a big red light on the dash that can be switched on by him to engage the pit lane limiter so that you can't drive more than the pit lane speed?
do you want bernie to have a big red light on the dash that can be switched on by him to engage the pit lane limiter so that you can't drive more than the pit lane speed?
Either you're taking the pish or your just being stupid on purpose.
The team have this already and race engineers in contact with the driver throughout the race, who are also in contact with the race director. Now Im not saying that Ron is necessarily telling the truth, as no-one knows that for definate at the moment but he did say that they had checked with Charlie that what Lewis had done was OK and that whilst he isnt in charge of the stewards he is usully the one with the expert opinion on such rules.
Sounds like they did pretty much everything they should have but still got it in the ass !! But then thats typical for McLaren as they get shafted everytime by the FIA and particularly when in regard to Ferrari results. Thats not my opinion, its simply a statement of fact. When you add up the number of "judgement calls" over the last few years there is an overwhelming number of pro Ferrari and con McLaren decisions. Its got nothing to do with the fans of each team shouting the hardest or coming up with reasons, it is simply a case that the numbers speak for themselves, if your car is silver then you will tend to find a more severe penalty coming your way more often for what are normally less severe infringements than if your car was pony red !!
Personally Im getting sick of the whole thing which I never thought would be the case especially with Lewis coming into the fold but its just such a pathetic old soap opera now that you cant get genuinely enthused by it. Thank god for MotoGP !!
j.
08-09-2008, 10:12 AM
#231
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I don't think it's correct at all.
I can't see how he got any tow behind Raikonnen whatsoever.
After Hamilton conceeds the places, the cross the finish line side by side. They are side by side for the majority of the straight, until Hamilton jinks inside and takes the place.
People are suggesting that he drafted the Ferrari for any length of time, but if you watch the replay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGPoGQZlS0I
you can't see a tow whatsoever.
Ridiculous decision.
I can't see how he got any tow behind Raikonnen whatsoever.
After Hamilton conceeds the places, the cross the finish line side by side. They are side by side for the majority of the straight, until Hamilton jinks inside and takes the place.
People are suggesting that he drafted the Ferrari for any length of time, but if you watch the replay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGPoGQZlS0I
you can't see a tow whatsoever.
Ridiculous decision.
08-09-2008, 11:12 AM
#232
but hamilton didn't concede the place in a clear fashion, thats why there is such a fuss about it
he needed to have stopped his car, got out, put down his cape over the puddles, let kimi pass through, then got back into his chariot and blasted off in pursuit
that's the way benni hill would have done it
much better to not have any run off areas at all that are not covered in gravel and quicksand and mythical beasties to catch out the unwary drivers (and therefore create hero's from the marshalls who can go there in togao's pretending to be spatans) to add that extra spice to the driving that's getting real boring real quick
he needed to have stopped his car, got out, put down his cape over the puddles, let kimi pass through, then got back into his chariot and blasted off in pursuit
that's the way benni hill would have done it
much better to not have any run off areas at all that are not covered in gravel and quicksand and mythical beasties to catch out the unwary drivers (and therefore create hero's from the marshalls who can go there in togao's pretending to be spatans) to add that extra spice to the driving that's getting real boring real quick
08-09-2008, 11:15 AM
#234
08-09-2008, 11:21 AM
#235
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http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/26/ge...olitics-in-f1/
have a read may have something to do with the decisions
have a read may have something to do with the decisions
08-09-2008, 11:33 AM
#238
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08-09-2008, 11:37 AM
#240
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Murray Walker always used to say, “Anything can happen in Formula 1 — and it usually does.” Today it would be better to say, “Anything can happen in Formula 1.
.................................. . I . M . H . O. ...............................
This has come about because Max Mosley has politicised the sport to a poisonous degree. The FIA has created far too many ridiculous rules, making the sport more convoluted than it should be. And Max Mosley does business on the basis of personal grudges rather than what is good for the sport.
It is sad — but understandable — that people can not have confidence in the decisions made by the FIA. It is yet another sign for me that the sooner Max Mosley is removed from his post as President of the FIA the better. I. M. H. O.
.................................. . I . M . H . O. ...............................
This has come about because Max Mosley has politicised the sport to a poisonous degree. The FIA has created far too many ridiculous rules, making the sport more convoluted than it should be. And Max Mosley does business on the basis of personal grudges rather than what is good for the sport.
It is sad — but understandable — that people can not have confidence in the decisions made by the FIA. It is yet another sign for me that the sooner Max Mosley is removed from his post as President of the FIA the better. I. M. H. O.