Jay,

iTrader: (4)

it took over 5 seconds which is a delay according to theFIA

The Sludge

WELL HERES MY VIEW


first time i saw the race and one of the best ive seen since mansell/senna/prost days. This race will ultimatley be a discussion point of the season. I think its highly unfair that hamilton should be penalised.

It seems to me that Raikkonen played dirty at the bedn and tried to force hamilton off. i think this MAY have caused front suspension damage to his car which has then possibly led him to spin off. Hamilton had receeded his 1st place BEFORE the finish line, making him effectively 2nd place still.

He then overtook AFTER the finish lane making him 1st.

Id be really disappointed if any of the stewards or FIA didnt take this same view and if not, id almost say theres some massive backhanders going on. Hamilton played fair unlike ferrari as usual.

Bullett

iTrader: (2)

no mate really,kimi was inside and has the right to the corner,lewis was outside and shouldve backed out.

no dirtiness at all

AndyKam

iTrader: (2)

Wasn't Lewis on the inside of the corner? He had to cut the corner to stop hitting Kimi.

The Sludge

thats the way i saw it too

Mark_w

You are seeing it like millions of others,there are a few haters/jealous people with there heads stuck up ferraris arse that are seeing it different

mark

duffers

Isn't there a rule as to how many times you can block the driver behind you from passing? Surely Raikkonen moving once to block Hamilton passing then again straight away is an infringment of the rules? Either way, not managing to block after that, putting yourself on the wrong side of the track to block the next corner, being out broken and then hitting the man who just overtook you and shortly after binning the car surely shows raikkonens lack of ability??

Ex-Finesse

Fucking outraged!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both my Dad and I screamed "give it back!!", refering to first position, after Hamilton cut the corner.

He duly gave the race lead back to Kimi and then overtook, from behind, with an excellent piece of driving.

This decision is even more disgusting when compared to the Massa "dangerous pitlane exit" manoeuvre during the previous race.

If only I could show my true feelings......

Benni

As a Hamilton fan I would like to know if he gained anything, or would he of been just as close and been able to make the overtake as he did if he stayed behind him in the corner?

Benni.

Bladerider

Sorry,

But the biggest problem with Britain today is the sad state of affairs that we seem to no longer promote the idea that "Competition is good" and that "The taking part is what is important" which is simply the washout words of people who dont perform (and I know plenty about not performaing, believe me ) and cant bear to accept it. And the extension of this problem that couples it with this countries age old habit of bemoaning the fact we dont have anyone any good at something, finding someone who IS good at it, and building them up quickly into the best thing ever, and then promptly turning round and saying they are no good and too big for their boots, in order to knock them down again !! Which used to take a few years, but now with added media "frenziness" its simply a few days of mood changing by the press.

We've spent a decade wondering why we havent had any results in F1, and putting up with also rans like David Coulthard, Alan McNish and unlucky drivers like Jenson Button, and when finally we get Lewis Hamilton who has a pretty awesome amount of talent whether you like him or not, we over hype him because of the truly miraculous results of last year and then immediately get on his case this year because "he's still not worthy of the championship" !!

Its racing, not bowls, not figure skating, not politics (or at least it SHOULDNT be !!) its simply about who can go faster. And Im pretty sure the one thing all F1 fans have moaned about at some time or another is the lack of overtaking in the modern "Aero" era whether they are Tifosi, McLarenMad, Williams supporters or still wishing Ken Tyrrell was around. And fook me if the new lad cant overtake and then promptly there are loads of "technicalities" as to why he didnt overtake in the appropriate manner or in a way previously arranged with the management structure drafted by Mr J Todt !!

People keep saying "Are you watching the same race I did" and I am wondering if they watched the same bit I have seen too as well with a view of whats actually going on rather than if the drivers had considered how it would look on the telly !!

Lewis went for a move on Kimi at the Bustop that was 50/50 and was prepared to brave it out knowing if worst case happens he could have skipped the chicane.
Sure enough Kimi being the hard racer that he is (particularly this weekend as showed by his move on Massa at the beginning) doesnt leave room for Lewis to pass and rightly so as he had the defensive and commanding line into the corner.
Lewis sees this coming as he would have prepared for and shortcuts the chicane which effectively gave him a big advantage coming onto the pit straight.

Now I think most of us can agree up to this point, as even though Lewis did have his nose infront entering the bustop it was only because he was offline and would have had to rely on Kimi yeilding to make the move stick which therefore means he effectively wasnt in front at all !!!

At this point he knows he has to give the position back to Kimi or risk a penalty. the accepted way of doing this is to give the position back and has been done dozens of times in dozens of races, and as Ron said on the coverage they even checked with Charlie Whiting that this had been done as per the rule book.

The issue people are arguing about was if ENOUGH of an advantage was given back to Kimi with people stating that Lewis got a tow down to LaSource and hence regained an unfair advantage enabling him to pass straight away. But I am afraid that is cobblers - watch the footage and you will see that he doesnt stay behind Kimi he stays BESIDE him and gets out the throttle before the start/finish line.
You need to stay behind for a tow to happen !!
Furthermore the short pitstraight is only long enough for even F1 cars to get upto around 150/160mph and hence the tow would not really have been much of an affect at all at these relatively modest speeds for F1 and actually F1 cars are capable of accelerating with the same sort of force at 150mph as they do at 50mph !!! So this then leaves only braking as the real possibility of why Lewis could have got passed at LaSource. Watching the footage again you can see Lewis only going behind Kimi for a brief moment and this is as Kimi moves across for the racing line as he thinks he has a good margin over Lewis because of the lift that gave him back the place lost at Bustop.
THIS is how Lewis made the pass, not a tow, not an unfair advantage, not magic beans !!! Just simply that the same greasy road surface that meant he almost nabbed Kimi into Bustop on the brakes allowed to him complete the move at LaSource and in fact Kimi hit the back of Lewis' McLaren such was his lack of grip and brakes !!!

Further proof that this is simply another appalling example of favouritism towards Ferrari is that Kimi wasnt investigated for going of course later in the lap yet kept full momentum just as Lewis did last year round the outside of LaSource against Alonso. Neither of these moves required an investigation because none of them needed it, but my point is that neither did this one !!!

I truly think there should be some kinda of rulebook revamp or some structure change because currently no-one is winning as the public that pay for all this are getting increasingly frustrated and feeling chort changed and that is never good !!

Rant over, going back to my pit now !!



J.

Bladerider

Thats not true.

Massa's exact quote at the first time of being asked was "I saw the Force India and thought that he should have had to yield to me as I am leading the race and had already lapped him. I was going to lap him again anyway once out on track so was surprised when he didnt yield"

Which sounds very much like "Im in a Ferrari and should be allowed to do as I please" if you want to take a biased view or "I am more important and should have been left to carry on" if you take the unbiased view. It certainly doesnt sound like "I adhered to the rules and didnt come roaring out my pit box when I shouldnt have" which is the only option that should have prevented the drive through/25 sec penalty if you stick to the rule book.

foreigneRS

is that a copy of the official rules, or just your opinion?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqlEg19NK0

as i said in the other thread, the video learly shows lewis NOT yeilding the place bck to kimi, but kimi driving the place back from lewis

and maclaren saying that lewis lifted off and was 6kph slower than kimi through the corner, what a crock, as if joe public, or even he sewards, don't realise what a tiny bit of speed 6kpm is

what about the 2 corners he didn't go around then?

i'm not a hamilton hater, but this "cheating2 business just really fucks me off because it's always the same, they should have been booted from the championship last year, all of them, and this year and next year things would have been started from scratch again as they couldn't have stolen any ideas from anyone else

dojj

iTrader: (3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqlEg19NK0

as i said in the other thread, the video learly shows lewis NOT yeilding the place bck to kimi, but kimi driving the place back from lewis

and maclaren saying that lewis lifted off and was 6kph slower than kimi through the corner, what a crock, as if joe public, or even he sewards, don't realise what a tiny bit of speed 6kpm is

what about the 2 corners he didn't go around then?

i'm not a hamilton hater, but this "cheating2 business just really fucks me off because it's always the same, they should have been booted from the championship last year, all of them, and this year and next year things would have been started from scratch again as they couldn't have stolen any ideas from anyone else, but now it's all "fia this and ferrarri that, conviniently foegetting that they broke the rules and are getting punished for it
what if they demoted him 10 places? would oyu be happier with that?

no matter what happens, some people will never be satisfied until ferarri are no longer competeing in the f1 races

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

No Dojj. Sorry you are talking shit , all people want is a level playing field, not the FIA in massive bias towards Ferrari.

Bullett

iTrader: (2)

er no mate! right hand corner first and kimi was inside which is why hamilton went across the corner as kimi had taken his rightful racing line.that corner wasnt big enough for two cars side by side.






theres some need on here for a bg can of this tbh

pee vee

LOL Schumacher got away with 'bending' the rules like Lewis tried to, for years!

guess they aint allowing that anymore lol

Bullett

iTrader: (2)

funny thing is i dont agree with the fact they have done it this way at all but im not blind enough that i cant see why they looked into it.

if it had been kubica that this had happened to there wouldnt be this amount of argueing at all.

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...i?belgp08&6401

i signed it..lol

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Ron Dennis is to blame imo as ithink that lewis had the grunt to pass kimi on that straight and i think he was waiting for his team to sanction it rather than abiding to the give way rule

Turbocabbie

In stripping Lewis Hamilton of his victory in the Belgian GP, race stewards have made a mockery of what was once a sport...
This is not what sport or F1 is meant to be. Winning a race should be a black-and-white business. The driver of the car that crosses the line in first place is the winner and the glory is his. End of story. It is a sacrosanct principle and any violation of it can only be considered - let alone applied - in the most extreme of circumstances and with the supported of the most overwhelming weight of evidence. The results of a grand prix should be determined, like in any other sport, in its sporting arena, not in unseen backrooms by unknown officials. For that is politics, not sport, not F1.

smity

Im sorry is this not racing?

in wet weather conditions car's don't always stay on the track and as what happens in racing they were both fighting for the same piece of track kimi shut the door and left hammy to options crash in to him or avoid using the escape road (is this not the reason they have them?) he then let kimi back passed him which as far as i am conserned is what the rules state, says nothing about you need to allow the ferrari driver to then win the race otherwise you will be punished.

ITS A JOKE

Mclaren get punished

And ferrari never do

He should have just ran in him like kimi did sutil didn;t see kimi getting in trouble then

Bullett

iTrader: (2)

jesus christ are you blind! kimi's accident in monaco was that.an accident.he was nowhere near sutil when he lost it on the whiteline.you could clearly see he was out of control way befor he hit sutil.its not like he could stop it.

and no im not a kimi fan.he is a bit dull and boring imo

smity

Biggest load of shit i have ever read!

Are you on the Fia?

Is that you max?

If kimi's that quick just to take the place back off him without lewis holding back what has he been doing for the last 8 races? he forgot which one was the fast pedal?

Ive been watching F1 for years and going silverstone for 15 and this political shit is making F1 a joke

An escape road is there to escape he then give him the place back. Kimi stuffed it in the wall after that anyway

smity

Maybe so but he still cut the corner

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Lewis will still win the world championship this year fuck the cheating FIA

dojj

iTrader: (3)

that's like saying macalaren shouldn't have been docked any points when they were caught cheating
in a sport that gives you Ł30,000,000 for coming to the table with a car capable of winning a championship point, it's one fuck of a LOT of money to leave to chance

dojj

iTrader: (3)

because he was still racing lewis after lewis gained the advantage by not letting him through cleanly after he cut the corner

why is this so difficult for you lot to understand?

Bullett

iTrader: (2)

how would going round more of the track on the dirt be cheating though?he isnt cutting he is adding.

Bullett

iTrader: (2)

? how when he hit the force india is that cutting a corner? not exactly an advantage if you stop due to hitting something.

smity

So by how many miles does he have to let him through before he is able to attack the possition again?

He was fully infront of him is he then surposed to let him get around the next corner or rest of the lap?

What does it say in the rules?

smity

First corner they were all of the bloody track and no doubt gaining places if your going to penalise one you have to penalise all.

Kimi went wide on the first corner and got nice momentum and got passed massa

Its just a joke worst decision they have ever made, wonder how much max has slipped in there pockets for this one then?

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

I wonder what would have happened if it was Lewis in front and Kimi had cut the chicane and then got in front of Lewis? Absolutely fuck all

dojj

iTrader: (3)

lewis didn't give up the position, kimi took it back

that much is fairly clear from the video footage

i am fully aware that there was no where for lewis to go and there was no where for him to say "there you go kind sir, sorry to have impeded you" but on the exit to that corner, lewis was in the way of kimi and that prevented him from getting a good run out

if maclaren had said "there is the telemetry for this corner where you can see that lewis has inputed 30% throttle as opposed to 70% throttle on teh exit for 2 seconds" then i'm sure the fia will take that into consideration, but if ferrari then come up with "kimi used 70% throttle in that corner for the previous 10 laps and, due to lewis being int eh way, he was only able to use 15% throttle on the exit of that corner" that's going to be the telling tale is it not?

yes the rules are a bit fucked up and they should be made much clearer, if you gain an advantage by cutting a corner then carry on racing but be aware that you will have to come into the pits to serve a 10 second stop/go penalty regardless in the next lap or you will be dq'd from the resluts" then is that going to make things any easier?

how do you not "gain an advantage" if you cut a corner to avoid an accident other than be part of the accident?

there should be someone in the pitwall for each team telling the drivers when they have fucked up and what they should do about it
do you want bernie to have a big red light on the dash that can be switched on by him to engage the pit lane limiter so that you can't drive more than the pit lane speed?

smity

Don't get me wrong i like kimi and massa and if this had of been against them i would be saying the same thing! it was a wrong decision by the FIA

I don't think massa should have been done for the pit stop incident teams fault not his but if brunno senna was given a drive through penalty for what can only be described as the same accident then does this not show the inconsitancy of the FIA or that they let ferrari get away with more?

http://www.maximummotorsport.co.uk/2...s-penalty-gp2/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDnsITiQtrs

What do you think?

smity

I understand what your saying but i think from watching it over and over the only way kimi could get passed lewis there is if he let him passed, if he got in his way and could only use 15% throttle how did he end up infront of lewis?

steviecossie

this is a fucking joke,

was massa not supposed to get penalised at the last race and fuck all happened

smity

originally posted by dojj "lewis was in the way of kimi and that prevented him from getting a good run out"

Watch that video back and tell me where lewis was in the same line as kimi please

smity

I must say i also said that at the time of watching it that blocking two lines is not against the rules but as the FIA seem to be making them up as they go along who knows maybe any car that isn't red and wins is against the rules

smity

did you know that each race they have 3 stewards, one full time and 2 selected at each race, the full time steward is the chairman and guides the other 2 part timers, he also is a long standing pal of Max and Ferrari is one of the largest customers of his PR company